FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Mr. Ypsi]

So maybe CCIWers can help me sort this out, given your familiarity with the teams involved.  I'm a bit mystified at both North Central and Wheaton being ahead of IWU in the Top 25 poll.  IWU has the head to head over Wheaton and the favorable common opponent result over NC.  Why in the world is IWU behind both of them in the poll?

I expected Wheaton's win over NCC to push up IWU in the polls and deservedly so. I didn't expect the leapfrog.

I don't vote on the D3 poll. One possible reason may be that voters have seen Wheaton score 108 pts against 2 top CCIW points after strugggling against IWU 3 weeks ago. They may think Wheaton has "figured it out". Also, Linfield losing means there was a spot up around 11-13 and putting a team up there vs letting 'poll creep' take over may have been preferable. IWU also struggled a bit more than expected with a bottom feeder in Carroll.

[/b]

"Struggled" is a bit of a stretch.  The game was never really in doubt, and IWU led 28-7 early in the 4th.  Some of us don't think it necessary to rub opponents' noses in it (unlike Wheaton, who had already established that Millikin was totally over matched [35-0], but felt the need to score 28 more points.)

ON THE FIELD, the order is still clearly IWU>Wheaton>NCC.  Unless someone stumbles, that holds at least until Nov. 3 when NCC comes to Bloomington.

[Pat Coleman]

I'd be surprised if the relative closeness of the IWU-Carroll result swayed any voters. I suspect there's a combination of "what have you done for me lately" -- or what the most recent result is -- and the "Wheaton figured it out" storyline USee mentioned.

On the Monday podcast, Keith and I debate this and I tell everyone exactly where I have Illinois Wesleyan, North Central, UW-La Crosse and Wheaton on my ballot.

[USee]

So maybe CCIWers can help me sort this out, given your familiarity with the teams involved.  I'm a bit mystified at both North Central and Wheaton being ahead of IWU in the Top 25 poll.  IWU has the head to head over Wheaton and the favorable common opponent result over NC.  Why in the world is IWU behind both of them in the poll?

I expected Wheaton's win over NCC to push up IWU in the polls and deservedly so. I didn't expect the leapfrog.

I don't vote on the D3 poll. One possible reason may be that voters have seen Wheaton score 108 pts against 2 top CCIW points after strugggling against IWU 3 weeks ago. They may think Wheaton has "figured it out". Also, Linfield losing means there was a spot up around 11-13 and putting a team up there vs letting 'poll creep' take over may have been preferable. IWU also struggled a bit more than expected with a bottom feeder in Carroll.

[/b]

"Struggled" is a bit of a stretch.  The game was never really in doubt, and IWU led 28-7 early in the 4th.  Some of us don't think it necessary to rub opponents' noses in it (unlike Wheaton, who had already established that Millikin was totally over matched [35-0], but felt the need to score 28 more points.)

Struggled wasn't the right word. Didn't win as convincingly as anticipated is more appropriate. Again, this isn't my opinion just speculation in answering BleedPurples question.  The game was 14-7 at half against a team Carthage beat 31-0. We don't have comparative scores with the other top teams yet so it's just a data point.

I have no idea why you would even bring up Wheaton vs Millikin in this conversation but clearly you didn't watch the game or have no clue about football. I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and believe the former.

ON THE FIELD, the order is still clearly IWU>Wheaton>NCC.  Unless someone stumbles, that holds at least until Nov. 3 when NCC comes to Bloomington.

Again, this doesn't necessarily represent my opinion but some clearly think that ON THE FIELD,  UWLAX is better than IWU yet are rated way below them. So head to head matters a lot but (for some people) it isn't the "literalist" approach of all (Pat used this term on podcast). The results on the field can be confusing unless you look at them in a vaccum

Wheaton is clearly a different team on offense than who they were a few weeks back in Bloomington. Wheaton had a winning defense and special teams @IWU and their Oline was terrible. They made 2 significant changes and since then have dominated the other 2 (supposed) top teams in the conference. And  IWU's defense has not statistically dominated every other opponent they have played, yet the Thunder offense is rolling since the changes made after the IWU game. That's the "Wheaton figured it out" argument.

[USee]

Here is what IWU Head Coach Norm Eash said about the Carroll game:

"We're very happy with the win, but not satisfied with the way we played. There's a big difference in that," said Eash. "We could never grab control of the game. Special teams we still need to work on that. There are breakdowns we have to correct."

[iwu70]

The rankings mean little at this point.  All three teams are pretty good, top 25 teams.  NCC surely sank after the WC blowout.  Much depends on how these teams improve and evolve over the season and the timing of the key games.  Of course, IWU needs to improve, esp. on defense, special teams.  A big test is CC this weekend, for Homecoming, then again how much they improve for the likely showdown game vs. NCC later in the season at Tucci.   A lot of football to be played, so let's not worry too too much about 1 to 5 placements at the bottom end of the top 25, with all the impressions being largely in the view of the voters at this point.  I don't think there's all that much separation with these top three CCIW teams, even with the big point spread put up by WC over NCC.  If they play later, maybe NCC wins. 

IWU offense has been consistently good -- even in the loss to UWLaX.

Love those Chicago Bears.

Maybe Wash U the sleeper that we all should be talking about.

IWU'70

[Gregory Sager]

Some of us don't think it necessary to rub opponents' noses in it (unlike Wheaton, who had already established that Millikin was totally over matched [35-0], but felt the need to score 28 more points.)

Boy, as much as I took Mike Swider to task in the past on at least one occasion for running up the score, we are really through the looking glass when a fan of a Norm Eash team is pointing a finger at somebody else for pouring it on against an overmatched opponent.

[New Tradition]

Yeah this is massive. I had the gist right on the broadcast last night, but my math was off. Thanks for posting this!

Good job last night btw. You guys did a good job with pace, keeping the score updated and color.

Thank you much!  We're very glad you enjoyed!

[New Tradition]

CCIW camaraderie?

Sight seen.....

Aston Francis and some of his Wheaton basketball teammates sitting among the NCC basketball guys
during last night's football game.   

I remarked several times last night at the level of sportsmanship I saw on the field.  Many players helping each other up and even Wheaton db's dapping Kaminsky up when he got back on the field after leaving the field when Fox was ejected. 

To clarify, of Wheaton's two ejections last night, Kyle Fox was ejected for a flagrant foul, not for targeting. He will not miss any additional time. I thought it was a horrendous call by the officials because all he did was knock down an NCC WR running a pick play. The ball was not in the air and the hit was completely legal. It was a bad call.

Speaking of Fox's ejection, I also thought the call was trash.  I'm not sure what the officials saw, but as a LB coach, I would always teach my LBs to annihilate any WRs trying to cross the field at linebacker depth.  I'm not sure if the officials thought that Fox went low, but on the replay, the hit looked like it happened at the hip. 

[USee]

It was definitely a clean, legal hit. 3 officials saw it and didn't react. The line judge on the NCC sideline threw a flag. It was violent but totally clean, as you said, in the hip area. And Fox was not ejected for targeting, he was ejected for a flagrant "unnecessary roughness" penalty.

[Mugsy]

It was definitely a clean, legal hit. 3 officials saw it and didn't react. The line judge on the NCC sideline threw a flag. It was violent but totally clean, as you said, in the hip area. And Fox was not ejected for targeting, he was ejected for a flagrant "unnecessary roughness" penalty.

Reminds me when I was playing in England in early 90's, there was a game where an English referee threw 2 personal foul flags with an explanation of "hitting too hard."      

[Kovo]

It was definitely a clean, legal hit. 3 officials saw it and didn't react. The line judge on the NCC sideline threw a flag. It was violent but totally clean, as you said, in the hip area. And Fox was not ejected for targeting, he was ejected for a flagrant "unnecessary roughness" penalty.

Reminds me when I was playing in England in early 90's, there was a game where an English referee threw 2 personal foul flags with an explanation of "hitting too hard."   

Where did you play in England?  I was a big fan of USAFE football as a kid.

[duckfan41]

Congratulations to Curtis McWilliams on Bering named the Offensive Player of the Week!

[Mugsy]

It was definitely a clean, legal hit. 3 officials saw it and didn't react. The line judge on the NCC sideline threw a flag. It was violent but totally clean, as you said, in the hip area. And Fox was not ejected for targeting, he was ejected for a flagrant "unnecessary roughness" penalty.

Reminds me when I was playing in England in early 90's, there was a game where an English referee threw 2 personal foul flags with an explanation of "hitting too hard."   

Where did you play in England?  I was a big fan of USAFE football as a kid.

Player/coach for the Oxford Bulldogs in 1990-91.  Not affiliated with USAFE.  Back in early-mid 90's, American football was fastest growing sport in England & Europe.  There were 75-100 teams in England across three divisions, made up of English players with 2-3 American players per team.  The Oxford Bulldogs did have a couple American players each year from Heyford US Airforce Base.

[kiko]

So maybe CCIWers can help me sort this out, given your familiarity with the teams involved.  I'm a bit mystified at both North Central and Wheaton being ahead of IWU in the Top 25 poll.  IWU has the head to head over Wheaton and the favorable common opponent result over NC.  Why in the world is IWU behind both of them in the poll?

I expected Wheaton's win over NCC to push up IWU in the polls and deservedly so. I didn't expect the leapfrog.

Aside from the additional weight that Wheaton's recent performances would carry, I suspect that if the Titans had scored four more points against UW-Lax, they would be above both of their conference brethren.  I'm sure that loss factored into the relative pecking order of the three CCIW teams even with the A > B > C results on the field.

[kiko]

Some of us don't think it necessary to rub opponents' noses in it (unlike Wheaton, who had already established that Millikin was totally over matched [35-0], but felt the need to score 28 more points.)

Boy, as much as I took Mike Swider to task in the past on at least one occasion for running up the score, we are really through the looking glass when a fan of a Norm Eash team is pointing a finger at somebody else for pouring it on against an overmatched opponent.

Yep.