FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

One other thing...if I'm an IWU fan and I watch my team burn not one but two timeouts on 4th and a half yard only to put Bauer in the shotgun and get stuffed on a QB run?  Well, I would have poured the stiffest drink I could find immediately.  That was so demoralizing.

It wasn't good, but for the most part the game felt over before that anyway.

And I didn't mind the play call.  It probably works for a yard most of the time.  Wheaton had a couple guys make big-time plays to completely blow that up.

That whole sequence highlighted the fact Wheaton beat IWU badly on the lines all game long.  IWU obviously didn't feel like they could go under center and hand the ball off for one yard.

Good point, Q.  You're probably right.  I guess that was more the last gasp for IWU.  On the play call it was interesting because right before that they'd tried to sneak from under center and snap exchange was muffed, but they had called TO (thankfully).  Maybe that's why they opted to go back to the shotgun.  I liked the under center sneak only because I'd want to give 54 as little time as possible to beat my OL, but if the QB/C aren't used to under center it could have been a repeat of what Eash had just seen.

Burning two TOs was confounding in that situation. Wheaton's defense was excellent, but the weather also played a role in shutting down IWU's passing game. It rained hard throughout the second half, and both teams struggled to move the ball.

It rained hard throughout the second half at NPU, too. Didn't seem to hurt the effectiveness of the Millikin receivers or Big Blue QB Cal Pohrte even one little bit. In fact, there wasn't a slip, a dropped pass, or a slick-ball fumble by either the Vikings or the Big Blue all day.

Maybe you can pin the blame on the ballboys at McCully for insufficient toweling.

[Marmac]

One other thing...if I'm an IWU fan and I watch my team burn not one but two timeouts on 4th and a half yard only to put Bauer in the shotgun and get stuffed on a QB run?  Well, I would have poured the stiffest drink I could find immediately.  That was so demoralizing.

It wasn't good, but for the most part the game felt over before that anyway.

And I didn't mind the play call.  It probably works for a yard most of the time.  Wheaton had a couple guys make big-time plays to completely blow that up.

That whole sequence highlighted the fact Wheaton beat IWU badly on the lines all game long.  IWU obviously didn't feel like they could go under center and hand the ball off for one yard.

Good point, Q.  You're probably right.  I guess that was more the last gasp for IWU.  On the play call it was interesting because right before that they'd tried to sneak from under center and snap exchange was muffed, but they had called TO (thankfully).  Maybe that's why they opted to go back to the shotgun.  I liked the under center sneak only because I'd want to give 54 as little time as possible to beat my OL, but if the QB/C aren't used to under center it could have been a repeat of what Eash had just seen.

Burning two TOs was confounding in that situation. Wheaton's defense was excellent, but the weather also played a role in shutting down IWU's passing game. It rained hard throughout the second half, and both teams struggled to move the ball.

It rained hard throughout the second half at NPU, too. Didn't seem to hurt the effectiveness of the Millikin receivers or Big Blue QB Cal Pohrte even one little bit. In fact, there wasn't a slip, a dropped pass, or a slick-ball fumble by either the Vikings or the Big Blue all day.

Maybe you can pin the blame on the ballboys at McCully for insufficient toweling.

At McCully, 27 points were scored in the rain-free first half; 7 points were scored in the very rainy second half. The rain slowed both offenses. If one team had been clearly inferior to the other (as NP is to Millikin), I'm sure we would have seen more second-half points at McCully. 

[Gregory Sager]

One other thing...if I'm an IWU fan and I watch my team burn not one but two timeouts on 4th and a half yard only to put Bauer in the shotgun and get stuffed on a QB run?  Well, I would have poured the stiffest drink I could find immediately.  That was so demoralizing.

It wasn't good, but for the most part the game felt over before that anyway.

And I didn't mind the play call.  It probably works for a yard most of the time.  Wheaton had a couple guys make big-time plays to completely blow that up.

That whole sequence highlighted the fact Wheaton beat IWU badly on the lines all game long.  IWU obviously didn't feel like they could go under center and hand the ball off for one yard.

Good point, Q.  You're probably right.  I guess that was more the last gasp for IWU.  On the play call it was interesting because right before that they'd tried to sneak from under center and snap exchange was muffed, but they had called TO (thankfully).  Maybe that's why they opted to go back to the shotgun.  I liked the under center sneak only because I'd want to give 54 as little time as possible to beat my OL, but if the QB/C aren't used to under center it could have been a repeat of what Eash had just seen.

Burning two TOs was confounding in that situation. Wheaton's defense was excellent, but the weather also played a role in shutting down IWU's passing game. It rained hard throughout the second half, and both teams struggled to move the ball.

It rained hard throughout the second half at NPU, too. Didn't seem to hurt the effectiveness of the Millikin receivers or Big Blue QB Cal Pohrte even one little bit. In fact, there wasn't a slip, a dropped pass, or a slick-ball fumble by either the Vikings or the Big Blue all day.

Maybe you can pin the blame on the ballboys at McCully for insufficient toweling.

At McCully, 27 points were scored in the rain-free first half; 7 points were scored in the very rainy second half. The rain slowed both offenses.

If you say so. All I'm saying is that it was also raining hard 30 miles away at Hedstrand Field in the second half, with no appreciable effect upon how the game was played.

If one team had been clearly inferior to the other (as NP is to Millikin), I'm sure we would have seen more second-half points at McCully. 

You're sure about that, eh? In one post you're blaming rain for a team's inability to move the ball, and in the next you're saying that the rain wouldn't have made any difference if the opponent was clearly inferior, as NPU definitely was to MU.

Speaking of clearly inferior, you seem to have a difference of opinion with your fellow Titans fan on that matter:

Final:

Wheaton 24
IWU 10

IWU is a really good team, but the better team won tonight -- Wheaton has a chance to have a big season.

TJ Williams is really a special player.  The Titans just couldn't handle him in the 1st half, and that sort of set the tone for the rest of the game.  The adjustments IWU had to make defensively to contain him created a lot of other opportunities for the Thunder.

And Wheaton has a strong defense.  IWU's offense is pretty elite and the Titans could not move the ball tonight.

This looks like the great Wheaton teams of a few years back w/ a lot of difference makers on both sides of the ball.  I think overall NCC is a little better, but it's close...and the NCC/WC game is at Wheaton.  I consider it a toss-up between NCC and Wheaton. 

I do not think IWU or Wash U can contend with NCC and Wheaton...but I think both are Top 25 teams.  The top of the CCIW is great this year.

(emphasis mine)

[emma17]

Emma,

Perhaps it's the winds blowing through, and swirling around inside the purple team's cavernous stadium that helps account for that 2 for 8! 

Actually, another color came to mind and, accordingly, I was referring to a school that's 120 minutes south of Naperville as opposed to north. 

Ooooh right. Weather permitting.

[USee]

There are a ton of examples of big time passing teams operating with no affect from rain. Cold weather and ice is different.  Wind is also a much bigger factor.  Rain was not an issue for either offense on Saturday in my opinion. 

[tf37]

At McCully, 27 points were scored in the rain-free first half; 7 points were scored in the very rainy second half. The rain slowed both offenses. If one team had been clearly inferior to the other (as NP is to Millikin), I'm sure we would have seen more second-half points at McCully. 

Not to take anything from IWU, but a 14-point, 4th quarter lead made Wheaton conservative not the weather.  As is typical of Wheaton (and many other teams), they get a lead and try to shorten the game/impose their will by running the ball.  They only attempted two passes in the fourth and one was a screen.  And they were having success running all night as well.

[Marmac]

One other thing...if I'm an IWU fan and I watch my team burn not one but two timeouts on 4th and a half yard only to put Bauer in the shotgun and get stuffed on a QB run?  Well, I would have poured the stiffest drink I could find immediately.  That was so demoralizing.

It wasn't good, but for the most part the game felt over before that anyway.

And I didn't mind the play call.  It probably works for a yard most of the time.  Wheaton had a couple guys make big-time plays to completely blow that up.

That whole sequence highlighted the fact Wheaton beat IWU badly on the lines all game long.  IWU obviously didn't feel like they could go under center and hand the ball off for one yard.

Good point, Q.  You're probably right.  I guess that was more the last gasp for IWU.  On the play call it was interesting because right before that they'd tried to sneak from under center and snap exchange was muffed, but they had called TO (thankfully).  Maybe that's why they opted to go back to the shotgun.  I liked the under center sneak only because I'd want to give 54 as little time as possible to beat my OL, but if the QB/C aren't used to under center it could have been a repeat of what Eash had just seen.

Burning two TOs was confounding in that situation. Wheaton's defense was excellent, but the weather also played a role in shutting down IWU's passing game. It rained hard throughout the second half, and both teams struggled to move the ball.

It rained hard throughout the second half at NPU, too. Didn't seem to hurt the effectiveness of the Millikin receivers or Big Blue QB Cal Pohrte even one little bit. In fact, there wasn't a slip, a dropped pass, or a slick-ball fumble by either the Vikings or the Big Blue all day.

Maybe you can pin the blame on the ballboys at McCully for insufficient toweling.

At McCully, 27 points were scored in the rain-free first half; 7 points were scored in the very rainy second half. The rain slowed both offenses.

If you say so. All I'm saying is that it was also raining hard 30 miles away at Hedstrand Field in the second half, with no appreciable effect upon how the game was played.

If one team had been clearly inferior to the other (as NP is to Millikin), I'm sure we would have seen more second-half points at McCully. 

You're sure about that, eh? In one post you're blaming rain for a team's inability to move the ball, and in the next you're saying that the rain wouldn't have made any difference if the opponent was clearly inferior, as NPU definitely was to MU.

Speaking of clearly inferior, you seem to have a difference of opinion with your fellow Titans fan on that matter:

Final:

Wheaton 24
IWU 10

IWU is a really good team, but the better team won tonight -- Wheaton has a chance to have a big season.

TJ Williams is really a special player.  The Titans just couldn't handle him in the 1st half, and that sort of set the tone for the rest of the game.  The adjustments IWU had to make defensively to contain him created a lot of other opportunities for the Thunder.

And Wheaton has a strong defense.  IWU's offense is pretty elite and the Titans could not move the ball tonight.

This looks like the great Wheaton teams of a few years back w/ a lot of difference makers on both sides of the ball.  I think overall NCC is a little better, but it's close...and the NCC/WC game is at Wheaton.  I consider it a toss-up between NCC and Wheaton. 

I do not think IWU or Wash U can contend with NCC and Wheaton...but I think both are Top 25 teams.  The top of the CCIW is great this year.

(emphasis mine)

1. I said the better team (Wheaton) won. I'm not an IWU fan. I was working the game and don't care if IWU goes 0-10 or 10-0.
2. People on this board often don't have the opportunity to attend the games. Their opinions are based on box scores. With this in mind, I shared the seemingly benign observation that heavy rain seemed to slow down the offenses in the second half.
3. Regarding the Millikin @ NP game, 35 points were scored in the first half and 13 were scored in the second. Are you sure the second-half rain didn't slow down the offenses in that game?

[AndOne]

An emerging weapon. Someone to keep an eye on.........

North Central 6'4" junior wide receiver Blake Williams has not yet been listed among the top six wideouts on the Cardinals two-deep roster. Yet, he currently stands second on the team with 13 receptions (1 TD) after the first two games. His 13 catches trail only preseason AA Andrew Kamienski who has 24. He is averaging 120 yards per game, and leads the Cardinals with an average of 18.5 yards per catch. Williams hauled in the Cards' longest pass so far this year, a 48 yarder.
It will be interesting to see how his development continues. 🏈

[Gregory Sager]

1. I said the better team (Wheaton) won.

You actually said this:

Wheaton was the better team tonight,

... which is not the same thing at all as saying that Illinois Wesleyan is clearly inferior to Wheaton. The word "tonight" is a big qualifier that changes the meaning of that sentence.

I'm not an IWU fan. I was working the game and don't care if IWU goes 0-10 or 10-0.

I know that you're not really a Titans fan. That's my bad for omitting the winking guy after the words "your fellow Titans fan" in my last post. 

2. People on this board often don't have the opportunity to attend the games. Their opinions are based on box scores. With this in mind, I shared the seemingly benign observation that heavy rain seemed to slow down the offenses in the second half.

... and I conceded that you were there and I wasn't ("If you say so."). However, it looks like USee and tf37 don't agree with your assessment that the rain slowed down Wheaton's offense in the second half. Then again, I don't know if they were at McCully or were watching from their respective homes.

3. Regarding the Millikin @ NP game, 35 points were scored in the first half and 13 were scored in the second. Are you sure the second-half rain didn't slow down the offenses in that game?

NPU's offense, such as it is, was slowed down by the fact that the starting running back for the Vikings and the best wideout of the Vikings were both knocked out of the game in the first half. As for Millikin, in the third quarter when the rain was at its worst, the Big Blue gained 235 yards on 35 plays -- an average of 6.7 yards per play -- and that was in spite of the fact that Dan Gritti had gone conservative and was no longer instructing Cal Pohrte to throw over the top. If he had, Jordan Smith would've gained over 300 yards receiving on the day and who knows how many touchdowns; NPU has nobody who can guard a 6'4, 205 wideout with Smith's abilities. Dalton McKay is a good cornerback, and he's by far NPU's biggest player in the defensive secondary, but he's only 6'0, 175, and he doesn't have a big edge over Smith in speed or hops that would negate Smith's advantages.

I can assure you that the second-half rain had nothing to do with anything at NPU on Saturday, aside from the fact that it made us close the press-box windows.

[tf37]

To set the record straight, I was watching from home.   

[markerickson]

This NPU offense will be recorded as one of the worst in the history of the CCIW.  Zero playmakers; no one has explosiveness or speed.  The line cannot protect a drop-back QB and there is no attempt to run between the tackles b/c there is no back who can do so.  As alluded to by Greg, the defense is undersized, which, historically, has always been a problem.  The Vikings are an absolutely terrible team and I am sure AD Born has been wondering for months why Coach Conway got fired.  What solace is there in maybe beating Carroll for the lone victory of the season?

[Gregory Sager]

We've been through this before, Mark. Mike Conway wasn't fired. He resigned.

[79jaybird]

"what solace is there in beating Carroll for the victory of the season"

Hey I've echoed that statement about Elmhurst having a chance in only 1 or 2 games/year as both a player and broadcaster.  It's tough when there is little to no foundation for a program.  This also makes those institutions with great coaches (i.a.Wheaton, IWU, a Larry Kehres at MUC) etc. appreciate their success and leadership capabilities.

[Gregory Sager]

I felt very strongly that Scott Pethtel and Mike Conway were great coaches with strong leadership capabilities. I still do. And I look forward to seeing whether Kyle Rooker has those qualities as well.

NPU has hired very well for football over the past thirteen years. You won't hear a single complaint from me about any of those last three head-coach hires by now-retired AD Jack Surridge. The cumulative GPA of the team went up nearly a full point over the course of Pethtel's tenure, and early on in his stay he brought the number of players on the roster from about 30 up to about 90. And under Conway the roster got up above 100 and remained there for most of his tenure, allowing NPU to play junior varsity schedules for several seasons for the first time in eons. Plus, he opened up the school as a whole to a brand-new student recruitment zone, the Pacific islands. More than that, the quality of student-athletes that Scott and Mike recruited, in social terms as well as academic terms, improved remarkably from what it had been before. Coaching is looked at as a bottom-line profession, with wins and losses as the bottom line, and that's an attitude that has seeped down into D3 to the point where the other stuff that I've talked about -- the stuff that actually matters in terms of a school's institutional profile, as opposed to the outcome of football games -- gets overlooked on d3boards.com.

You talk about foundation, 79jb, and the truth can't be avoided that, to use the parable in Matthew 7 and Luke 6 as an analogy, it's hard to build a foundation upon sand when others have the opportunity to build theirs upon rock. North Park has inherent institutional limitations that, unlike in other sports, will always keep a low ceiling for success in place for Vikings football. That truth cannot be avoided or overcome. But it hasn't meant that NPU has lacked great coaches. On the contrary, it's had a couple of great ones in this decade, in my estimation, and as I said I look forward to seeing Kyle Rooker aspire to match that -- even while I also expect him to diligently ignore what I just said by trying to build a winning football program. And I will support him as he completely disregards my realistic appraisal of his odds at building it.

[Dr. Acula]

I felt very strongly that Scott Pethtel and Mike Conway were great coaches with strong leadership capabilities. I still do. And I look forward to seeing whether Kyle Rooker has those qualities as well.

NPU has hired very well for football over the past thirteen years. You won't hear a single complaint from me about any of those last three head-coach hires by now-retired AD Jack Surridge. The cumulative GPA of the team went up nearly a full point over the course of Pethtel's tenure, and early on in his stay he brought the number of players on the roster from about 30 up to about 90. And under Conway the roster got up above 100 and remained there for most of his tenure, allowing NPU to play junior varsity schedules for several seasons for the first time in eons. Plus, he opened up the school as a whole to a brand-new student recruitment zone, the Pacific islands. More than that, the quality of student-athletes that Scott and Mike recruited, in social terms as well as academic terms, improved remarkably from what it had been before. Coaching is looked at as a bottom-line profession, with wins and losses as the bottom line, and that's an attitude that has seeped down into D3 to the point where the other stuff that I've talked about -- the stuff that actually matters in terms of a school's institutional profile, as opposed to the outcome of football games -- gets overlooked on d3boards.com.

You talk about foundation, 79jb, and the truth can't be avoided that, to use the parable in Matthew 7 and Luke 6 as an analogy, it's hard to build a foundation upon sand when others have the opportunity to build theirs upon rock. North Park has inherent institutional limitations that, unlike in other sports, will always keep a low ceiling for success in place for Vikings football. That truth cannot be avoided or overcome. But it hasn't meant that NPU has lacked great coaches. On the contrary, it's had a couple of great ones in this decade, in my estimation, and as I said I look forward to seeing Kyle Rooker aspire to match that -- even while I also expect him to diligently ignore what I just said by trying to build a winning football program. And I will support him as he completely disregards my realistic appraisal of his odds at building it.

Not sure if you were mentioning this from a football/competitive aspect or if you meant it from this angle, but in the fierce race for butts in seats at most D3 schools increasing your roster size and helping enrollment (especially with quality students) is a big deal and should be valued properly.  Very often those are students who wouldn't be on your campus otherwise.  If you can increase your enrollment and geographic reach with quality kids through an athletic program that's a big win IMO.