FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[ncc_fan]

Just for fun (since it has no bearing on NCAA selections)...
Massey ratings:  Wheaton #1, NCC #2
Hansen ratings: Wheaton #2, NCC #3

[hazzben]

Just for fun (since it has no bearing on NCAA selections)...
Massey ratings:  Wheaton #1, NCC #2
Hansen ratings: Wheaton #2, NCC #3

It pains me to think Bethel might get left home. And I think we climb both rankings several spots if we beat UST. But I don't think I can argue for us over NCC, without splitting hairs. Both teams are really, really good Top 10 teams this year. Last year showed they both belong (I mention it since they both have so much skill talent back from those teams), but what do you do. I'm still hoping for some upsets and that both the CCIW and MIAC get two teams into the dance.

In my dreams I imagine MIAC Pool A v. CCIW Pool C in one region final and CCIW Pool A v. MIAC Pool C in the other. Just thing it'd make for amazing games and storylines.

[tf37]

Just for fun (since it has no bearing on NCAA selections)...
Massey ratings:  Wheaton #1, NCC #2
Hansen ratings: Wheaton #2, NCC #3

It pains me to think Bethel might get left home. And I think we climb both rankings several spots if we beat UST. But I don't think I can argue for us over NCC, without splitting hairs. Both teams are really, really good Top 10 teams this year. Last year showed they both belong (I mention it since they both have so much skill talent back from those teams), but what do you do. I'm still hoping for some upsets and that both the CCIW and MIAC get two teams into the dance.

In my dreams I imagine MIAC Pool A v. CCIW Pool C in one region semi-final and CCIW Pool A v. MIAC Pool C in the other. Just thing it'd make for amazing games and storylines.

Dream big...

[hazzben]

Just for fun (since it has no bearing on NCAA selections)...
Massey ratings:  Wheaton #1, NCC #2
Hansen ratings: Wheaton #2, NCC #3

It pains me to think Bethel might get left home. And I think we climb both rankings several spots if we beat UST. But I don't think I can argue for us over NCC, without splitting hairs. Both teams are really, really good Top 10 teams this year. Last year showed they both belong (I mention it since they both have so much skill talent back from those teams), but what do you do. I'm still hoping for some upsets and that both the CCIW and MIAC get two teams into the dance.

In my dreams I imagine MIAC Pool A v. CCIW Pool C in one region semi-final and CCIW Pool A v. MIAC Pool C in the other. Just thing it'd make for amazing games and storylines.

Dream big...

Now you're just teasing me 

[mdrem7]

It sure seems like the North RAC is positining JCU to leap NCC in the rankings if they beat BW this week. JCU's SOS is going to bump up and NCC's will take a hit. Also, the RRO data will skew toward JCU and away from NCC with BW staying ranked.

While I can't imagine the North putting JCU ahead of NCC on any kind of rational grounds, they just might do it, which would be curtains for NCC's ability to make the field IMO.

And if UWW were to lose Saturday, total chaos,  as multiple top 10 ranked teams (which has no bearing on the selection criteria) may not make it into the field.

Think it's just time for them to drop the automatic bids and go with the 8 best regional teams. A #6 NCC with only 1 loss to the #4 team in the country getting left out in favor of 4-5 SUNY-Maritime is a joke.

Highest ranked team ever to miss the field is ______ ?

Not my research, but I found this on the pool C discussion board (courtesy of poster "Baldini")

"Highest ranked teams not to make playoffs:

2018 - #15 St. Thomas
2017 - #21 Concordia-Moorhead
2016 - #24 St. Lawrence
2015 - #14 UW-Platteville
2014 - #15 North Central
2013 - #11 UW-Oshkosh
2012 - #13 UW-Platteville
2011 - #12 Cal Lutheran
2010 - #20 Pacific Lutheran
2009 - #13 Ohio Northern"

At #6, NCC would be re-writing history by almost 50%!!!

Actually, #6 NCC and even more so #9 Bethel, and #10 JCU could be left out of the playoffs. Wow, this is getting crazy. I think it's time for the NCAA to revise its faulty criteria...

[JCUStreaks70]

It sure seems like the North RAC is positining JCU to leap NCC in the rankings if they beat BW this week. JCU's SOS is going to bump up and NCC's will take a hit. Also, the RRO data will skew toward JCU and away from NCC with BW staying ranked.

While I can't imagine the North putting JCU ahead of NCC on any kind of rational grounds, they just might do it, which would be curtains for NCC's ability to make the field IMO.

And if UWW were to lose Saturday, total chaos,  as multiple top 10 ranked teams (which has no bearing on the selection criteria) may not make it into the field.

Think it's just time for them to drop the automatic bids and go with the 8 best regional teams. A #6 NCC with only 1 loss to the #4 team in the country getting left out in favor of 4-5 SUNY-Maritime is a joke.

Highest ranked team ever to miss the field is ______ ?

Not my research, but I found this on the pool C discussion board (courtesy of poster "Baldini")

"Highest ranked teams not to make playoffs:

2018 - #15 St. Thomas
2017 - #21 Concordia-Moorhead
2016 - #24 St. Lawrence
2015 - #14 UW-Platteville
2014 - #15 North Central
2013 - #11 UW-Oshkosh
2012 - #13 UW-Platteville
2011 - #12 Cal Lutheran
2010 - #20 Pacific Lutheran
2009 - #13 Ohio Northern"

At #6, NCC would be re-writing history by almost 50%!!!

Actually, #6 NCC and even more so #9 Bethel, and #10 JCU could be left out of the playoffs. Wow, this is getting crazy. I think it's time for the NCAA to revise its faulty criteria...

There should not be a world where a 1 loss team from the MIAC or CCIW (and WIAC but this year Whitewater would still be in even if they lose tomorrow and Oshkosh takes the Automatic) should be left home.. I want to include the OAC in that, but we are not as strong as the aforementioned conferences.. Still good, but not great..

With that, it's hard to fathom a JCU team who's sole loss is to Mount being kept home either.. While our game with them was not as close as the previous 6 years (1 win in that time at least!), we did lose to them by a score that you routinely see them winning in the Quarter's and Semi's.. However, we have not done ourselves any favors with some of the very close games throughout the year..

This is why I think the SOS is stupid, and the playoff format really needs to be revised....

[hazzben]

It sure seems like the North RAC is positining JCU to leap NCC in the rankings if they beat BW this week. JCU's SOS is going to bump up and NCC's will take a hit. Also, the RRO data will skew toward JCU and away from NCC with BW staying ranked.

While I can't imagine the North putting JCU ahead of NCC on any kind of rational grounds, they just might do it, which would be curtains for NCC's ability to make the field IMO.

And if UWW were to lose Saturday, total chaos,  as multiple top 10 ranked teams (which has no bearing on the selection criteria) may not make it into the field.

Think it's just time for them to drop the automatic bids and go with the 8 best regional teams. A #6 NCC with only 1 loss to the #4 team in the country getting left out in favor of 4-5 SUNY-Maritime is a joke.

Highest ranked team ever to miss the field is ______ ?

Not my research, but I found this on the pool C discussion board (courtesy of poster “Baldini”)

“Highest ranked teams not to make playoffs:

2018 - #15 St. Thomas
2017 - #21 Concordia-Moorhead
2016 - #24 St. Lawrence
2015 - #14 UW-Platteville
2014 - #15 North Central
2013 - #11 UW-Oshkosh
2012 - #13 UW-Platteville
2011 - #12 Cal Lutheran
2010 - #20 Pacific Lutheran
2009 - #13 Ohio Northern”

At #6, NCC would be re-writing history by almost 50%!!!

Actually, #6 NCC and even more so #9 Bethel, and #10 JCU could be left out of the playoffs. Wow, this is getting crazy. I think it’s time for the NCAA to revise its faulty criteria...

There should not be a world where a 1 loss team from the MIAC or CCIW (and WIAC but this year Whitewater would still be in even if they lose tomorrow and Oshkosh takes the Automatic) should be left home.. I want to include the OAC in that, but we are not as strong as the aforementioned conferences.. Still good, but not great..

With that, it's hard to fathom a JCU team who's sole loss is to Mount being kept home either.. While our game with them was not as close as the previous 6 years (1 win in that time at least!), we did lose to them by a score that you routinely see them winning in the Quarter's and Semi's.. However, we have not done ourselves any favors with some of the very close games throughout the year..

This is why I think the SOS is stupid, and the playoff format really needs to be revised....

Preach it brother  ... We've been throwing around ideas on the MIAC board for how to go about doing it. It quickly highlighted the hardest part, the majority of D3 are teams served by a system that preserves access for even bad conference champs, rather than one that balances access with also making sure Top 15 teams aren't left sitting at home.

I'm all for improving SOS. Shoot, just adopt Logan Hansen's formula, since it accounts for historic conference strength...So 9-1 in the CCIW or MIAC or WIAC isn't the same as 9-1 in the UMAC or ECFC. Or simply have a trigger that if a Pool A team has 3 or more losses, their bid is forfeited, unless they have one result vRRO (so an 7-3 team that went 8-2 in league and lost to a good team in non-con is still in), combined with adopting once ranked always ranked for the RRO criteria. Finally, any team not over .500 is in-eligible for the postseason, regardless of games v. RRO (at a certain point, losing 5+ times in a season means you've had enough shots to make the postseason).

It should not be the norm for conferences to lose their Pool A bid, but there should be some mechanism that makes sure a 4-6 or 5-5 ECFC team isn't going to get beat 70-0 against a #1 seeds JV squad in round 1.

[Gregory Sager]

Preach it brother  ... We've been throwing around ideas on the MIAC board for how to go about doing it. It quickly highlighted the hardest part, the majority of D3 are teams served by a system that preserves access for even bad conference champs, rather than one that balances access with also making sure Top 15 teams aren't left sitting at home.

I'm all for improving SOS. Shoot, just adopt Logan Hansen's formula, since it accounts for historic conference strength...So 9-1 in the CCIW or MIAC or WIAC isn't the same as 9-1 in the UMAC or ECFC. Or simply have a trigger that if a Pool A team has 3 or more losses, their bid is forfeited, unless they have one result vRRO (so an 7-3 team that went 8-2 in league and lost to a good team in non-con is still in), combined with adopting once ranked always ranked for the RRO criteria. Finally, any team not over .500 is in-eligible for the postseason, regardless of games v. RRO (at a certain point, losing 5+ times in a season means you've had enough shots to make the postseason).

It should not be the norm for conferences to lose their Pool A bid, but there should be some mechanism that makes sure a 4-6 or 5-5 ECFC team isn't going to get beat 70-0 against a #1 seeds JV squad in round 1.

Nope. That ain't gonna fly.

I cannot emphasize enough how much weight the NCAA puts upon championship access. You pay your dues to the organization, you get all the rights therein -- including equal access to championships. There is no way in the world that the NCAA will ever go back on guaranteeing access to each member league in its championships. That's why at the D1 level the basketball bracket keeps getting bigger and more cumbersome; every two-bit league filled with ex-D2 johnny-come-latelies gets an automatic berth in March Madness, but the people who run the tournament (including the TV networks as well as the D1 schools themselves) don't want to scrimp on at-larges from power conferences, who not only make the tournament more competitive but add eyeballs to TV sets as well.

Like it or not, every D3 football league is going to be represented in the bracket every year, even if the team that represents that league is only 6-4 or 5-5. There's no way that you can come up with some sort of minimum qualifier, or any other device, that could possibly deprive a league of an autobid. It would be completely unacceptable to the schools who make up the leagues that stand to possibly lose their Pool A autobids under those circumstances.

You said it yourself:

the majority of D3 are teams served by a system that preserves access for even bad conference champs

The NCAA is still a democracy in which every school gets one vote, no matter how good or how bad its football team is.

[thunderdog]

With Wabash (7-3), Olivet (8-2), and Baldwin Wallace (7-3) all losing today, I'm thinking this allows WashU (7-3) to slide back into the #10 spot in the final North RR. That would make Wheaton 3-0 vs RRO... and more than deserving of a #1 seed.

PS Monmouth defeated St Norbert 10-7, finishes 8-2, with a pool A bid...

[Stagg Again!!]

If WashU becomes a RRO and NCC is 1-1 v. RROs AND UWW is 0-1 against RROs, did UWW just play themselves out of the playoffs?  If Wesley, Redlands, Wartburg, Susquehanna, North Central, and UWW are all on the table, who is left out?

[HScoach]

OWU drops UWW.  Wheaton should garner the 3rd #1 seed and be paired on the same side of the bracket with Mount who should the 2nd #1 seed behind MHB.   Interesting.

[HScoach]

If WashU becomes a RRO and NCC is 1-1 v. RROs AND UWW is 0-1 against RROs, did UWW just play themselves out of the playoffs?

From #1 in the West to out?  Nah, they'll be an easy Pool C.

[Stagg Again!!]

If WashU becomes a RRO and NCC is 1-1 v. RROs AND UWW is 0-1 against RROs, did UWW just play themselves out of the playoffs?

From #1 in the West to out?  Nah, they'll be an easy Pool C.

Generally, I would agree, BUT they are 0-1 against RROs and did not play in the last game of the season against their only RRO.  How does a Top 10 team get left out of the tournament?  This will be interesting.

[hazzben]

@Greg

They have a system in D2 that ensures below average teams don't make the playoffs. There is a precedent in the NCAA for this.

[Gregory Sager]

That's D2. This is D3. Completely different membership size and profile.