FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[formerd3db]

NT, regarding who's going to be manning the helm for NCC next year: there's already rumors afoot of a transfer from a scholarship school.

The spot couldn't be any more attractive for someone considering.

That is never a good feeling for the returning former backups who will vying for the position. But...they all know they just have to go "all out" a s try to win the slot regardless of who the newcomers are, freshman or transfers.

[Stagg Again!!]

In the 5 game playoff series NCC outscored it's opponents by combined scores of 227-109 with almost half (52) of the opposition points being scored in just one game. 🏈a

I'm glad you mentioned this AneOne.  While I was on the flight back from Texas, I was thinking about all of the top defenses I got the opportunity to see this year... Wheaton, Delaware Valley, Mount Union, Muhlenberg, Wisconsin Whitewater (and even Augustana and Illinois Wesleyan in the CCIW).  These groups were all ranked in the Top 75, and each had key strengths.  That said, I am not sure I saw a group that improved as much throughout the year or as good at the end of the season (when things actually mattered) as was North Central's own defense.  From the mid-point of the game against Mount game until the final whistle in Shenandoah the Cardinal's "no-name defense" was the defensive best unit on the field.  I will readily admit that I saw some phenomenal individual defenders (McRae, Nobile, Feaster, McGrath, Harris, James, Schwartz, Rowland, and Ford) that may have been better than anyone in a Cardinal uniform.  That said, the Cardinals ran a gauntlet of Top 10 opponents without giving up more than 14 points per game (or 1/2 game in the case out Mount)!  They outplayed opponent's OLs, shut down top tier running games, held passing games in check and bent, but never broke. 

So much credit for NCC's National Championship has gone to its offense (and deservedly so!), but I wanted to shine a little light on the Cardinal's underrated defensive unit and recognize the role they played in bringing the walnut and bronze to Naperville.  Thank you Gilroy, Rich, Ayhan, and Hyland for your aggressive pursuit of the QB and holding the edge.  Thank you Martin for Ziegler for stuffing the run, staying in your lanes, getting after the QB, and all of those TFLs.  Thank you Butler, Beauchamp, and Wong for filling the wholes, blitzing, and owning the middle of the field and flats.  Thank you Bell, Beesley, Cremeens, and Lindmark for the interceptions and passes defended.  I am looking forward to seeing this unit back in Naperville next fall as one of the top-ranked defenses in the country (with several pre-season All-Conference and All-American nods).

You should give a little credit to the NCAA Committee for giving you a bracket that had only 1 capable team that could pass the ball. That has a lot to do with the performance on defense during the playoffs IMO. But that defense was certainly under rated and did a great job during the playoffs.

Nope, I stick with my earlier comments USee.  I saw them all and think that NCC's defense was the best on the field and in all of D3 during the last 3 1/2 weeks of the season.  During that span, NCC's defense "held" the 2nd Team All North Region/3rd Team All American QB, 1st Team All American WR, and D3's Top Total Offense in check during the 2nd half on the road; the 1st Team All South Region QB and 3rd Team All American TE on the road; a top tier rushing team running behind All-American/All-Conference OL hogs on the road; and an athletic offense with a 1st Team All-American TE at home.  Throw in the fact that those same teams had among the best defenses in country trying to flip the script and keep our D on the field and you get the picture.

I just saw the final Top 25 and was generally fine with the Top 8, but personally would have probably have put NCC #1, Mount #2 and UWW #3, St. Johns #4, Muhlenberg #5, Wheaton #6, Delaware Valley #7, and UMHB #8.

[kiko]

I just saw the final Top 25 and was generally fine with the Top 8, but personally would have probably have put NCC #1, Mount #2 and UWW #3, St. Johns #4, Muhlenberg #5, Wheaton #6, Delaware Valley #7, and UMHB #8.

1. North Central
2. Mount
3. Whitewater
4. St. John's
5. Wheaton
6. Delaware Valley
7. UMHB
8. John Carroll
9. Muhlenberg
10. Wartburg

[nccfac]

I just saw the final Top 25 and was generally fine with the Top 8, but personally would have probably have put NCC #1, Mount #2 and UWW #3, St. Johns #4, Muhlenberg #5, Wheaton #6, Delaware Valley #7, and UMHB #8.

1. North Central
2. Mount
3. Whitewater
4. St. John's
5. Wheaton
6. Delaware Valley
7. UMHB
8. John Carroll
9. Muhlenberg
10. Wartburg

Kiko,
I like your top ten, especially Delaware Valley above Muhlenberg. Only John Carroll gives me pause, I might move Muhlenberg there and Salisbury below them and follow with Wartburg. Certainly possible to make cases the other way. The one I think they got right for sure is NCC as #1 and two CCIW schools in the top ten.

[CardinalAlum]

NT, regarding who's going to be manning the helm for NCC next year: there's already rumors afoot of a transfer from a scholarship school.

Those rumors are always out there every year.   #12 will get his opportunity to show he's the guy.  He learned from the best and played a bit in the second half of a few games. 

[Stagg Again!!]

I just saw the final Top 25 and was generally fine with the Top 8, but personally would have probably have put NCC #1, Mount #2 and UWW #3, St. Johns #4, Muhlenberg #5, Wheaton #6, Delaware Valley #7, and UMHB #8.

1. North Central
2. Mount
3. Whitewater
4. St. John's
5. Wheaton
6. Delaware Valley
7. UMHB
8. John Carroll
9. Muhlenberg
10. Wartburg

Kiko,
I like your top ten, especially Delaware Valley above Muhlenberg. Only John Carroll gives me pause, I might move Muhlenberg there and Salisbury below them and follow with Wartburg. Certainly possible to make cases the other way. The one I think they got right for sure is NCC as #1 and two CCIW schools in the top ten.

I slid the Mules in at #5 ahead of Wheaton because they they actually made it to the National Semis, only allowed 8 points in the first three rounds of the playoffs, absolutely shut down a good Salisbury team, and only lost to the eventual National Champion.  Wheaton did not make it to the National Semis, had to stage a comeback against SJU just to get into a position to send their game into OT, and then made three crucial mistakes in a row to lose to SJU (penalty, failed XP, and failed XP).  The Mules had a better defense than did SJU, and I don't believe that Wheaton would have defeated Muhlenberg head to head... it certainly would have been a low scoring game.

I had Del Val ahead of UMBH because Del Valley played NCC to a closer score than did UWW (which had defeated UMBH).  Also, I believe that Del Valley would have shut UMBH's offense down head to head.  UMBH v. Del Valley would also have been a low scoring game.

[CardinalAlum]

I just saw the final Top 25 and was generally fine with the Top 8, but personally would have probably have put NCC #1, Mount #2 and UWW #3, St. Johns #4, Muhlenberg #5, Wheaton #6, Delaware Valley #7, and UMHB #8.

1. North Central
2. Mount
3. Whitewater
4. St. John's
5. Wheaton
6. Delaware Valley
7. UMHB
8. John Carroll
9. Muhlenberg
10. Wartburg

Kiko,
I like your top ten, especially Delaware Valley above Muhlenberg. Only John Carroll gives me pause, I might move Muhlenberg there and Salisbury below them and follow with Wartburg. Certainly possible to make cases the other way. The one I think they got right for sure is NCC as #1 and two CCIW schools in the top ten.

I slid the Mules in at #5 ahead of Wheaton because they they actually made it to the National Semis, only allowed 8 points in the first three rounds of the playoffs, absolutely shut down a good Salisbury team, and only lost to the eventual National Champion.  Wheaton did not make it to the National Semis, had to stage a comeback against SJU just to get into a position to send their game into OT, and then made three crucial mistakes in a row to lose to SJU (penalty, failed XP, and failed XP).  The Mules had a better defense than did SJU, and I don't believe that Wheaton would have defeated Muhlenberg head to head... it certainly would have been a low scoring game.

I had Del Val ahead of UMBH because Del Valley played NCC to a closer score than did UWW (which had defeated UMBH).  Also, I believe that Del Valley would have shut UMBH's offense down head to head.  UMBH v. Del Valley would also have been a low scoring game.

Wheaton beats Muhlenberg by 40 points.

[kiko]

I just saw the final Top 25 and was generally fine with the Top 8, but personally would have probably have put NCC #1, Mount #2 and UWW #3, St. Johns #4, Muhlenberg #5, Wheaton #6, Delaware Valley #7, and UMHB #8.

1. North Central
2. Mount
3. Whitewater
4. St. John's
5. Wheaton
6. Delaware Valley
7. UMHB
8. John Carroll
9. Muhlenberg
10. Wartburg

Kiko,
I like your top ten, especially Delaware Valley above Muhlenberg. Only John Carroll gives me pause, I might move Muhlenberg there and Salisbury below them and follow with Wartburg. Certainly possible to make cases the other way. The one I think they got right for sure is NCC as #1 and two CCIW schools in the top ten.

I slid the Mules in at #5 ahead of Wheaton because they they actually made it to the National Semis, only allowed 8 points in the first three rounds of the playoffs, absolutely shut down a good Salisbury team, and only lost to the eventual National Champion.  Wheaton did not make it to the National Semis, had to stage a comeback against SJU just to get into a position to send their game into OT, and then made three crucial mistakes in a row to lose to SJU (penalty, failed XP, and failed XP).  The Mules had a better defense than did SJU, and I don't believe that Wheaton would have defeated Muhlenberg head to head... it certainly would have been a low scoring game.

I had Del Val ahead of UMBH because Del Valley played NCC to a closer score than did UWW (which had defeated UMBH).  Also, I believe that Del Valley would have shut UMBH's offense down head to head.  UMBH v. Del Valley would also have been a low scoring game.

Wheaton beats Muhlenberg by 40 points.

This.  And, I think Oshkosh, St. Thomas, and Bethel would also beat them.

I don't think the Mules are as bad as they showed in the opening minutes against North Central, as the string of mistakes/turnovers that put them in a deep hole probably don't happen to them again.  But I also think I saw first-hand just how wide the gap is between quality teams in the (geographic) East versus quality teams in the North/West.  I put Muhlenberg in the top ten because they dominated other East teams and made the semifinals, but seriously considered leaving them out and adding St. Thomas to the list.  (The Tommies are my #11.)

[Stagg Again!!]

I just saw the final Top 25 and was generally fine with the Top 8, but personally would have probably have put NCC #1, Mount #2 and UWW #3, St. Johns #4, Muhlenberg #5, Wheaton #6, Delaware Valley #7, and UMHB #8.

1. North Central
2. Mount
3. Whitewater
4. St. John's
5. Wheaton
6. Delaware Valley
7. UMHB
8. John Carroll
9. Muhlenberg
10. Wartburg

Kiko,
I like your top ten, especially Delaware Valley above Muhlenberg. Only John Carroll gives me pause, I might move Muhlenberg there and Salisbury below them and follow with Wartburg. Certainly possible to make cases the other way. The one I think they got right for sure is NCC as #1 and two CCIW schools in the top ten.

I slid the Mules in at #5 ahead of Wheaton because they they actually made it to the National Semis, only allowed 8 points in the first three rounds of the playoffs, absolutely shut down a good Salisbury team, and only lost to the eventual National Champion.  Wheaton did not make it to the National Semis, had to stage a comeback against SJU just to get into a position to send their game into OT, and then made three crucial mistakes in a row to lose to SJU (penalty, failed XP, and failed XP).  The Mules had a better defense than did SJU, and I don't believe that Wheaton would have defeated Muhlenberg head to head... it certainly would have been a low scoring game.

I had Del Val ahead of UMBH because Del Valley played NCC to a closer score than did UWW (which had defeated UMBH).  Also, I believe that Del Valley would have shut UMBH's offense down head to head.  UMBH v. Del Valley would also have been a low scoring game.

Wheaton beats Muhlenberg by 40 points.

This.  And, I think Oshkosh, St. Thomas, and Bethel would also beat them.

I don't think the Mules are as bad as they showed in the opening minutes against North Central, as the string of mistakes/turnovers that put them in a deep hole probably don't happen to them again.  But I also think I saw first-hand just how wide the gap is between quality teams in the (geographic) East versus quality teams in the North/West.  I put Muhlenberg in the top ten because they dominated other East teams and made the semifinals, but seriously considered leaving them out and adding St. Thomas to the list.  (The Tommies are my #11.)

You mean like Oshkosh beat a one dimensional Salisbury team that got throttled by Muhlenberg?  Hmmm.

Believe that John Carroll and St. Thomas should both have been ranked higher.

Bottom line for me is that it is hard to justify putting a Wheaton team that failed three times in a row at the end of their home playoff game on the biggest stage ahead of one that beat up on everyone but the eventual National Champion.  Muhlenberg > Salisbury > Oshkosh and Oshkosh > Whitewater > St. Johns > Wheaton at the end of the year when things mattered the most.  Frankly, I can see either team winning a head to head matchup, but wouldn't want to see Muhlenberg penalized for Wheaton's inability to live up to their potential and everyone's expectations.  If Oshkosh had put a beat down on Salisbury in their head to head OR if Whitewater had defeated Oshkosh, I would certainly agree with your point, but neither happened.  There were no other major matchups between East and North/West heavyweights upon which to make comparisons.

[kiko]

You mean like Oshkosh beat a one dimensional Salisbury team that got throttled by Muhlenberg?  Hmmm.

Believe that John Carroll and St. Thomas should both have been ranked higher.

Bottom line for me is that it is hard to justify putting a Wheaton team that failed three times in a row at the end of their home playoff game on the biggest stage ahead of one that beat up on everyone but the eventual National Champion.  Muhlenberg > Salisbury > Oshkosh and Oshkosh > Whitewater > St. Johns > Wheaton at the end of the year when things mattered the most.  Frankly, I can see either team winning a head to head matchup, but wouldn't want to see Muhlenberg penalized for Wheaton's inability to live up to their potential and everyone's expectations.  If Oshkosh had put a beat down on Salisbury in their head to head OR if Whitewater had defeated Oshkosh, I would certainly agree with your point, but neither happened.  There were no other major matchups between East and North/West heavyweights upon which to make comparisons.

Except even with those mistakes, Wheaton was a hair away from a semifinal berth, and against a team who's top-five creds don't seem to be in question.  If the Wheaties make that extra point, they're in OT against the Johnnies.  Muhlenberg was... not in danger of going into OT when they played a non-Eastern top ten team.

Muhlenberg doesn't get penalized for anything Wheaton did... they get penalized because when they finally played team from a stronger region, they allowed 486 yards of offense, 293 rushing yards, and 6.8 yards per play.  To use your framing, while at home and on their biggest stage of the season, they gave us a sequence that went pick / 73-yard TD drive / bad snap / one-play TD drive / fumble on kickoff / TD drive.  That is far more egregious than Wheaton's miscues, which came at the end of a close game.  (Side note: please don't make me defend Wheaton.  It feels gross.)

I don't think the Mules were as bad as that sequence showed, but I also think their gaudy defensive stats were largely a product of their schedule and their region, and I can't give the Eastern teams a pass when we see teams like Wabash playing the Cardinals much closer than the Mules did.

[AndOne]

I just saw the final Top 25 and was generally fine with the Top 8, but personally would have probably have put NCC #1, Mount #2 and UWW #3, St. Johns #4, Muhlenberg #5, Wheaton #6, Delaware Valley #7, and UMHB #8.

1. North Central
2. Mount
3. Whitewater
4. St. John's
5. Wheaton
6. Delaware Valley
7. UMHB
8. John Carroll
9. Muhlenberg
10. Wartburg

JMHO, FWIW, WINAA 

1. North Central
2. Mt. Union
3. St. Johns
4. Wheaton
5. Delaware Valley
6. Whitewater
7. UMHB
8. Muhlenberg
9. Salisbury
10. Wesley

[AndOne]

I can't think of an opposing player I've enjoyed watching play as much as Ethan Greenfield.  What a stud.  Such a pleasure to watch that kid do his thing.

Only a sophomore. Pretty much everyone but Rutter is back next year.

Wouldn't be surprising to learn some freshmen D1 QBs, who haven't taken a snap or even sniffed the field all year, are looking toward Naperville, and considering their options for next season. 

NT, regarding who's going to be manning the helm for NCC next year: there's already rumors afoot of a transfer from a scholarship school.

The spot couldn't be any more attractive for someone considering.

NT, regarding who's going to be manning the helm for NCC next year: there's already rumors afoot of a transfer from a scholarship school.

The spot couldn't be any more attractive for someone considering.

That is never a good feeling for the returning former backups who will vying for the position. But...they all know they just have to go "all out" a s try to win the slot regardless of who the newcomers are, freshman or transfers.

NT, regarding who's going to be manning the helm for NCC next year: there's already rumors afoot of a transfer from a scholarship school.

Those rumors are always out there every year.   #12 will get his opportunity to show he's the guy.  He learned from the best and played a bit in the second half of a few games. 

#12 will certainly get a chance, but I think the odds favor next year's NCC starting QB as being someone who didn't occupy a roster spot this season.

[Stagg Again!!]

You mean like Oshkosh beat a one dimensional Salisbury team that got throttled by Muhlenberg?  Hmmm.

Believe that John Carroll and St. Thomas should both have been ranked higher.

Bottom line for me is that it is hard to justify putting a Wheaton team that failed three times in a row at the end of their home playoff game on the biggest stage ahead of one that beat up on everyone but the eventual National Champion.  Muhlenberg > Salisbury > Oshkosh and Oshkosh > Whitewater > St. Johns > Wheaton at the end of the year when things mattered the most.  Frankly, I can see either team winning a head to head matchup, but wouldn't want to see Muhlenberg penalized for Wheaton's inability to live up to their potential and everyone's expectations.  If Oshkosh had put a beat down on Salisbury in their head to head OR if Whitewater had defeated Oshkosh, I would certainly agree with your point, but neither happened.  There were no other major matchups between East and North/West heavyweights upon which to make comparisons.

Except even with those mistakes, Wheaton was a hair away from a semifinal berth, and against a team who's top-five creds don't seem to be in question.  If the Wheaties make that extra point, they're in OT against the Johnnies.  Muhlenberg was... not in danger of going into OT when they played a non-Eastern top ten team.

Muhlenberg doesn't get penalized for anything Wheaton did... they get penalized because when they finally played team from a stronger region, they allowed 486 yards of offense, 293 rushing yards, and 6.8 yards per play.  To use your framing, while at home and on their biggest stage of the season, they gave us a sequence that went pick / 73-yard TD drive / bad snap / one-play TD drive / fumble on kickoff / TD drive.  That is far more egregious than Wheaton's miscues, which came at the end of a close game.  (Side note: please don't make me defend Wheaton.  It feels gross.)

I don't think the Mules were as bad as that sequence showed, but I also think their gaudy defensive stats were largely a product of their schedule and their region, and I can't give the Eastern teams a pass when we see teams like Wabash playing the Cardinals much closer than the Mules did.

Mules made it to the Semis; Crusaders did not.  Sorry about making you defend Wheaton... must suck!  I do know that we will both agree on #1.  I am also thinking about changing my moniker to Stagg Again or Bust.  I just watched the entire game on YouTube TV and the Cardinals still won 41-14.   

[Kovo]

You mean like Oshkosh beat a one dimensional Salisbury team that got throttled by Muhlenberg?  Hmmm.

Believe that John Carroll and St. Thomas should both have been ranked higher.

Bottom line for me is that it is hard to justify putting a Wheaton team that failed three times in a row at the end of their home playoff game on the biggest stage ahead of one that beat up on everyone but the eventual National Champion.  Muhlenberg > Salisbury > Oshkosh and Oshkosh > Whitewater > St. Johns > Wheaton at the end of the year when things mattered the most.  Frankly, I can see either team winning a head to head matchup, but wouldn't want to see Muhlenberg penalized for Wheaton's inability to live up to their potential and everyone's expectations.  If Oshkosh had put a beat down on Salisbury in their head to head OR if Whitewater had defeated Oshkosh, I would certainly agree with your point, but neither happened.  There were no other major matchups between East and North/West heavyweights upon which to make comparisons.

Except even with those mistakes, Wheaton was a hair away from a semifinal berth, and against a team who's top-five creds don't seem to be in question.  If the Wheaties make that extra point, they're in OT against the Johnnies.  Muhlenberg was... not in danger of going into OT when they played a non-Eastern top ten team.

Muhlenberg doesn't get penalized for anything Wheaton did... they get penalized because when they finally played team from a stronger region, they allowed 486 yards of offense, 293 rushing yards, and 6.8 yards per play.  To use your framing, while at home and on their biggest stage of the season, they gave us a sequence that went pick / 73-yard TD drive / bad snap / one-play TD drive / fumble on kickoff / TD drive.  That is far more egregious than Wheaton's miscues, which came at the end of a close game.  (Side note: please don't make me defend Wheaton.  It feels gross.)

I don't think the Mules were as bad as that sequence showed, but I also think their gaudy defensive stats were largely a product of their schedule and their region, and I can't give the Eastern teams a pass when we see teams like Wabash playing the Cardinals much closer than the Mules did.

Mules made it to the Semis; Crusaders did not.  Sorry about making you defend Wheaton... must suck!  I do know that we will both agree on #1.  I am also thinking about changing my moniker to Stagg Again or Bust.  I just watched the entire game on YouTube TV and the Cardinals still won 41-14.   

Stagg is on FIRE!  I vote for Stagg Again. 

[USee]

I just saw the final Top 25 and was generally fine with the Top 8, but personally would have probably have put NCC #1, Mount #2 and UWW #3, St. Johns #4, Muhlenberg #5, Wheaton #6, Delaware Valley #7, and UMHB #8.

1. North Central
2. Mount
3. Whitewater
4. St. John's
5. Wheaton
6. Delaware Valley
7. UMHB
8. John Carroll
9. Muhlenberg
10. Wartburg

Kiko,
I like your top ten, especially Delaware Valley above Muhlenberg. Only John Carroll gives me pause, I might move Muhlenberg there and Salisbury below them and follow with Wartburg. Certainly possible to make cases the other way. The one I think they got right for sure is NCC as #1 and two CCIW schools in the top ten.

I slid the Mules in at #5 ahead of Wheaton because they they actually made it to the National Semis, only allowed 8 points in the first three rounds of the playoffs, absolutely shut down a good Salisbury team, and only lost to the eventual National Champion.  Wheaton did not make it to the National Semis, had to stage a comeback against SJU just to get into a position to send their game into OT, and then made three crucial mistakes in a row to lose to SJU (penalty, failed XP, and failed XP).  The Mules had a better defense than did SJU, and I don't believe that Wheaton would have defeated Muhlenberg head to head... it certainly would have been a low scoring game.

I had Del Val ahead of UMBH because Del Valley played NCC to a closer score than did UWW (which had defeated UMBH).  Also, I believe that Del Valley would have shut UMBH's offense down head to head.  UMBH v. Del Valley would also have been a low scoring game.

Just so I understand, UWO vs Salisbury is a relevant head to head to say that Muhlenberg would  beat Wheaton, whom NCC throttled? But Wheaton's 14 pt victory over NCC 2 weeks later isn't relevant? And Wheaton can't be that high in your rankings because they didn't make the semis? But Mt Union can be ranked #2 even though they lost in round 2, a week before the Thunder? I think I got it but not sure SMH. .