FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[USee]

In the 5 game playoff series NCC outscored it's opponents by combined scores of 227-109 with almost half (52) of the opposition points being scored in just one game. 🏈a

I'm glad you mentioned this AneOne.  While I was on the flight back from Texas, I was thinking about all of the top defenses I got the opportunity to see this year... Wheaton, Delaware Valley, Mount Union, Muhlenberg, Wisconsin Whitewater (and even Augustana and Illinois Wesleyan in the CCIW).  These groups were all ranked in the Top 75, and each had key strengths.  That said, I am not sure I saw a group that improved as much throughout the year or as good at the end of the season (when things actually mattered) as was North Central's own defense.  From the mid-point of the game against Mount game until the final whistle in Shenandoah the Cardinal's "no-name defense" was the defensive best unit on the field.  I will readily admit that I saw some phenomenal individual defenders (McRae, Nobile, Feaster, McGrath, Harris, James, Schwartz, Rowland, and Ford) that may have been better than anyone in a Cardinal uniform.  That said, the Cardinals ran a gauntlet of Top 10 opponents without giving up more than 14 points per game (or 1/2 game in the case out Mount)!  They outplayed opponent's OLs, shut down top tier running games, held passing games in check and bent, but never broke. 

So much credit for NCC's National Championship has gone to its offense (and deservedly so!), but I wanted to shine a little light on the Cardinal's underrated defensive unit and recognize the role they played in bringing the walnut and bronze to Naperville.  Thank you Gilroy, Rich, Ayhan, and Hyland for your aggressive pursuit of the QB and holding the edge.  Thank you Martin for Ziegler for stuffing the run, staying in your lanes, getting after the QB, and all of those TFLs.  Thank you Butler, Beauchamp, and Wong for filling the wholes, blitzing, and owning the middle of the field and flats.  Thank you Bell, Beesley, Cremeens, and Lindmark for the interceptions and passes defended.  I am looking forward to seeing this unit back in Naperville next fall as one of the top-ranked defenses in the country (with several pre-season All-Conference and All-American nods).

You should give a little credit to the NCAA Committee for giving you a bracket that had only 1 capable team that could pass the ball. That has a lot to do with the performance on defense during the playoffs IMO. But that defense was certainly under rated and did a great job during the playoffs.

Nope, I stick with my earlier comments USee.  I saw them all and think that NCC's defense was the best on the field and in all of D3 during the last 3 1/2 weeks of the season.  During that span, NCC's defense "held" the 2nd Team All North Region/3rd Team All American QB, 1st Team All American WR, and D3's Top Total Offense in check during the 2nd half on the road; the 1st Team All South Region QB and 3rd Team All American TE on the road; a top tier rushing team running behind All-American/All-Conference OL hogs on the road; and an athletic offense with a 1st Team All-American TE at home.  Throw in the fact that those same teams had among the best defenses in country trying to flip the script and keep our D on the field and you get the picture.

I just saw the final Top 25 and was generally fine with the Top 8, but personally would have probably have put NCC #1, Mount #2 and UWW #3, St. Johns #4, Muhlenberg #5, Wheaton #6, Delaware Valley #7, and UMHB #8.

And I stick  with my comments. I pray Shane Dierking is back as DC next year because the teams that can pass with a balanced run game are gonna shred that defense.

Your offense was legit. Your defense played UWW and their 105th ranked offense, Del Val and their 85th ranked  offense, Muhlenberg and their 48th ranked offense.  mt Union and their #1 ranked offense scored 52 and Wheaton and their 10th ranked offense scored 35.  You can't defend good passing teams the way the Cards do. It's structurally unsound, especially without a pass rush.

[New Tradition]

1. NCC
2. Mt. Union
3. St. John's
4. Wheaton
5. UWW
6. UMHB
7. Del Val
8. Muhlenberg
9. Wartburg
10. Salisbury

[New Tradition]

1. NCC
2. Mt. Union
3. St. John's
4. Wheaton
5. UWW
6. UMHB
7. Del Val
8. Muhlenberg
9. Wartburg
10. Salisbury

After sleeping on it:

1. NCC
2. Mt. Union
2.  St. John's
2. Wheaton
5. UWW
6. UMHB
7. Del Val
8. Muhlenberg
9. Wartburg
10. Salisbury

[hazzben]

I just saw the final Top 25 and was generally fine with the Top 8, but personally would have probably have put NCC #1, Mount #2 and UWW #3, St. Johns #4, Muhlenberg #5, Wheaton #6, Delaware Valley #7, and UMHB #8.

1. North Central
2. Mount
3. Whitewater
4. St. John's
5. Wheaton
6. Delaware Valley
7. UMHB
8. John Carroll
9. Muhlenberg
10. Wartburg

Kiko,
I like your top ten, especially Delaware Valley above Muhlenberg. Only John Carroll gives me pause, I might move Muhlenberg there and Salisbury below them and follow with Wartburg. Certainly possible to make cases the other way. The one I think they got right for sure is NCC as #1 and two CCIW schools in the top ten.

I slid the Mules in at #5 ahead of Wheaton because they they actually made it to the National Semis, only allowed 8 points in the first three rounds of the playoffs, absolutely shut down a good Salisbury team, and only lost to the eventual National Champion. Wheaton did not make it to the National Semis, had to stage a comeback against SJU just to get into a position to send their game into OT, and then made three crucial mistakes in a row to lose to SJU (penalty, failed XP, and failed XP).  The Mules had a better defense than did SJU, and I don't believe that Wheaton would have defeated Muhlenberg head to head... it certainly would have been a low scoring game.

Wheaton beats Muhlenberg by 40 points.

This is just silly. Muhlenberg was a good team. But their route to the Semi's was ridiculously easy. I'd take SJU's D over Muhlenberg's any day. And like NCC experienced, when you face really good offenses (Mount, Wheaton), even very good D's give up points. We saw in the Semi's that the Mules 'Elite D' was fools gold, they faced a truly elite offense and got utterly exposed. Wheaton and SJU would have trounced Muhlenberg.

[hazzben]

Steve Ryan just won back to back NAIA National Titles at Morningside. He'd be the top of my wish list if I were Wheaton. Not sure if they can lure him away, but he'd be my first call. Interesting to see how things develop for the Thunder this offseason.

[USee]

Steve Ryan just won back to back NAIA National Titles at Morningside. He'd be the top of my wish list if I were Wheaton. Not sure if they can lure him away, but he'd be my first call. Interesting to see how things develop for the Thunder this offseason.

I like Steve, I think there is more to choosing a coach at Wheaton than just winning.  I am not sure Steve makes the short list for the Wheaton job.  I doubt he would even want it. 

[New Tradition]

Loving the new article that Keith wrote! He spends a significant amount of time talking about John Thorne's dream. Little do most know that this does go back all the way to the beginning. We got thumped on family night under the lights in our conference opener in 2002 by Augie 65-0. At our awards ceremony after the season, he distributed cards to each player that said "What have you done today to beat Augie?" We were to keep them in our wallets at all times. After the 2003 season, we got a second set of cards that said "What have you done today to catch Mount Union and St. John's?" I know many alumni from those squads still have theirs. I had my wallet stolen in 2012 and was more upset about losing those cards than anything else in that wallet. But John Thorne saw this before anyone else.

[ncc_fan]

Two quick thoughts, and they won't be as eloquent as what you read above...

A) If you had told me when I graduated many eons ago that North Central's football team would finish higher on the national stage than its cross country team, my reaction would have been "oh... what a shame that the cross country program has fallen off from where it was".  The idea of hoisting the walnut and bronze was not remotely a consideration.  It's hard to have a playoff team in football given how scarce access to the postseason is.  It's *really* hard to reach the playoffs, let alone be competitive, on a regular basis.  And as NT alludes to above, competing with the purples is in another stratosphere.  Kudos to the current team, and to those who helped establish the foundation and build, brick by brick, the program to where it is today.  This one belongs to all of you.

B) I'm curious as to what other Cardinal supporters think, but IMO the five most important games in the Thorne era (and by extension, since little of note happened in this program prior to 2002, in program history) would be these:

1. 2019 - 59-52 win over Mount Union -- not many teams come out of Alliance with a win, and this opened up all that happened in the past month
3. 2019 - 41-24 Stagg Bowl win over Whitewater
2. 2004 - 31-10 win over Augustana... first proof point that things were different now... you just didn't beat Augie in that era
4. 2013 - 41-40 loss to Mount Union... going toe to toe against D3's alpha program when they blow out most non-purple opponents suggested the gap could be closed
5. 2005 - 21-19 loss to Capital... first-ever playoff game... reaching and being competitive in the playoffs  helped to reset expectations

From this long-time fan's perspective, kiko's list of milestone games looks about right.  I'd like to add to it, though:  two games in 2002.  On multiple occasions I've heard John say that in his first season there were two games (I don't remember the specific ones) which could have gone either way.  He says that getting those two wins let him recruit with a 6-4 record rather than 4-6, and that helped him attract the 2003 recruiting class, men who became the core of John's first CCIW champs in 2006.  Those first years were crucial to getting the team where it is now.

So here's a little thank you to the 2002 North Central College Cardinals.

[USee]

Two quick thoughts, and they won't be as eloquent as what you read above...

A) If you had told me when I graduated many eons ago that North Central's football team would finish higher on the national stage than its cross country team, my reaction would have been "oh... what a shame that the cross country program has fallen off from where it was".  The idea of hoisting the walnut and bronze was not remotely a consideration.  It's hard to have a playoff team in football given how scarce access to the postseason is.  It's *really* hard to reach the playoffs, let alone be competitive, on a regular basis.  And as NT alludes to above, competing with the purples is in another stratosphere.  Kudos to the current team, and to those who helped establish the foundation and build, brick by brick, the program to where it is today.  This one belongs to all of you.

B) I'm curious as to what other Cardinal supporters think, but IMO the five most important games in the Thorne era (and by extension, since little of note happened in this program prior to 2002, in program history) would be these:

1. 2019 - 59-52 win over Mount Union -- not many teams come out of Alliance with a win, and this opened up all that happened in the past month
3. 2019 - 41-24 Stagg Bowl win over Whitewater
2. 2004 - 31-10 win over Augustana... first proof point that things were different now... you just didn't beat Augie in that era
4. 2013 - 41-40 loss to Mount Union... going toe to toe against D3's alpha program when they blow out most non-purple opponents suggested the gap could be closed
5. 2005 - 21-19 loss to Capital... first-ever playoff game... reaching and being competitive in the playoffs  helped to reset expectations

From this long-time fan's perspective, kiko's list of milestone games looks about right.  I'd like to add to it, though:  two games in 2002.  On multiple occasions I've heard John say that in his first season there were two games (I don't remember the specific ones) which could have gone either way.  He says that getting those two wins let him recruit with a 6-4 record rather than 4-6, and that helped him attract the 2003 recruiting class, men who became the core of John's first CCIW champs in 2006.  Those first years were crucial to getting the team where it is now.

So congratulations and thank you to the 2002 North Central College Cardinals.

How about the not so much milestone games?

The Augie FG game
Kam Kins's mono game @ Wheaton
Playoff game vs Franklin

Could be a good list

[robertgoulet]

Loving the new article that Keith wrote! He spends a significant amount of time talking about John Thorne's dream. Little do most know that this does go back all the way to the beginning. We got thumped on family night under the lights in our conference opener in 2002 by Augie 65-0. At our awards ceremony after the season, he distributed cards to each player that said "What have you done today to beat Augie?" We were to keep them in our wallets at all times. After the 2003 season, we got a second set of cards that said "What have you done today to catch Mount Union and St. John's?" I know many alumni from those squads still have theirs. I had my wallet stolen in 2012 and was more upset about losing those cards than anything else in that wallet. But John Thorne saw this before anyone else.

Mentioned before but when I was a freshman in 2000 we got smoked by Millikin at home. I was legitimately worried for the health of the guys on the kick return team. I was told by a friend who was at NCC to play football "by the time we are seniors this will all be different." He was right. Amazing what the program has become.

[CardinalAlum]

Two quick thoughts, and they won't be as eloquent as what you read above...

A) If you had told me when I graduated many eons ago that North Central's football team would finish higher on the national stage than its cross country team, my reaction would have been "oh... what a shame that the cross country program has fallen off from where it was".  The idea of hoisting the walnut and bronze was not remotely a consideration.  It's hard to have a playoff team in football given how scarce access to the postseason is.  It's *really* hard to reach the playoffs, let alone be competitive, on a regular basis.  And as NT alludes to above, competing with the purples is in another stratosphere.  Kudos to the current team, and to those who helped establish the foundation and build, brick by brick, the program to where it is today.  This one belongs to all of you.

B) I'm curious as to what other Cardinal supporters think, but IMO the five most important games in the Thorne era (and by extension, since little of note happened in this program prior to 2002, in program history) would be these:

1. 2019 - 59-52 win over Mount Union -- not many teams come out of Alliance with a win, and this opened up all that happened in the past month
3. 2019 - 41-24 Stagg Bowl win over Whitewater
2. 2004 - 31-10 win over Augustana... first proof point that things were different now... you just didn't beat Augie in that era
4. 2013 - 41-40 loss to Mount Union... going toe to toe against D3's alpha program when they blow out most non-purple opponents suggested the gap could be closed
5. 2005 - 21-19 loss to Capital... first-ever playoff game... reaching and being competitive in the playoffs  helped to reset expectations

From this long-time fan's perspective, kiko's list of milestone games looks about right.  I'd like to add to it, though:  two games in 2002.  On multiple occasions I've heard John say that in his first season there were two games (I don't remember the specific ones) which could have gone either way.  He says that getting those two wins let him recruit with a 6-4 record rather than 4-6, and that helped him attract the 2003 recruiting class, men who became the core of John's first CCIW champs in 2006.  Those first years were crucial to getting the team where it is now.

So congratulations and thank you to the 2002 North Central College Cardinals.

How about the not so much milestone games?

The Augie FG game
Kam Kins's mono game @ Wheaton
Playoff game vs Franklin

Could be a good list

Wheaton playoff game....ugh

[New Tradition]

Two quick thoughts, and they won't be as eloquent as what you read above...

A) If you had told me when I graduated many eons ago that North Central's football team would finish higher on the national stage than its cross country team, my reaction would have been "oh... what a shame that the cross country program has fallen off from where it was".  The idea of hoisting the walnut and bronze was not remotely a consideration.  It's hard to have a playoff team in football given how scarce access to the postseason is.  It's *really* hard to reach the playoffs, let alone be competitive, on a regular basis.  And as NT alludes to above, competing with the purples is in another stratosphere.  Kudos to the current team, and to those who helped establish the foundation and build, brick by brick, the program to where it is today.  This one belongs to all of you.

B) I'm curious as to what other Cardinal supporters think, but IMO the five most important games in the Thorne era (and by extension, since little of note happened in this program prior to 2002, in program history) would be these:

1. 2019 - 59-52 win over Mount Union -- not many teams come out of Alliance with a win, and this opened up all that happened in the past month
3. 2019 - 41-24 Stagg Bowl win over Whitewater
2. 2004 - 31-10 win over Augustana... first proof point that things were different now... you just didn't beat Augie in that era
4. 2013 - 41-40 loss to Mount Union... going toe to toe against D3's alpha program when they blow out most non-purple opponents suggested the gap could be closed
5. 2005 - 21-19 loss to Capital... first-ever playoff game... reaching and being competitive in the playoffs  helped to reset expectations

From this long-time fan's perspective, kiko's list of milestone games looks about right.  I'd like to add to it, though:  two games in 2002.  On multiple occasions I've heard John say that in his first season there were two games (I don't remember the specific ones) which could have gone either way.  He says that getting those two wins let him recruit with a 6-4 record rather than 4-6, and that helped him attract the 2003 recruiting class, men who became the core of John's first CCIW champs in 2006.  Those first years were crucial to getting the team where it is now.

So congratulations and thank you to the 2002 North Central College Cardinals.

Millikin was the signature win that season.

[New Tradition]

Two quick thoughts, and they won't be as eloquent as what you read above...

A) If you had told me when I graduated many eons ago that North Central's football team would finish higher on the national stage than its cross country team, my reaction would have been "oh... what a shame that the cross country program has fallen off from where it was".  The idea of hoisting the walnut and bronze was not remotely a consideration.  It's hard to have a playoff team in football given how scarce access to the postseason is.  It's *really* hard to reach the playoffs, let alone be competitive, on a regular basis.  And as NT alludes to above, competing with the purples is in another stratosphere.  Kudos to the current team, and to those who helped establish the foundation and build, brick by brick, the program to where it is today.  This one belongs to all of you.

B) I'm curious as to what other Cardinal supporters think, but IMO the five most important games in the Thorne era (and by extension, since little of note happened in this program prior to 2002, in program history) would be these:

1. 2019 - 59-52 win over Mount Union -- not many teams come out of Alliance with a win, and this opened up all that happened in the past month
3. 2019 - 41-24 Stagg Bowl win over Whitewater
2. 2004 - 31-10 win over Augustana... first proof point that things were different now... you just didn't beat Augie in that era
4. 2013 - 41-40 loss to Mount Union... going toe to toe against D3's alpha program when they blow out most non-purple opponents suggested the gap could be closed
5. 2005 - 21-19 loss to Capital... first-ever playoff game... reaching and being competitive in the playoffs  helped to reset expectations

From this long-time fan's perspective, kiko's list of milestone games looks about right.  I'd like to add to it, though:  two games in 2002.  On multiple occasions I've heard John say that in his first season there were two games (I don't remember the specific ones) which could have gone either way.  He says that getting those two wins let him recruit with a 6-4 record rather than 4-6, and that helped him attract the 2003 recruiting class, men who became the core of John's first CCIW champs in 2006.  Those first years were crucial to getting the team where it is now.

So congratulations and thank you to the 2002 North Central College Cardinals.

How about the not so much milestone games?

The Augie FG game
Kam Kins's mono game @ Wheaton
Playoff game vs Franklin

Could be a good list

Listen... 

[Stagg Again!!]

1. 2019 - 59-52 win over Mount Union -- not many teams come out of Alliance with a win, and this opened up all that happened in the past month
3. 2019 - 41-24 Stagg Bowl win over Whitewater
2. 2004 - 31-10 win over Augustana... first proof point that things were different now... you just didn't beat Augie in that era
4. 2013 - 41-40 loss to Mount Union... going toe to toe against D3's alpha program when they blow out most non-purple opponents suggested the gap could be closed
5. 2005 - 21-19 loss to Capital... first-ever playoff game... reaching and being competitive in the playoffs  helped to reset expectations

Wholeheartedly agree with this entire list!

NT and Kiko, I would agree with this list, but if we focus only on the John Thorne era (thus eliminating the obvious #1 and #2), I would submit the following three for consideration:
a.  2007 - 44-42 win over Franklin on the road... Fanthorpe to Hlavac as time ran out with the Franklin fans rushing the field... gave the Cardinals a chance to play one of the Purple Powers for the first time with a second round trip to UWW.
b. 2010 - 20-10 loss to UWW at home... gave Cardinals confidence that they were getting closer to being able to being able to compete with Mount and UWW and a huge step forward from the 2007 outcome at UWW.
c. 2011 - 29-28 loss to Wabash on the road... left everyone with a bad taste and a drive to win... everyone was still talking about that game going into this year's playoffs. 

[GoIrish7]

In the 5 game playoff series NCC outscored it's opponents by combined scores of 227-109 with almost half (52) of the opposition points being scored in just one game. 🏈a

I'm glad you mentioned this AneOne.  While I was on the flight back from Texas, I was thinking about all of the top defenses I got the opportunity to see this year... Wheaton, Delaware Valley, Mount Union, Muhlenberg, Wisconsin Whitewater (and even Augustana and Illinois Wesleyan in the CCIW).  These groups were all ranked in the Top 75, and each had key strengths.  That said, I am not sure I saw a group that improved as much throughout the year or as good at the end of the season (when things actually mattered) as was North Central's own defense.  From the mid-point of the game against Mount game until the final whistle in Shenandoah the Cardinal's "no-name defense" was the defensive best unit on the field.  I will readily admit that I saw some phenomenal individual defenders (McRae, Nobile, Feaster, McGrath, Harris, James, Schwartz, Rowland, and Ford) that may have been better than anyone in a Cardinal uniform.  That said, the Cardinals ran a gauntlet of Top 10 opponents without giving up more than 14 points per game (or 1/2 game in the case out Mount)!  They outplayed opponent's OLs, shut down top tier running games, held passing games in check and bent, but never broke. 

So much credit for NCC's National Championship has gone to its offense (and deservedly so!), but I wanted to shine a little light on the Cardinal's underrated defensive unit and recognize the role they played in bringing the walnut and bronze to Naperville.  Thank you Gilroy, Rich, Ayhan, and Hyland for your aggressive pursuit of the QB and holding the edge.  Thank you Martin for Ziegler for stuffing the run, staying in your lanes, getting after the QB, and all of those TFLs.  Thank you Butler, Beauchamp, and Wong for filling the wholes, blitzing, and owning the middle of the field and flats.  Thank you Bell, Beesley, Cremeens, and Lindmark for the interceptions and passes defended.  I am looking forward to seeing this unit back in Naperville next fall as one of the top-ranked defenses in the country (with several pre-season All-Conference and All-American nods).

You should give a little credit to the NCAA Committee for giving you a bracket that had only 1 capable team that could pass the ball. That has a lot to do with the performance on defense during the playoffs IMO. But that defense was certainly under rated and did a great job during the playoffs.

Nope, I stick with my earlier comments USee.  I saw them all and think that NCC's defense was the best on the field and in all of D3 during the last 3 1/2 weeks of the season.  During that span, NCC's defense "held" the 2nd Team All North Region/3rd Team All American QB, 1st Team All American WR, and D3's Top Total Offense in check during the 2nd half on the road; the 1st Team All South Region QB and 3rd Team All American TE on the road; a top tier rushing team running behind All-American/All-Conference OL hogs on the road; and an athletic offense with a 1st Team All-American TE at home.  Throw in the fact that those same teams had among the best defenses in country trying to flip the script and keep our D on the field and you get the picture.

I just saw the final Top 25 and was generally fine with the Top 8, but personally would have probably have put NCC #1, Mount #2 and UWW #3, St. Johns #4, Muhlenberg #5, Wheaton #6, Delaware Valley #7, and UMHB #8.

And I stick  with my comments. I pray Shane Dierking is back as DC next year because the teams that can pass with a balanced run game are gonna shred that defense.

Your offense was legit. Your defense played UWW and their 105th ranked offense, Del Val and their 85th ranked  offense, Muhlenberg and their 48th ranked offense.  mt Union and their #1 ranked offense scored 52 and Wheaton and their 10th ranked offense scored 35.  You can't defend good passing teams the way the Cards do. It's structurally unsound, especially without a pass rush.

I pray he is back as well for the conferences sake. His defenses have been fun to watch.  He was heavily targeted by schools at upper levels in years past for jobs that he passed on to work at NCC. I love what NCC has done with their staff, I see Wheaton does it as well. Hire alumni to run the program because they are invested and wont leave at the first jump for a pay raise/higher job.

In terms of the structure of the defense they rely heavily on press quarters and mix in variations of coverage behind it...... It is actually the same defense that Wheaton runs. Wheaton just runs it out of a 3 down front with stand up OLB's and NCC runs its out of a 4 down front. The coverage behind it is going to rely on man principals which is where the big plays result from. If you have better athletes than the opposing team I would argue it is the best Defense you can put on paper to defend both the run and the pass.

Wheaton has done an outstanding job digging up quarters beaters. Credit their OC and probably entire staff. Have to imagine their staff gets together during NCC week and the defensive coaches let them know new concepts they are seeing on a week to week basis that give them problems because Wheaton seems to have a playbook set aside of quarters beaters. They ran some nasty beaters that are almost impossible to stop in that coverage. With the Mount Union game, I think that is an example of a game where NCC may have just been out athleted on the defensive side of the ball. Alot of contested catches on NCC defenders or just speed outrunning NCC guys. They changed to zone coverage(cov 2, some fire zone pressures) and that is when Mount's QB started getting loose so they went back to quarters.

Lastly, I would argue that NCC had the toughest go to get to Texas, Mount in the 2nd round was a semi final type matchup. Mary Hardin Baylor in a close second for toughest road.