FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[ncc_fan]

Bebbe couldn't have asked for a worse result for the future of his program.  Wheaton has it's niche with nationwide recruiting and the Thornes have been cleaning up the suburbs for a while now.  For Aurora to make the next step, he had to prove he could compete to draw them away.

Perhaps, but John Thorne seemed to do ok after receiving a 0-65 welcoming gift in 2002 from Augustana, the program 'cleaning up the suburbs' at that time.  Per JT, a big factor in his subsequent recruiting success was not the single result vs Augie, but rather the Cards' 6-4 record in 2002 after many sub-0.500 seasons. That helped him persuade recruits that the program was turning around.  Beebe can surely make that argument for his AU program.

[Next Man Up]

Bebbe couldn't have asked for a worse result for the future of his program.  Wheaton has it's niche with nationwide recruiting and the Thornes have been cleaning up the suburbs for a while now.  For Aurora to make the next step, he had to prove he could compete to draw them away.

Perhaps, but John Thorne seemed to do ok after receiving a 0-65 welcoming gift in 2002 from Augustana, the program 'cleaning up the suburbs' at that time.  Per JT, a big factor in his subsequent recruiting success was not the single result vs Augie, but rather the Cards' 6-4 record in 2002 after many sub-0.500 seasons. That helped him persuade recruits that the program was turning around. Beebe can surely make that argument for his AU program.

And, with regard to bringing the complete picture into focus, one must recognize the fact that as part of his recruiting pitch there is no doubt that Beebe will mention his past professional experience and subsequent contacts as part of his recruiting pitch. This is really no surprise as it's pretty logical that anyone with the talent to achieve professional status would make such past experience a part of his recruiting pitch. The question then becomes whether the recruit will recognize the fact that although he is being recruited by a former professional, he is being recruited to D3 Aurora, as opposed to a major D1 program, a galaxy closer to possible professional ascendancy.
Furthermore, when I say "recruit" I mean not only incoming freshmen, but players already on rosters of other schools who Beebe hopes he can persuade to transfer to Aurora.

Specifically, concerning any future recruiting battles with CCIW member institutions, it's doubtful that Beebe's recruiting pitch will include the fact that Aurora is ranked #298-389 in the US News & World Report National University category, a ranking which pales considerably when compared to where CCIW schools rank within their respective categories.

[Marmac]

Why are two consecutive Little Brass Bell games being played at Wheaton? And why is the game being played so early in the season?

I can't imagine the Monon Bell game being played in September. And do you think either DePauw or Wabash would allow the game to be played at the same school two consecutive times?

Can't address the reason why the game is being played in Wheaton for two consecutive seasons.  I know that Augie is playing at NCC, Wheaton, IWU and Carthage, just like the did in 2019 so it's not like there aren't other teams having the same thing happen.  As to why the game is being played early in the season, it's because, outside of the Wheaton and NCC communities, the Little Brass Bell is not that well known of a rivalry game.  It's only really become more important in the 15 years (or so), when NCC's ascension to consistently being at the top of the CCIW, began.  Football has been played in the CCIW for a lot longer than that.  NCC won the conference title in 1960 and didn't win again until 2006.  Starting from that same 1960 season, Wheaton did not win a conference championship until 1995 and then won or were co-champions in 00, 02, 03, 04 and 06.  When I played in the 1980s, I had never heard of the Little Brass Bell.  Historically, it has just not been that important of game (outside of the participating schools) to warrant that it always be the last game of the season for both teams.

Wheaton and NCC have been consistently excellent the past two decades. Was NCC QB Luke Lehnen even alive the last time either school had a losing record (2001)? The two schools have dominated the CCIW this century, and they are each school's main rival -- and not just in football. By scheduling this game in mid-September, the CCIW sends a message, albeit unintentionally, that it doesn't view it as a big rivalry game. What other conference rivalry games are played in September?

[Next Man Up]

Of course I could be wrong, Marmac, but me thinks the answer to your question is none. 🤷🏻‍♂️
Also, I'd love to know under which Conference Commissioner the scheduling of this game took place.
Was it under Chris Martin's watch or current Overseer Maureen Harty??

[ncc_fan]

One can find examples of both random and non-random scheduling of rivalry games, even games which are arguably 'bigger' than the Little Brass Bell game. The Monon Bell game is always a big game for both schools, attracting huge crowds regardless of the teams' records.  But the rest of the NCAC schedule appears to follow no set pattern.  I strongly suspect that a final week Monon Bell game was carved in stone as a condition of Wabash joining the NCAC in 1999.  The Tommie-Johnnie game (RIP) was equally huge, but seemed to get no special treatment from the MIAC's scheduling software.

[Gregory Sager]

Bebbe couldn't have asked for a worse result for the future of his program.  Wheaton has it's niche with nationwide recruiting and the Thornes have been cleaning up the suburbs for a while now.  For Aurora to make the next step, he had to prove he could compete to draw them away.

Perhaps, but John Thorne seemed to do ok after receiving a 0-65 welcoming gift in 2002 from Augustana, the program 'cleaning up the suburbs' at that time.  Per JT, a big factor in his subsequent recruiting success was not the single result vs Augie, but rather the Cards' 6-4 record in 2002 after many sub-0.500 seasons. That helped him persuade recruits that the program was turning around.  Beebe can surely make that argument for his AU program.

I think it's bigger than that. For all the strides Beebe has made, he'd still be fighting an uphill battle on the recruiting trail even if his Spartans had pulled off the big upset. Prospects don't just pick a school, they pick the league that the school is in, because the better leagues use that as part of their recruiting pitch. The CCIW is not only better than the NACC in terms of level of play, it's one of the premier leagues in all of D3. The NACC, to be brutally honest, is a lower-tier circuit in terms of D3 football whose one and only representative in the annual playoffs is always a first-round sacrificial lamb. It's never won a playoff game, and the NACC rep has only finished within 17 points of the team that's beaten it in the first round on three occasions (2004, 2012, and 2019).

If you're a high-school senior, you're choosing between playing the likes of Wheaton, Millikin, Wash U, and Illinois Wesleyan every year versus playing the likes of Benedictine, the two Concordias, Eureka, and Lakeland. You can't tell me that that doesn't make a difference for a lot of prospects. It's why, with a few exceptions (e.g., Dominican in men's soccer for a stretch of about a decade or so, Concordia IL in baseball for roughly the same amount of time, and one impossibly magical season for Benedictine on the hardwood half a decade ago) the NACC doesn't really produce teams that can make any kind of a dent on the D3 national scene. It's simply too hard for them to recruit the same territory as the CCIW (and the Wisconsin-based NACC schools have the added difficulty of recruiting against the WIAC) to produce the volume of good D3-level talent necessary to get that kind of success and then sustain it.

Why are two consecutive Little Brass Bell games being played at Wheaton? And why is the game being played so early in the season?

I can't imagine the Monon Bell game being played in September. And do you think either DePauw or Wabash would allow the game to be played at the same school two consecutive times?

The CCIW isn't the NCAC, that's why.

Do you really think that this league revolves around Wheaton and North Central? Do you really think that any coaches, ADs, or presidents of the other CCIW schools are going to give special favors in terms of scheduling to two specific schools and tell everybody else to work around that dispensation? The CCIW doesn't operate that way.

Illinois Wesleyan and Millikin -- a football rivalry that dates back to 1904 -- used to be the rivalry that mattered in this league, not North Central and Wheaton. Did the CCIW's schedulemaker thus design the schedule so that the two downstate schools automatically played each other in the last game of the season? No. IWU vs. MU went into the same CCIW master-schedule process as every other game.

Yeah, the CCIW "sends a message," all right. The message is that every member institution gets treated the same -- no better, no worse.

Of course I could be wrong, Marmac, but me thinks the answer to your question is none. 🤷🏻‍♂️
Also, I'd love to know under which Conference Commissioner the scheduling of this game took place.
Was it under Chris Martin's watch or current Overseer Maureen Harty??

CCIW scheduling used to be done in-house, but I think that most (if not all) CCIW sports now have their schedules prepared by a consultant. I remember that the wife of former Lake Forest men's basketball head coach Chris Conger was contracted to produce league schedules for some or all of the CCIW's sports at one point.

We can find examples of both random and non-random scheduling of rivalry games, even with games which are arguably 'bigger' than the Little Brass Bell game. The Monon Bell game is always a big game for both schools, attracting huge crowds regardless of the teams' records.  But the rest of the NCAC schedule appears to follow no set pattern. I strongly suspect that a final week Monon Bell game was carved in stone as a condition of Wabash joining the NCAC in 1999. The Tommie-Johnnie game (RIP) was equally huge, but seemed to get no special treatment from the MIAC's scheduling software.

This.

[USee]

The CCIW schedule was supposed to have NCC host Wheaton last year. Those two schools chose not to play football. All of the schools that played last spring followed the 2020 scheduling that was subsequent to 2019. Because of that, those schools who played are home/away/home. So Wheaton v NCC is following the same pattern for the rest of the league.

The CCIW also shuffles its shedule every 6 years I believe. Next year Wheaton is @NCC in the middle of the CCIW schedule in early October.

[CardinalAlum]

Cards game Saturday was pretty special.  The moment of silence for the 9/11 remembrance was as quiet as you can imagine.  It was great seeing the Cards back on the field for the first time since 2019.  Tailgates were plentiful, the stands were almost full.  I will say Aurora fans traveled well.  The anticipation of playing their first game against #21 Aurora, with a game under their belt, where they played well against a top ranked opponent, was definitely the chatter before the game.  How quick would the Cards shake off first game jitters? How would Lehnen, the first year QB, do stepping into the biggest pair of shoes ever worn at the NCC QB position?  Finding out we would be starting true freshmen on the right side of the O-Line only added to the anticipation.  Lehnen was every bit as good as we hoped.  He made some outstanding throws and didn't turn the ball over.  Greenfield was stronger and faster than 2019.  He ran hard and through many Spartan defenders. Hill was very good as well in the running game. The WR group looked as good as expected.  The offensive line controlled the LOS throughout the game and AU couldn't stop the run. The right side of the O line held up extremely well I would say! I hope people appreciate watching Sharmore Clark at left guard as much as I do. One of the best O-linemen in the country and arguably the best in school history. Defensively, the Cards looked organized, fast and tackled as well as I can remember. Coach Dierking's crew made Zimbelman human for an evening after his last game and previous seasons. Pressure up front moved him off of his mark early and often. Gilroy and Rich were constantly in the backfield.  Martin, Greifelt, Brinkman and the rest of the rotating defensive line controlled the inside and gave a great push all night.  Wong and Simmons were all over the field making plays and Taviani had a great interception in the end zone.  The secondary was very good and made the evening tough on the AU WR's.  Beesley, Cremeens and Lindmark were as good as they always have been. I though Rummel at CB was great.  Moving over from WR, he showed very well in his first start.  The kicking situation was a bit sketchy.  Hoping we get that ironed out this week as that could prove big. All in all, a great first game. So many kids saw the field in much of the 3rd and all of the 4th quarters.  I thought Jake Johnson did a great job coming in and leading multiple scoring drives.  Many good looking first year running backs and WR's.  Game one is in the books.  It's Bell Week!

[CardinalAlum]

Bell week!  Each team has a game under their belts, and Wheaton had an extra week to prepare.  Hoping for the amazing game that it is setting up to be.  The two programs that have consistently been at the top of the conference and perennial top 10 nationally over the last however many years, going at it in week 1 of the CCIW slate.  Wheaton's outstanding defense will be much different than what the Cards saw this week.  Expecting a really physical game as always and a great showcase for D3 football!  I'm sure there will be more as the week goes on.  No SoDup or Wheaties stuff this week from me.  Two programs that respect each other and know each other well playing for the Bell, a top 3 ranking, a top regional seed and a jump on the CCIW conference race.

[hazzben]

Please excuse the MIAC interloper.

Outside of it sadly being played this early in the season, is this the biggest Little Brass Bell game of all time? Probably the best two teams in terms of talent, yes? Maybe 2019 was better. But you've also got NCC as defending National Champs, and yet Wheaton won the regular season matchup. Y'all would know better than me, but this is the first time they've both been ranked in the Top 5 correct?

Loving that Bethel's on a bye so I can tune in to watch!

[USee]

Please excuse the MIAC interloper.

Outside of it sadly being played this early in the season, is this the biggest Little Brass Bell game of all time? Probably the best two teams in terms of talent, yes? Maybe 2019 was better. But you've also got NCC as defending National Champs, and yet Wheaton won the regular season matchup. Y'all would know better than me, but this is the first time they've both been ranked in the Top 5 correct?

Loving that Bethel's on a bye so I can tune in to watch!

2019 was a high quality game from start to finish. Wheaton was ranked #9 and NCC #5 going in. That was an instant classic. Probably more hype going into this game than that one, given the circumstances.  This is likely going to be the highest profile Bell game ever.

[CardinalAlum]

Please excuse the MIAC interloper.

Outside of it sadly being played this early in the season, is this the biggest Little Brass Bell game of all time? Probably the best two teams in terms of talent, yes? Maybe 2019 was better. But you've also got NCC as defending National Champs, and yet Wheaton won the regular season matchup. Y'all would know better than me, but this is the first time they've both been ranked in the Top 5 correct?

Loving that Bethel's on a bye so I can tune in to watch!

You're always welcome! I enjoy the MIAC page and your regular contributions!  This one is a biggie.  I want to say there have been times both have been top 10 but this very well may be the first both are top 5.  USee may recall.  He's pretty on top of things around here!  Lots of returning seniors plus for Wheaton and NCC.  None of the current Cards have seen the Bell other than the vision of it being carried in and out by the Thunder captains.  There will be lots of motivation on both sides.  Remember that Wheaton put the only L on the Cards championship season and were a crazy ending vs St Johns away from the semifinals themselves. They absolutely could've been the team leaving Texas with a national championship.

[Stagg Again!!]

Please excuse the MIAC interloper.

Outside of it sadly being played this early in the season, is this the biggest Little Brass Bell game of all time? Probably the best two teams in terms of talent, yes? Maybe 2019 was better. But you've also got NCC as defending National Champs, and yet Wheaton won the regular season matchup. Y'all would know better than me, but this is the first time they've both been ranked in the Top 5 correct?

Loving that Bethel's on a bye so I can tune in to watch!

2019 was a high quality game from start to finish. Wheaton was ranked #9 and NCC #5 going in. That was an instant classic. Probably more hype going into this game than that one, given the circumstances.  This is likely going to be the highest profile Bell game ever.

I would agree with USee on this one... lots of hype and high profile, but, as Alum said, lots of respect.  There will be no less than ten pre-season All-Americans and multiple D3 OPOY/DPOY candidates on the field (and likely more by the end of the year).  Hoping for a well-played, injury-free game on both sides of the ball.  Would love to see the CCIW get multiple representatives in the playoffs with deep runs.

[Kovo]

Please excuse the MIAC interloper.

Outside of it sadly being played this early in the season, is this the biggest Little Brass Bell game of all time? Probably the best two teams in terms of talent, yes? Maybe 2019 was better. But you've also got NCC as defending National Champs, and yet Wheaton won the regular season matchup. Y'all would know better than me, but this is the first time they've both been ranked in the Top 5 correct?

Loving that Bethel's on a bye so I can tune in to watch!

2019 was a high quality game from start to finish. Wheaton was ranked #9 and NCC #5 going in. That was an instant classic. Probably more hype going into this game than that one, given the circumstances.  This is likely going to be the highest profile Bell game ever.

I would agree with USee on this one... lots of hype and high profile, but, as Alum said, lots of respect.  There will be no less than ten pre-season All-Americans and multiple D3 OPOY/DPOY candidates on the field (and likely more by the end of the year).  Hoping for a well-played, injury-free game on both sides of the ball.  Would love to see the CCIW get multiple representatives in the playoffs with deep runs.

Both teams are very talented.  Wheaton O-line is outstanding.  I'm going to go back and re-watch their opening games to see how the Cards match up in the trenches.

[USee]

There has been a number of times either Wheaton or NCC were ranked in the top 5 going into the LBB game. This is the first time that I remember that both were top 5 going in. The previous best was 2008 when Wheaton was #4 and NCC was #7. Wheaton lost that game and the next week vs Elmhurst before making it's notorious run to the semis as the last team in the field at 8-2. NCC lost that year in the second round at home to Franklin (whom Wheaton beat on the road the next week to get to the semis)