FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[CardinalAlum]

When's the last time that anybody put up 62 points against Illinois Wesleyan? Today's game at Keller Field wasn't nearly as close as the final score indicated; it was 48-7 going into the fourth quarter, and Dustin Hass liberally emptied the Firebirds bench in the final stanza.

NCC hung 69 on the team in green in '19 (6 of those coming on that SportsCenter Top 10 play from Andrew Kamienski). Wasn't that the game where Norm Eash made some comment about NCC not being that much better than his squad?

I think that you are absolutely correct sir.   I also think that is is apparent that the game has passed Norm by, and that long cold autumns of darkness are descending upon Weenieville.

On another note, the attendance at North Central yesterday is reported as 4955.  This is up from the 4700 or so against Aurora (For comparison Illinois State vs. Southern Illinois drew 8618 yesterday).  To me, that is some great news.  Obviously, this is the Golden Era of North Central football, but to see the growing interest in the program and CCIW games is really heart warming.  I hope that the Cardinals keep marching toward sellout crowds, since it will be fun for both teams (a little more fun for the Cardinals I suppose). 

A CCIW game will never be the Tommies vs. the Johnnies of the not so distant past, but I love small stadiums packed with enthusiastic fans.  A real benefit to everyone involved.  Not sure who else around the country is really packing them in.  Maybe some you guys who are more plugged into the national scene can comment.

It was homecoming, plus perfect weather and hall of fame induction day.  Probably a bit inflated but attendance I'm sure will continue to be very good. 

[Kovo]

When's the last time that anybody put up 62 points against Illinois Wesleyan? Today's game at Keller Field wasn't nearly as close as the final score indicated; it was 48-7 going into the fourth quarter, and Dustin Hass liberally emptied the Firebirds bench in the final stanza.

NCC hung 69 on the team in green in '19 (6 of those coming on that SportsCenter Top 10 play from Andrew Kamienski). Wasn't that the game where Norm Eash made some comment about NCC not being that much better than his squad?

I think that you are absolutely correct sir.   I also think that is is apparent that the game has passed Norm by, and that long cold autumns of darkness are descending upon Weenieville.

On another note, the attendance at North Central yesterday is reported as 4955.  This is up from the 4700 or so against Aurora (For comparison Illinois State vs. Southern Illinois drew 8618 yesterday).  To me, that is some great news.  Obviously, this is the Golden Era of North Central football, but to see the growing interest in the program and CCIW games is really heart warming.  I hope that the Cardinals keep marching toward sellout crowds, since it will be fun for both teams (a little more fun for the Cardinals I suppose). 

A CCIW game will never be the Tommies vs. the Johnnies of the not so distant past, but I love small stadiums packed with enthusiastic fans.  A real benefit to everyone involved.  Not sure who else around the country is really packing them in.  Maybe some you guys who are more plugged into the national scene can comment.

It was homecoming, plus perfect weather and hall of fame induction day.  Probably a bit inflated but attendance I'm sure will continue to be very good.

You're probably right but just a shade under 10k in two home dates is pretty good.  I would hope that the excitement continues to build.

[Gregory Sager]

When's the last time that anybody put up 62 points against Illinois Wesleyan? Today's game at Keller Field wasn't nearly as close as the final score indicated; it was 48-7 going into the fourth quarter, and Dustin Hass liberally emptied the Firebirds bench in the final stanza.

NCC hung 69 on the team in green in '19 (6 of those coming on that SportsCenter Top 10 play from Andrew Kamienski). Wasn't that the game where Norm Eash made some comment about NCC not being that much better than his squad?

I think that you are absolutely correct sir.   I also think that is is apparent that the game has passed Norm by, and that long cold autumns of darkness are descending upon Weenieville.

Context is everything, though. It's one thing to give up 69 points to the eventual national champion, especially when your team winds up going 6-3 in the league and ties for third place. It's another thing entirely to give up 62 points to this Carthage team. Not to rain on the parade of the Firebirds, but we're talking about the same Carthage team that three weeks earlier was whipped by UW-Whitewater, 46-7, in a game that was 41-0 at the half -- which gives us a good indication of how the Kenoshans will fare against NCC (and Wheaton) this season. Then, last week, Carthage was stuck in a competitive game against an Elmhurst squad that might not win a game this season; the Firebirds were only up 20-17 in the fourth quarter before they scored twice to put away the 'jays. All of which goes to say that Carthage will finish somewhere in the middle of the CCIW pack this season, most likely in the #4-#6 range. And it's a horse of a different color when a team like that is hanging sixty-plus points on you than it is when the Naperville juggernaut is doing it.

I don't think that many people who lack a wardrobe filled with green clothing will shed any tears about Illinois Wesleyan being down, though. As anybody who has ever read this board knows, Norm Eash doesn't engender warm thoughts from a lot of folks who root for, or are affiliated with, other CCIW football programs.

[cciwman]

Just did a quick search of the current IWU roster.  Check out the number of players from the cities in which the largest school conference in the area (Big 12) reside.

• 0 - Danville, Urbana
• 1 - Champaign, Peoria, Normal, Decatur
• 2 - Peoria

Compare to other programs who recruit their areas or Wheaton with their niche of nationwide recruting.  North Central has 2 starting linebackers and a starting safety from Normal Community (10 minutes from IWU).  The Beesley kid is from Champaign.

If you aren't going to continue to work your geographic area, you had better bring in some top talent and their performance the two seasons now has been bad.  Time for a change in Green leadership if they are going to be competitive at all.

[Gregory Sager]

Illinois Wesleyan does recruit a fair number of mid-state players in the various sports it sponsors, but the bread-and-butter recruiting area for all Titans sports (aside from men's lacrosse) is the exact same area mined by the rest of the league (Wheaton excepted): the Chicagoland suburbs.

[cciwman]

Illinois Wesleyan does recruit a fair number of mid-state players in the various sports it sponsors, but the bread-and-butter recruiting area for all Titans sports (aside from men's lacrosse) is the exact same area mined by the rest of the league (Wheaton excepted): the Chicagoland suburbs.

Great point ...And look at how the basketball team has done there.  They have gone with the opposite approach, hitting the local high schools to get some of their best talent from Central Illinois.  To exclude that when you typically talent rich programs annually in Peoria and Normal and go hard there makes no sense.

[Augie6]

Illinois Wesleyan does recruit a fair number of mid-state players in the various sports it sponsors, but the bread-and-butter recruiting area for all Titans sports (aside from men's lacrosse) is the exact same area mined by the rest of the league (Wheaton excepted): the Chicagoland suburbs.

Great point ...And look at how the basketball team has done there.  They have gone with the opposite approach, hitting the local high schools to get some of their best talent from Central Illinois.  To exclude that when you typically talent rich programs annually in Peoria and Normal and go hard there makes no sense.

Should go without saying that what works for recruiting in basketball doesn't mean it will work for football, due to the huge difference in the number of players that need to be recruited for both sports.  If you are a school within 3-4 hours of the Chicago area and you're not heavily recruiting the Chicago suburbs, you're probably not going to see much success on the field.  That's not saying that there aren't good players coming out of larger schools in Central IL (or some of the smaller schools for that matter), but there is a huge difference in the number of players that can be effective D3 players coming out of the Chicago area vs larger schools in Central IL.  I'd also be very surprised if IWU wasn't recruiting those local players in the areas you mentioned.  However, I also wouldn't be surprised if some of those players would rather attend a school that is a little removed from their home area as opposed to attending college in the same area they grew up in.  Hard to overcome that, if that is what a recruit is looking for. 

[Gregory Sager]

Illinois Wesleyan does recruit a fair number of mid-state players in the various sports it sponsors, but the bread-and-butter recruiting area for all Titans sports (aside from men's lacrosse) is the exact same area mined by the rest of the league (Wheaton excepted): the Chicagoland suburbs.

Great point ...And look at how the basketball team has done there.  They have gone with the opposite approach, hitting the local high schools to get some of their best talent from Central Illinois.  To exclude that when you typically talent rich programs annually in Peoria and Normal and go hard there makes no sense.

Should go without saying that what works for recruiting in basketball doesn't mean it will work for football, due to the huge difference in the number of players that need to be recruited for both sports.  If you are a school within 3-4 hours of the Chicago area and you're not heavily recruiting the Chicago suburbs, you're probably not going to see much success on the field.  That's not saying that there aren't good players coming out of larger schools in Central IL (or some of the smaller schools for that matter), but there is a huge difference in the number of players that can be effective D3 players coming out of the Chicago area vs larger schools in Central IL.  I'd also be very surprised if IWU wasn't recruiting those local players in the areas you mentioned.  However, I also wouldn't be surprised if some of those players would rather attend a school that is a little removed from their home area as opposed to attending college in the same area they grew up in.  Hard to overcome that, if that is what a recruit is looking for.

Exactly. And it's not as though IWU men's basketball coach Ron Rose is going with "the opposite approach" at all. He does seem to hit other recruiting areas, including St. Louis as well as Peoria and Bloormal, more than Norm Eash does, for reasons Augie6 described. Every crossroads with a stoplight in this state has a high-school basketball team, but when you need to recruit in volume, as a football coach does, you go where the most high-school football teams are located within a single concentrated area. But it's not an "opposite approach" at all -- just a modestly different approach. Rose still works the 'burbs heavily in recruiting, as does every single IWU head coach in every single IWU sport, aside from (as I mentioned) men's lacrosse.

Aside from the outlier of men's lacrosse, and one single school (Wheaton), if you're a CCIW coach in any sport you're going to be wandering through the subdivisions and strip malls of Rolling Meadows, Palos Heights, Buffalo Grove, Crystal Lake, Skokie, Lombard, Libertyville, Midlothian, Schaumburg, Downers Grove, etc., looking for your future players. Doesn't mean that that's where they all come from, of course. But that's where you're going to spend a huge chunk of your time as a recruiter. Why? Because seven million people live in the Chicagoland suburbs, that's why.

[WUPHF]

I don't think that many people who lack a wardrobe filled with green clothing will shed any tears about Illinois Wesleyan being down, though.

Aside from the outlier of men's lacrosse, and one single school (Wheaton), if you're a CCIW coach in any sport you're going to be wandering through the subdivisions and strip malls of Rolling Meadows, Palos Heights, Buffalo Grove, Crystal Lake, Skokie, Lombard, Libertyville, Midlothian, Schaumburg, Downers Grove, etc., looking for your future players.

Ahem!

[Gregory Sager]

Sorry, WUPHF. I keep forgetting that there's a second green team in the CCIW in this sport. Seems like most of the time that I see a Bears team in whatever sport it's wearing red rather than green, anyway.

And, yes, Wash U is an outlier for football recruiting as well. For that matter, my own alma mater is becoming more and more of a football recruiting outlier, too, for reasons I've mentioned many times before. Only about a quarter of NPU's current roster consists of kids from the 'burbs, with the biggest number being out-of-staters. But that's a relatively new trend. We'll see if the trend holds up.

But the larger point remains.

[WUPHF]

It is true, red and white (and black) have been the go-to colors for many of the Bears programs with Men's Basketball being the exception.

[Mr. Ypsi]

It looks like this will be an historically bad football season for the Titans.  They have NEVER finished deal last - could this be the year it finally happens?  (Probably not; I think they will be at least slight favorites over NPU and Elmhurst, but I wouldn't put money on the Titans in either game. )

It's a good thing for my spirits and ego that IWU has always been (and probably always will be) a basketball-first school!

[Mr. Ypsi]

And go a bit lighter on the Norm-bashing.  One big reason why IWU NEVER finishes dead last is stability - they have had exactly TWO head football coaches in the last SIXTY-SIX years (Don Larson for 33 years, and now Norm Eash for 33).

[Stagg Again!!]

And go a bit lighter on the Norm-bashing.  One big reason why IWU NEVER finishes dead last is stability - they have had exactly TWO head football coaches in the last SIXTY-SIX years (Don Larson for 33 years, and now Norm Eash for 33).

Stat of the day... thanks Ypsi.

[Gregory Sager]

It looks like this will be an historically bad football season for the Titans.  They have NEVER finished deal last - could this be the year it finally happens?

It's hard to finish dead last in football when you're in a league that includes a program that hasn't had a winning season since gas cost 15 cents a gallon, Nixon and Humphrey were duking it out at the ballot box, and "Hey Jude" was the #1 song on the Billboard Hot 100.

It's a good thing for my spirits and ego that IWU has always been (and probably always will be) a basketball-first school!

Actually, in terms of walnut-and-bronze hardware, Illinois Wesleyan is a women's track-&-field-first school.

And go a bit lighter on the Norm-bashing.  One big reason why IWU NEVER finishes dead last is stability - they have had exactly TWO head football coaches in the last SIXTY-SIX years (Don Larson for 33 years, and now Norm Eash for 33).

C'mon, Chuck. Nobody here bashes Norm for his success rate*. He gets bashed for reasons other than wins and losses. And you know it.

*That may now be subject to change.