FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[USee]

Despite giving up an unexpected number of points to NPU, it's hard to believe any teams are looking forward to facing the Wheatonites. Did NPU score primarily through the air or on the ground? In addition to the D playing up to their expected level, might the WC offense be enhanced by having Weeks pound the rock more often, and/or targeting Spencer Peterson more often, given his usual height/weight advantage over less physically imposing D backs?

North Park opened the game with an onside kick and recovered it, then went on to score. Love that play call. It was 58-13 after three quarters.

It was 14-13 at the end of 1st quarter. Wheaton lost another possession (2 weeks in a row) via a kick return. They muffed a punt, giving the vikings possession in the redzone. Most of NPU's yardage vs the Wheaton 1st team D was versus man to man coverage on the outside (most of North Centrals yardage came on similar chunk plays). They also gave up over 100 yds rushing to NPU.

Wheaton isn't playing like a team anywhere near where they were in 2019. That year they played every snap of every game with a chip on their shoulder. This year the same defensive front is good but not playoff level dominant like they should be. The secondary is young and it will take a few games for them to get the experience they need, likely at the the expense of a few TD's, but that front should be creating more disruption. Luke Anthony completed almost 70% of his passes in 2019. So far this year he is just over 60%. He played great vs NPU so trending in the right direction.

[USee]

It's a good thing for my spirits and ego that IWU has always been (and probably always will be) a basketball-first school!

Actually, in terms of walnut-and-bronze hardware, Illinois Wesleyan is a women's track-&-field-first school.

And go a bit lighter on the Norm-bashing.  One big reason why IWU NEVER finishes dead last is stability - they have had exactly TWO head football coaches in the last SIXTY-SIX years (Don Larson for 33 years, and now Norm Eash for 33).

C'mon, Chuck. Nobody here bashes Norm for his success rate*. He gets bashed for reasons other than wins and losses. And you know it.

*That may now be subject to change.

I 'know' from this board that the Norm-bashing is for reasons other than won-loss record, but can't confirm from personal experience.  The only time I met Norm (2010 homecoming), he struck me as a very personable guy.  So I simply don't know what the bashing is really all about.  And I can't recall the bashing ever being at all specific as to cause - just general hatred.  Can anyone clue me in to specifics?  Otherwise, I will put it off to jealousy that he has more conference wins than anyone else will probably ever get (with Don Larson in second place).

I can send you a PM with probably dozens of specific examples. Many of the stories have been posted on here over the years. It's not "general hatred", it's actually pretty "specific hatred" and since you have been on these boards as long as anyone, you either chose to ignore the stories or in your old age just don't remember them.

I don't hate Norm, in fact I think he is a great coach and his record is impressive. But I can tell you the reasons he is not well liked around the league are not random.

[Gregory Sager]

It's a good thing for my spirits and ego that IWU has always been (and probably always will be) a basketball-first school!

Actually, in terms of walnut-and-bronze hardware, Illinois Wesleyan is a women's track-&-field-first school.

And go a bit lighter on the Norm-bashing.  One big reason why IWU NEVER finishes dead last is stability - they have had exactly TWO head football coaches in the last SIXTY-SIX years (Don Larson for 33 years, and now Norm Eash for 33).

C'mon, Chuck. Nobody here bashes Norm for his success rate*. He gets bashed for reasons other than wins and losses. And you know it.

*That may now be subject to change.

Yes, women's t-and-f has had more national success then basketball (so has golf ), but in terms of student interest, it's basketball (and, increasingly, also women's basketball); at least that was true back in my day (when we dodged mastodons to get to classes), but still seems to be true.

I was yanking your chain, Chuck. Was anyone associated with IWU other than the student-athletes involved, their parents, and the coaches, even aware that the Titans had won those women's t&f titles?

I 'know' from this board that the Norm-bashing is for reasons other than won-loss record, but can't confirm from personal experience.  The only time I met Norm (2010 homecoming), he struck me as a very personable guy.  So I simply don't know what the bashing is really all about.  And I can't recall the bashing ever being at all specific as to cause - just general hatred.  Can anyone clue me in to specifics?  Otherwise, I will put it off to jealousy that he has more conference wins than anyone else will probably ever get (with Don Larson in second place).

Oh, come on, Chuck. Seriously? "I can't recall the bashing ever being at all specific as to cause"? You've read this board religiously for decades now. I find your assertion very hard to believe.

And "jealousy that he has more conference wins than anyone else will probably ever get"? Puh-leez. Norm's had a great career, but his total number of wins is simply a matter of sheer longevity combined with an aptitude for assembling competitive -- but only occasionally dominant -- teams. Mike Swider's still a relatively young man, and if he had stuck around for two or three more years he would've passed Norm easily despite having far fewer seasons under his belt.

If any CCIW coach was ever going to be the subject of envy or jealousy, it'd be Bob Reade, whose four national titles and 12 CCIW titles in only 16 seasons at the helm at Augie make him the undisputed master of CCIW football head coaches, or the Thornes, whose accomplishments dwarf Eash's when you consider that Eash has coached IWU for almost twice as long as the Thornes put together have coached NCC.

[kiko]

In all seriousness, I've been trying to wait a beat before judging the Titans' season this year.  I don't view the Franklin result as a bad loss, and the Carroll game was a one-point decision.  So while they are oh-for-three, it is not in the same cul de sac as some other teams sporting that record.

This week is pretty much must-win for the Titans or things will spiral badly.  And if their season does spiral, it would for me at least be one of the more surprising storylines of this season given their relative level of success in recent years.

You are a patient guy.  To me losing back to back to Carroll and Carthage and giving up 96 points in the process....they done spiraled.

96 points is... not good.  I'm really happy for Norm on that front.

I look at this as a weird year -- there are a lot of fifth and sixth year guys, meaning the age distribution on various rosters runs from 18 year olds to 23 year olds.  A bad team with an oversample of fifth- and sixth-year guys will show better than usual against a good team with a younger roster.

IDK what this looks like for the Titans or our Wisconsin brethren -- my big two/little eight arrogance means I don't have a ton of interest in digging into their rosters.  But my general MO this year is to give everything a bit more time before I start drawing conclusions.

[kiko]

Re: Norm... it's not hatred.

He is often a poor representative of the university as has been well documented on the past 2599 pages of this board.  He's somewhere in the fat part of the righthand side on the bell curve relative to other coaches in terms of results, but if I'm a university powerbroker, I don't know that his value over replacement coach makes the baggage worth having him associated with my school.

[Gregory Sager]

To follow up my point, if you look just at the records of head coaches who ran a CCIW program for a decade or more, this is where Norm Eash ranks in winning percentage (CCIW games only):

coach, school	yrs	titles	# of yrs	W-L-T	.pct
Bob Reade, Augustana	1979-94	12	16	112-12-1	.900
Harve Chrouser, Wheaton	1946-59	9	14	68-  7-2	.896
John Thorne, North Central	2002-14	8	13	76-15-0	.835
Mike Swider, Wheaton	1996-2019	9	24	140-34-0	.805
Jim Barnes, Augustana	2000-10	3	11	56-21-0	.727
Carl Poelker, Millikin	1982-95	2	14	77-30-1	.718
Art Keller, Carthage	1961-82	8	22	105-53-3	.661
J.R. Bishop, Wheaton	1982-95	1	14	70-37-1	.653
Norm Eash, Illinois Wesleyan	1987-	9	33	157-85-1	.648
Ben Newcomb, Augustana	1969-78	1	10	48-30-1	.614
Don Larson, Illinois Wesleyan	1954-86	5	33	142-89-6	.612
Skip Matheson, Millikin	1966-76	1	11	47-35-0	.573
Vince DeFrancesca, Carroll	1959-71	0	13	46-34-5	.571
Doug Neibuhr, Millikin	1996-2010	2	15	51-54-0	.486
Merle Masonholder, Carroll	1982-91	1	10	33-47-0	.413
Tim Rucks, North Park/Carthage	1990-94, 1995-2012	1	23	60-99-4	.380
Paul Krohn, Elmhurst	1993-2003	0	11	15-63-1	.196

Jeff Thorne, who's coached NCC for five seasons now, could go .500 on average for the next five years (including this one) in CCIW play, and he'd still have a CCIW winning percentage forty points higher than Norm's by the end of it.

Norm Eash has had a very fine career at Illinois Wesleyan. But to insinuate that he's the Bear Bryant or the Joe Paterno or the Urban Meyer of the CCIW, and is thus subject to the envy of opposing partisans, is utterly ridiculous.

[WUPHF]

#1 defense in the CCIW?
North Central? Nope
Wheaton? Nope
WashU is the #1 defense in the league with the #1 pass defense and the #3 rush defense.

I guess Ill go because free football is better than no football, but unfortunately, this is going to look more like the 2019 loss than the 2018 win.

Interestingly, Washington University leads the league in penalties with 27 violations so far.  They are figuring things out though and only had 4 against Elmhurst.

[Gregory Sager]

#1 defense in the CCIW?
North Central? Nope
Wheaton? Nope
WashU is the #1 defense in the league with the #1 pass defense and the #3 rush defense.

I guess Ill go because free football is better than no football, but unfortunately, this is going to look more like the 2019 loss than the 2018 win.

Interestingly, Washington University leads the league in penalties with 27 violations so far.  They are figuring things out though and only had 4 against Elmhurst.

Aww, USee's just getting warmed up. He'll be in full-throttle Lou Holtz mode by Friday.

[79jaybird]

Tenure doesn't always mean a good coach.   Krohn was with us for a long time and struggled to mount the wins consistently.

IMO-  Norm has been a solid figure for IWU and has helped to continue a tradition Don Larson had created.    As a person though?  Um,  yeah. I remember talking to Mike Swider who could always find something nice to say about everybody,  and said "
That coach down in B-Town is something."   And we both couldn't think of an appropriate word.

Thorne Sr. had the benefit of building up notoriety at the HS level, so IMO The BEST thing NC ever did was bring him on board.  He quickly soaked up the local suburban recruiting and well,  the results show the proof in the pudding.

IMO also helps to have an AD and administration who is willing and able to work with you to provide the tools for success.   

[WUPHF]

He'll be in full-throttle Lou Holtz mode by Friday.

Let's just say I am in full-throttle WUPHF mode...

Reminding Wheaton fans of that 17-10.

I know I am supposed to cherish the wins over the University of Chicago above all others, but that game was special.

[bleedpurple]

In all seriousness, I've been trying to wait a beat before judging the Titans' season this year.  I don't view the Franklin result as a bad loss, and the Carroll game was a one-point decision.  So while they are oh-for-three, it is not in the same cul de sac as some other teams sporting that record.

This week is pretty much must-win for the Titans or things will spiral badly.  And if their season does spiral, it would for me at least be one of the more surprising storylines of this season given their relative level of success in recent years.

You are a patient guy.  To me losing back to back to Carroll and Carthage and giving up 96 points in the process....they done spiraled.

96 points is... not good.  I'm really happy for Norm on that front.

I look at this as a weird year -- there are a lot of fifth and sixth year guys, meaning the age distribution on various rosters runs from 18 year olds to 23 year olds.  A bad team with an oversample of fifth- and sixth-year guys will show better than usual against a good team with a younger roster.

IDK what this looks like for the Titans or our Wisconsin brethren -- my big two/little eight arrogance means I don't have a ton of interest in digging into their rosters. But my general MO this year is to give everything a bit more time before I start drawing conclusions.

Sounds like wisdom to me!

[jaybird44]

A cursory look at the surface of the Wheaton-WashU game prompts me to believe that Wheaton may be a bit off its '19 performance, and WashU appears to be a bit better in some areas via the eye test, than it was in '19.  I'm not sure if the alleged Wheaton drop and alleged WashU rise are significant enough to produce a Bears victory.

I do remember watching the 2019 game in which Wheaton absolutely pummeled WashU.  No, more like punished the Bears on every snap for being on the same field.  Such was the size of the chip and the muscularity in which the Thunder imposed its will.  Truly at that time the Thunder appeared to be a strong contender for getting to the D3 title game.

Given that, a lot of water has flowed under the football bridge since then.  I am quietly confident that the Bears will compete with Wheaton.  I like our secondary, linebacking corps, QB play, WR depth, placekicking, and the RB rotation that is physical when needed.  There are quite a few seniors and a sprinkling of grad students that seem to be rising to the notion that this is their time to make a mark after last year was taken away by COVID. 

Can they rise to the occasion in front of a big home crowd Saturday night and get a home win against nationally-ranked Wheaton for the second straight time?  I think so...but I view things with just a hint of rose-color through my eyeglasses.

Should be a helluva lot of fun however the game unfolds...

[hazzben]

Norm Eash has had a very fine career at Illinois Wesleyan. But to insinuate that he's the Bear Bryant or the Joe Paterno or the Urban Meyer of the CCIW, and is thus subject to the envy of opposing partisans, is utterly ridiculous.

It would appear to me, that from a longevity and win percentage perspective, he's the Kirk Ferentz of the CCIW.

[Gregory Sager]

That's a fairly apt analogy.

[bleedpurple]

A cursory look at the surface of the Wheaton-WashU game prompts me to believe that Wheaton may be a bit off its '19 performance, and WashU appears to be a bit better in some areas via the eye test, than it was in '19.

I haven't seen them play, so I can't speak to the eye test, but Wash U's loss to Chicago after beating them 43-7 in 2019 isn't a good look.