FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[matblake]

That 2010 game v Augie was the 3rd in a string of last second losses for the Vikings that effectively sent Barnes out of coaching into business. The heartbreak of that 2010 game was only surpassed by the legend of the couple previous seasons. The game at Augie where Swider let Augie score just to get the ball back and the Thunder scored in under a minute including a 2 pt conversion to win. The game @Wheaton that the Thunder, down by less than a TD, went down the field and QB Chupp ran it in on the last play (4th down) of the game to win. At least 3 crushing defeats in a row.

I believe that game was before video, but you could listen to it online (with lots of buffering).  Mine buffered for what felt like 8 hours just prior to that last play.  Was happy with the ending though.

[Gregory Sager]

I think that you guys are being a little too Wheaton-centric when trying to analyze Augustana's downturn. Augie did play seven other CCIW opponents during those seasons at the end of Augie's Barnes era, you know.

[USee]

Greg Thomas has a good look into the Pool C possibilities.  Good to see he feels good about Wheaton.  I was a little perplexed that Wheaton moved down a spot in the D3 poll but it's mid season.  Plenty of games left to play on the field.

https://www.d3football.com/columns/around-the-nation/2021/early-look-at-pool-c?fbclid=IwAR1X_xxm9wFah7vgRiui3GZ5i-sP6PtCDUmvEEHEJ-gdqt-kcUPOcTkznWI

I wish I had the confidence Greg has about Wheaton's chances. I didn't care as much in 2019 because it wasn't my team! The thing with the polls, usually those subtle flips (STJU jumping Wheaton to get to #5) happen because a team earns more poll points. In this case, Wheaton inexplicably lost a few poll points (despite a convincing 45-0 win over Augie) to allow St Johns to jump them. Must be the Johnnie creep factor in the polls. Doesn't really matter but it's interesting that at least one pollster changed their position on Wheaton randomly in the middle of the season.

The Thunder know they have to be convincing every week against every opponent as this all affects their resume for the national committee. And the Thunder are hoping WashU is a decided 3rd place team and finds their way into the final Region 5 rankings.

[USee]

I think that you guys are being a little too Wheaton-centric when trying to analyze Augustana's downturn. Augie did play seven other CCIW opponents during those seasons at the end of Augie's Barnes era, you know.

Greg, It's obvious that Wheaton caused the the Augie demise. I'm sorry if you can't see it.

[TrueGreen]

For people who have only been around the League for the last 10 years or so would have a hard time understanding the mystique of Augustana football that still resonates on this board.  The Western Vikings were undefeated in each of the 83-86 seasons.  That means the class that began in 83 never experienced a loss in their college career. From 1980 to 2006 Augie's lowest finish was 4th place (only once in 2000) and won the conference an astounding 17 times in that 26 year span.  Add in the fact that Augustana's offense was virtually the same that entire span and former opposing players even reported being able to call out the play prior to the snap and still not be able to effectively stop the play.  They were the team to beat and were in virtually every game they competed in. 

I bring those 2 teams up because of their historical CCIW success while having some recent prolonged struggles. Out of the 8 decades of the CCIW, only IWU has won a CCIW Championship in every decade  .  Augie and Millikin are next with 6 out of 8.

Augie: none in the 50s or the 2010s.
Millikin: none in the 40s or the 2010s.
Wheaton: (5 out of 7 because they left the CCIW during the 60s) none in the 70s or 80s.
NCC: 4 out of 8 - none in the 50s, 70s, 80s or 90s.
Carthage: 3 out of 8
Elmhurst: 3 (now 2) out of 8 (the 2010s got vacated)
Carroll: 2

[Gregory Sager]

Must be the Johnnie creep factor in the polls.

I never thought that I would see the words "Johnnie creep" posted on these boards by someone who (presumably) doesn't own a closet full of purple clothing.

[matblake]

Wheaton: (5 out of 7 because they left got kicked out of the CCIW during the 60s) none in the 70s or 80s.

Fixed it for you.   

But seriously, good work on the decades thing! Good info there.

[TrueGreen]

Wheaton: (5 out of 7 because they left got kicked out of the CCIW during the 60s) none in the 70s or 80s.

Fixed it for you.   

But seriously, good work on the decades thing! Good info there.

I go pretty far back, but not to the 60s. Please do tell. Has to be a great story behind getting kicked out of the CCIW?!?

[matblake]

Wheaton: (5 out of 7 because they left got kicked out of the CCIW during the 60s) none in the 70s or 80s.

Fixed it for you.   

But seriously, good work on the decades thing! Good info there.

I go pretty far back, but not to the 60s. Please do tell. Has to be a great story behind getting kicked out of the CCIW?!?

I don't go that far back either.  But Wheaton was really good at basketball in the 50's.  So my recollection on what I've read is that the other schools got together and said, if you don't leave we're going to kick you out.  So, I believe that Wheaton did leave "voluntarily" beginning in 1959.  They rejoined the conference in 1967 I believe.  And upon their return to the CCIW Wheaton wasn't a top tier team in football and basketball until the late eighties/early nineties.  Anyone else care to chime in with what they know? 

[Gregory Sager]

Wheaton: (5 out of 7 because they left got kicked out of the CCIW during the 60s) none in the 70s or 80s.

Fixed it for you.   

But seriously, good work on the decades thing! Good info there.

I go pretty far back, but not to the 60s. Please do tell. Has to be a great story behind getting kicked out of the CCIW?!?

It's not that great of a story, really. In the mid- and late '50s, Wheaton was beyond unbeatable in the only two college sports that mattered during that era, football and basketball. (And by basketball, I of course mean men's basketball; the CCIW didn't sponsor women's sports until the late '80s.) During the Eisenhower era, Wheaton won seven straight CCI (no 'W' back then) football titles, five of them outright, losing only three games and drawing one tie during that seven-season span under Harve Chrouser. Meanwhile from the '55-'56 season through the '58-'59 season, Wheaton strung together four consecutive 14-0 championships in CCI basketball under Lee Pfund. So in 1959 the other schools in the league said to Wheaton, "Take your national name recognition and your coast-to-coast recruiting, and go find yourself another sandbox to play in."

By the time that Wheaton was welcomed back into the league eight years later, the landscape had changed completely in both sports, both in terms of Wheaton itself and of the other schools in the league. Wheaton was no longer dominant, and it showed immediately. From that point onward until perhaps a decade or a decade and a half ago, Augustana was the league's premier bully, and that dominance was built upon an all-sports model rather than upon the old model of focusing upon a mere two sports while the only people who cared about the other sports were the student-athletes who participated in them and the coaches who coached them.

Different times.

[USee]

Believe it or not, Wheaton football had a stretch in the early 80's where they had 4 head coaches in 4 years and were 2-7 every year. JR Bishop was the 4th of those coaches and he went 6-3 in his second year, hired Mike Swider as DC in 85 and the rest is history. It took JR about 10-15 years to win the conference title outright (organizational and budget changes happened over decades, not seasons for Wheaton) and in 1995 the Thunder went undefeated and went to the NCAA tournament for the first time. Swider took over as HC the next year and that started a pretty good run for football.

[kiko]

Wheaton: (5 out of 7 because they left got kicked out of the CCIW during the 60s) none in the 70s or 80s.

Fixed it for you.   

But seriously, good work on the decades thing! Good info there.

I go pretty far back, but not to the 60s. Please do tell. Has to be a great story behind getting kicked out of the CCIW?!?

It's not that great of a story, really. In the mid- and late '50s, Wheaton was beyond unbeatable in the only two college sports that mattered during that era, football and basketball. (And by basketball, I of course mean men's basketball; the CCIW didn't sponsor women's sports until the late '80s.) During the Eisenhower era, Wheaton won seven straight CCI (no 'W' back then) football titles, five of them outright, losing only three games and drawing one tie during that seven-season span under Harve Chrouser. Meanwhile from the '55-'56 season through the '58-'59 season, Wheaton strung together four consecutive 14-0 championships in CCI basketball under Lee Pfund. So in 1959 the other schools in the league said to Wheaton, "Take your national name recognition and your coast-to-coast recruiting, and go find yourself another sandbox to play in."

By the time that Wheaton was welcomed back into the league eight years later, the landscape had changed completely in both sports, both in terms of Wheaton itself and of the other schools in the league. Wheaton was no longer dominant, and it showed immediately. From that point onward until perhaps a decade or a decade and a half ago, Augustana was the league's premier bully, and that dominance was built upon an all-sports model rather than upon the old model of focusing upon a mere two sports while the only people who cared about the other sports were the student-athletes who participated in them and the coaches who coached them.

Different times.

Sort of the OG version of the Tommies' story in the MIAC, but with less subterfuge since the Wheaties resigned before they could be fired.

[TrueGreen]

So, Wheaton was St. Thomas, before St, Thomas was St. Thomas!!!

JR Bishop took over just as his son (Keith) was finishing his freshman year at IWU. He transferred to play for Dad at Wheaton (I'm assuming sitting out 1 year) and helped Dad go from 2 wins in year one to 6-3 in the next 3 years.  Led the league in passing all 3 years.

[Pat Coleman]

Greg Thomas has a good look into the Pool C possibilities.  Good to see he feels good about Wheaton.  I was a little perplexed that Wheaton moved down a spot in the D3 poll but it's mid season.  Plenty of games left to play on the field.

https://www.d3football.com/columns/around-the-nation/2021/early-look-at-pool-c?fbclid=IwAR1X_xxm9wFah7vgRiui3GZ5i-sP6PtCDUmvEEHEJ-gdqt-kcUPOcTkznWI

I wish I had the confidence Greg has about Wheaton's chances. I didn't care as much in 2019 because it wasn't my team! The thing with the polls, usually those subtle flips (STJU jumping Wheaton to get to #5) happen because a team earns more poll points. In this case, Wheaton inexplicably lost a few poll points (despite a convincing 45-0 win over Augie) to allow St Johns to jump them. Must be the Johnnie creep factor in the polls. Doesn't really matter but it's interesting that at least one pollster changed their position on Wheaton randomly in the middle of the season.

The Thunder know they have to be convincing every week against every opponent as this all affects their resume for the national committee. And the Thunder are hoping WashU is a decided 3rd place team and finds their way into the final Region 5 rankings.

SJU went from 5 points down on Wheaton to 5 points ahead and I actually think almost all of it came from UW-Oshkosh losing. SJU passed UWO on more ballots than Wheaton passed UWO on.

When teams are that tightly bunched, there's a lot of small things that can flip spots.

[USee]

Pat, Maybe ( and likely) I misunderstand the process but your description applies when there are votes to be redistributed (UWO) and Team A (St Johns) gets more of the redistributed votes than Team B (Wheaton). In this case, Wheaton lost votes in the poll from one week to the next so someone obviously lowered them on their ballot? I am clarifying to help those who don't understand how the process works.