FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Pat Coleman]

No, you are correct. Wheaton lost four and St. John's gained six. UW-Whitewater gained two. There are almost certainly some ballots on which SJU did actively pass Wheaton last week -- and Linfield gained 31 so there are probably some ballots on which Linfield passed Wheaton as well.

[Gregory Sager]

Wheaton: (5 out of 7 because they left got kicked out of the CCIW during the 60s) none in the 70s or 80s.

Fixed it for you.   

But seriously, good work on the decades thing! Good info there.

I go pretty far back, but not to the 60s. Please do tell. Has to be a great story behind getting kicked out of the CCIW?!?

It's not that great of a story, really. In the mid- and late '50s, Wheaton was beyond unbeatable in the only two college sports that mattered during that era, football and basketball. (And by basketball, I of course mean men's basketball; the CCIW didn't sponsor women's sports until the late '80s.) During the Eisenhower era, Wheaton won seven straight CCI (no 'W' back then) football titles, five of them outright, losing only three games and drawing one tie during that seven-season span under Harve Chrouser. Meanwhile from the '55-'56 season through the '58-'59 season, Wheaton strung together four consecutive 14-0 championships in CCI basketball under Lee Pfund. So in 1959 the other schools in the league said to Wheaton, "Take your national name recognition and your coast-to-coast recruiting, and go find yourself another sandbox to play in."

By the time that Wheaton was welcomed back into the league eight years later, the landscape had changed completely in both sports, both in terms of Wheaton itself and of the other schools in the league. Wheaton was no longer dominant, and it showed immediately. From that point onward until perhaps a decade or a decade and a half ago, Augustana was the league's premier bully, and that dominance was built upon an all-sports model rather than upon the old model of focusing upon a mere two sports while the only people who cared about the other sports were the student-athletes who participated in them and the coaches who coached them.

Different times.

Sort of the OG version of the Tommies' story in the MIAC, but with less subterfuge since the Wheaties resigned before they could be fired.

Sort of, except that UST's success resembled that of Augustana in the '70s, '80s, '90s and into the '00s more than it did Wheaton's in the '50s, in the sense that the Tommies dominated across the board in MIAC sports, not just in football and men's basketball. St. Thomas won national titles in eight different sports (in five of them, more than once), and in some of the sports in which the Tommies never took Walnut & Bronze they were nevertheless considered to be a national power (football, obviously, but men's soccer as well). The number of MIAC titles that UST athletics would rack up every year was pretty staggering. Like I said, different times. Back then, just dominating those two sports could get you kicked out of a league. Nowadays you need to be a much more versatile bully in order for the torches and pitchforks to storm your castle.

[wally_wabash]

Greg Thomas has a good look into the Pool C possibilities.  Good to see he feels good about Wheaton.  I was a little perplexed that Wheaton moved down a spot in the D3 poll but it's mid season.  Plenty of games left to play on the field.

https://www.d3football.com/columns/around-the-nation/2021/early-look-at-pool-c?fbclid=IwAR1X_xxm9wFah7vgRiui3GZ5i-sP6PtCDUmvEEHEJ-gdqt-kcUPOcTkznWI

I wish I had the confidence Greg has about Wheaton's chances. I didn't care as much in 2019 because it wasn't my team! The thing with the polls, usually those subtle flips (STJU jumping Wheaton to get to #5) happen because a team earns more poll points. In this case, Wheaton inexplicably lost a few poll points (despite a convincing 45-0 win over Augie) to allow St Johns to jump them. Must be the Johnnie creep factor in the polls. Doesn't really matter but it's interesting that at least one pollster changed their position on Wheaton randomly in the middle of the season.

The Thunder know they have to be convincing every week against every opponent as this all affects their resume for the national committee. And the Thunder are hoping WashU is a decided 3rd place team and finds their way into the final Region 5 rankings.

We really need another week or two (probably two) to stabilize the SOS data and have some more teams fall away from the unbeatens to thin the regional ranking herd before we can start to go through some mock at-large selection scenarios.  As I recall in 2019, going through the steps led us to know- despite North Central's obvious strength- that their selection profile compared to others that were in the at-large pool meant that they would not be among the first few teams selected.  I suspect we'll find the same thing about 2021 Wheaton when we start going through that exercise.  The Thunder won't be the first team invited, probably not the second team either, but it's just really hard to see this going through five rounds of selection and Wheaton getting passed over all five times. 

How WashU finishes is pretty important though.  That Bears result vs. Chicago is massive. 

[Augie6]

The only real alum on here, Augie6, has made his feelings more than clear about Bell and the program. I think he is in touch with a number of other alums that feel similarly. And with good reason.

And I won't go into great detail rehashing some of the things that I've posted relative to the current administration and coaching staffs, over the past decade. Suffice it to say, I thought Cushman was a terrible hire and said that when the hire was made. He did set the program back. I was optimistic when they hired Coach Bell and felt it was a good hire, but it clearly hasn't worked out on the field. He's had 7 years to turn it around and this may be the least talented team I have seen at Augie in the Cushman/Bell era.  It seems that the current administration is perfectly fine with trotting out a below average football team every year, as long as there are enough players coming in each year and generating tuition $.  This year, there are 139 players on Augie's roster.  Clearly, that is the statistic that matters with this administration and not wins and losses.  It's a shame to see what this program has become.

[TrueGreen]

That's really too bad. I had the greatest respect for Coach Reade and what he brought to the conference (and obviously the school), and then the staff of guys that kept things rolling when he retired. That group created such a championship culture and raised the bar for the entire league. I can only imagine how hard it is to see it all gone.

I thought Coach Bell was a great hire and can only think that it is something within the school support that prevents him from a return of Augie football.

[TrueGreen]

Should be a realization that you can have numbers & success!!! Current roster sizes:

NCC - 144
IWU - 142
Carthage - 139
Wheaton - 128
Augie - 113
Wash U - 109
Carroll - 109
Elmhurst - 103
Millikin - 101
North Park - 88

[kiko]

Wheaton: (5 out of 7 because they left got kicked out of the CCIW during the 60s) none in the 70s or 80s.

Fixed it for you.   

But seriously, good work on the decades thing! Good info there.

I go pretty far back, but not to the 60s. Please do tell. Has to be a great story behind getting kicked out of the CCIW?!?

It's not that great of a story, really. In the mid- and late '50s, Wheaton was beyond unbeatable in the only two college sports that mattered during that era, football and basketball. (And by basketball, I of course mean men's basketball; the CCIW didn't sponsor women's sports until the late '80s.) During the Eisenhower era, Wheaton won seven straight CCI (no 'W' back then) football titles, five of them outright, losing only three games and drawing one tie during that seven-season span under Harve Chrouser. Meanwhile from the '55-'56 season through the '58-'59 season, Wheaton strung together four consecutive 14-0 championships in CCI basketball under Lee Pfund. So in 1959 the other schools in the league said to Wheaton, "Take your national name recognition and your coast-to-coast recruiting, and go find yourself another sandbox to play in."

By the time that Wheaton was welcomed back into the league eight years later, the landscape had changed completely in both sports, both in terms of Wheaton itself and of the other schools in the league. Wheaton was no longer dominant, and it showed immediately. From that point onward until perhaps a decade or a decade and a half ago, Augustana was the league's premier bully, and that dominance was built upon an all-sports model rather than upon the old model of focusing upon a mere two sports while the only people who cared about the other sports were the student-athletes who participated in them and the coaches who coached them.

Different times.

Sort of the OG version of the Tommies' story in the MIAC, but with less subterfuge since the Wheaties resigned before they could be fired.

Sort of, except that UST's success resembled that of Augustana in the '70s, '80s, '90s and into the '00s more than it did Wheaton's in the '50s, in the sense that the Tommies dominated across the board in MIAC sports, not just in football and men's basketball. St. Thomas won national titles in eight different sports (in five of them, more than once), and in some of the sports in which the Tommies never took Walnut & Bronze they were nevertheless considered to be a national power (football, obviously, but men's soccer as well). The number of MIAC titles that UST athletics would rack up every year was pretty staggering. Like I said, different times. Back then, just dominating those two sports could get you kicked out of a league. Nowadays you need to be a much more versatile bully in order for the torches and pitchforks to storm your castle.

Well, I did say 'sort of'.

And yes, times are very different.  The two examples are apples and oranges, but they are both fruit.

[USee]

Pantagraph article on IWU at 1-4.

https://pantagraph.com/sports/college/illinois-wesleyan/watch-now-illinois-wesleyan-football-team-trying-to-rally-after-1-4-start/article_8be781f1-1174-5cb7-be0a-ba5d906f164d.html

"I told them today everyone expects coaches to coach Xs and Os and fundamentals. But a coach has to coach belief, too," he said. "I said I thought I've done a pretty good job of that in my tenure here. I reminded them today I still believe in our football team and still believe we could be 5-0 or 4-1 at worst. I still believe those things.

[Stagg Again!!]

Today:

Wheaton 58, North Park 27 at Foster & Kedzie
Carthage 62, Illinois Wesleyan 35 in Kenosha
North Central 58, Augustana 6 in Naperville
Wash U 27, Elmhurst 7 in St. Louis

Tonight:

Carroll at Millikin

Changing topics for a moment... I just watched the entire MHB v. HS game.  I have two questions:  1) How was this game even close? and 2) How was HS ranked so high coming into the game?  While I don't know enough about HS, I don't see a team in the Top 25 that wouldn't be favored to beat the Cowboys on any given Saturday.  Heck, I believe that HS would have a very difficult time keeping pace with the "run and gun" Aurora Spartans based on what I saw tonight.  Would love to hear what others saw in tonight's game... maybe I just missed it!

Going to add #14 JHU to my list with #8 HS... think they have a hard time keeping up with AU.  #14 JHU came into tonight's team with the #21 Mules averaging 59.8 ppg and tallied six.  Yes, Pat, I watched the whole game tonight :-).

BTW, didn't have a chance to post after last weekend's games and the subsequent D3 polls, but there is no way SJU should be ranked higher than the Crusaders at this point... can't believe I am coming to WC's defense here, but I call 'em how I see 'em.

[TrueGreen]

Pantagraph article on IWU at 1-4.

https://pantagraph.com/sports/college/illinois-wesleyan/watch-now-illinois-wesleyan-football-team-trying-to-rally-after-1-4-start/article_8be781f1-1174-5cb7-be0a-ba5d906f164d.html

"I told them today everyone expects coaches to coach Xs and Os and fundamentals. But a coach has to coach belief, too," he said. "I said I thought I've done a pretty good job of that in my tenure here. I reminded them today I still believe in our football team and still believe we could be 5-0 or 4-1 at worst. I still believe those things.

At 1-4, you have to try any and all types of messaging to turn the tide, but one way to encourage belief is building confidence through good Xs and Os with great fundamentals. Belief has to be built on something other than just talk. Huge game tomorrow for the Titans!

[D3FLETCH]

Pantagraph article on IWU at 1-4.

https://pantagraph.com/sports/college/illinois-wesleyan/watch-now-illinois-wesleyan-football-team-trying-to-rally-after-1-4-start/article_8be781f1-1174-5cb7-be0a-ba5d906f164d.html

"I told them today everyone expects coaches to coach Xs and Os and fundamentals. But a coach has to coach belief, too," he said. "I said I thought I've done a pretty good job of that in my tenure here. I reminded them today I still believe in our football team and still believe we could be 5-0 or 4-1 at worst. I still believe those things.

Norm quotes make me want to vomit.

[kiko]

Pantagraph article on IWU at 1-4.

https://pantagraph.com/sports/college/illinois-wesleyan/watch-now-illinois-wesleyan-football-team-trying-to-rally-after-1-4-start/article_8be781f1-1174-5cb7-be0a-ba5d906f164d.html

"I told them today everyone expects coaches to coach Xs and Os and fundamentals. But a coach has to coach belief, too," he said. "I said I thought I've done a pretty good job of that in my tenure here. I reminded them today I still believe in our football team and still believe we could be 5-0 or 4-1 at worst. I still believe those things.

Norm quotes make me want to vomit.

I look at them more as "please, tell me more..." episodes.  Too often, the most effective counter to whatever he is trying to convey is to simply let him keep talking.

[D3FLETCH]

I hope Norm finds a way to finish 4-6 and keep his job. No need to have a good coach in Bloomington.

[D3FLETCH]

Does anyone have an explanation regarding the bad football being played CCIW teams this year (Not counting North Central/Wheaton). I feel like I am watching NCAC teams.

[mr_b]

Congratulations to North Park on their 33-30 win vs Carthage in Kenosha.