FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[USee]

Thunder fans have the following rooting interests this week:


John Carroll over Baldwin Wallace
St Johns over Bethel
RPI over Union AND Cortland over Ithaca
LF over Chicago (Or Chicago wins and gets the AQ)

[TrueGreen]

In a "it doesn't matter to anyone else" game.

Do the "only giving up 3 pts per game in the league at home" Titans dominate the "scoring over 40 points in the last 2 games" Augie Vikings?

Titans giving up 52.2 pts/gm on the road!!! Augie 9th in CCIW Scoring.

Where has the 2nd tier depth gone?

[WW]

Hmmmm. You constant digs, condescension and mockery make it clear where your heart lies. I get it. We'll see how this plays out.

I seriously have no idea what the aytch you're talking about. If having a take that isn't completely aligned with yours qualifies by your definition as any of the above, so be it.

I have no problem with your take, agreeable or not. I have been following these Pool C deliberations every year for a couple decades so have a pretty good feel how it works. Others (Wally, Pat, etc) know more details. The reality is Wheaton should be very worried about being in the field based on the measurable criteria, despite being clearly one of the top 5-6 teams in the country. Being a top team has nothing to do with "Being Wheaton" which has been much more of a bad thing for reputation historically than a good thing, it simply has to do with what they have done on the field over the past 2 seasons. I realize another reality: that doesn't matter based on the current criteria. But there is room for the committee to "do the right thing" circa Mt Union in 2016, North Central in 2019 and get one of the clearly best teams in the field. I have no idea if that happens or not and wouldn't be surprised with any result.

Another reality is UChicago, has probably no chance as a pool C candidate, even IF they are the top Region 5 team based on the measurable criteria.

So if you can leave your "Pay attention" comments at the door and debate the facts, no problem.

Fine. But "pay attention" was meant literally given your repeated charge that I ignore certain criteria. I don't.

I don't know that it's "clear" Wheaton is one of the top 5 or 6 teams in the country. You need some 2019 to support that argument, and I just don't think it's fair to use 2019, even if it was technically "last season." Some of the teams I follow closely had 22 new starters this year compared to 2019.

I won't argue Chicago's possible Pool C chances without seeing how a few other dominoes tumble, although I'd agree neither are probably at the table till R5. I'd add to your other list of Thunder rooting interests (that would be the same as Chicago's) that River Falls beating Oshkosh has bearing, as a 7-2 Oshkosh team would have SOS well over .600 and potentially a 2-2 record vs RRO, both criteria that would clearly be better than Wheaton's, not to mention some recent history cache that would resonate, if that indeed is part of the process.

[wally_wabash]

Hmmmm. You constant digs, condescension and mockery make it clear where your heart lies. I get it. We'll see how this plays out.

I seriously have no idea what the aytch you're talking about. If having a take that isn't completely aligned with yours qualifies by your definition as any of the above, so be it.

I have no problem with your take, agreeable or not. I have been following these Pool C deliberations every year for a couple decades so have a pretty good feel how it works. Others (Wally, Pat, etc) know more details. The reality is Wheaton should be very worried about being in the field based on the measurable criteria, despite being clearly one of the top 5-6 teams in the country. Being a top team has nothing to do with "Being Wheaton" which has been much more of a bad thing for reputation historically than a good thing, it simply has to do with what they have done on the field over the past 2 seasons. I realize another reality: that doesn't matter based on the current criteria. But there is room for the committee to "do the right thing" circa Mt Union in 2016, North Central in 2019 and get one of the clearly best teams in the field. I have no idea if that happens or not and wouldn't be surprised with any result.

Another reality is UChicago, has probably no chance as a pool C candidate, even IF they are the top Region 5 team based on the measurable criteria.

So if you can leave your "Pay attention" comments at the door and debate the facts, no problem.

Fine. But "pay attention" was meant literally given your repeated charge that I ignore certain criteria. I don't.

I don't know that it's "clear" Wheaton is one of the top 5 or 6 teams in the country. You need some 2019 to support that argument, and I just don't think it's fair to use 2019, even if it was technically "last season." Some of the teams I follow closely had 22 new starters this year compared to 2019.

You don't need 2019 to draw this conclusion.  You really just need to watch Wheaton play a few times in 2021. 

[USee]

Fine. But "pay attention" was meant literally given your repeated charge that I ignore certain criteria. I don't.

When you refer to the committee's articulated history of taking into account the quality of the RRO result and not just the win or loss (e.g. Wheaton's result vs NCC) as "Eye Test" or "...Just because they're Wheaton".  That's ignoring criteria.

I was gonna include the UWO/UWRF but I am assuming a UWO victory against 3-6 UWRF, which may be a mistake as anything can happen in the WIAC. So good call to include that result.

[USee]

I don't know that it's "clear" Wheaton is one of the top 5 or 6 teams in the country.

You would most likely be a category of one with this opinion. Are 22 new starters likely better than the only team (and a quarterfinalist) who beat the National Champs and has 15 returning starters, most of them 5th or 6th year seniors? The front 7 of the nations leading sack defense and #2 rush defense is literally the same team from 2019. It's not a difficult conclusion for most to make. I personally haven't thought they were top 5 (more like top 6-8) but recently they have really picked it up and I do think they are a top 5 team now. But I do understand the VERY real possibility they won't be in.

[WW]

Fine. But "pay attention" was meant literally given your repeated charge that I ignore certain criteria. I don't.

When you refer to the committee's articulated history of taking into account the quality of the RRO result and not just the win or loss (e.g. Wheaton's result vs NCC) as "Eye Test" or "...Just because they're Wheaton".  That's ignoring criteria.

I was gonna include the UWO/UWRF but I am assuming a UWO victory against 3-6 UWRF, which may be a mistake as anything can happen in the WIAC. So good call to include that result.

(Sigh...) I've acknowledged the quality of .... wuddev.

UWRF is 7-2. I would be surprised if they are not regionally ranked this week.

[USee]

The whole "Because they are Wheaton" idea is actually not a thing. It never has been. I wish it were. You have to only go back a few years and "Because they are Wheaton" was a pretty negative thing around here. This idea likely came about because of the Thunder victory over NCC in 2019 and the one score game earlier this year. People assume Wheaton is on NCC's level because we have shown we can play with them. I'd love for there to be a "Because they're Wheaton" phenomenon. I haven't seen it.

[USee]

Fine. But "pay attention" was meant literally given your repeated charge that I ignore certain criteria. I don't.

When you refer to the committee's articulated history of taking into account the quality of the RRO result and not just the win or loss (e.g. Wheaton's result vs NCC) as "Eye Test" or "...Just because they're Wheaton".  That's ignoring criteria.

I was gonna include the UWO/UWRF but I am assuming a UWO victory against 3-6 UWRF, which may be a mistake as anything can happen in the WIAC. So good call to include that result.

(Sigh...) I've acknowledged the quality of .... wuddev.

UWRF is 7-2. I would be surprised if they are not regionally ranked this week.

Maybe the committee will compare the first quarter of Chicago and Wheaton's  most lopsided wins to rank the two? (UC:3-3 vs Grinnell; 78-3 final; WC:24-0 vs IWU; 72-7 final)

[robertgoulet]

The whole "Because they are Wheaton" idea is actually not a thing. It never has been. I wish it were. You have to only go back a few years and "Because they are Wheaton" was a pretty negative thing around here. This idea likely came about because of the Thunder victory over NCC in 2019 and the one score game earlier this year. People assume Wheaton is on NCC's level because we have shown we can play with them. I'd love for there to be a "Because they're Wheaton" phenomenon. I haven't seen it.

Out of the top 6-8 teams Wheaton is the one I least want to face in the playoffs.

[D3FLETCH]

The whole "Because they are Wheaton" idea is actually not a thing. It never has been. I wish it were. You have to only go back a few years and "Because they are Wheaton" was a pretty negative thing around here. This idea likely came about because of the Thunder victory over NCC in 2019 and the one score game earlier this year. People assume Wheaton is on NCC's level because we have shown we can play with them. I'd love for there to be a "Because they're Wheaton" phenomenon. I haven't seen it.

Out of the top 6-8 teams Wheaton is the one I least want to face in the playoffs.

This seems to be the Mantra of the of the past 10 years. Wheaton just finds a way to lose games in the playoffs. I hope Jesse finds a way to get the Thunder over the hump. 

[SpartanHouse]

Wheaton will be in and host a round 1 game. New topic if discussion

[markerickson]

With MU leading 14-0, facing a third and long from inside their own five, what did MU do?  How predictable...throw to the All-American.  He ran a curl, facing very soft one on one coverage...so soft that he was not touched for 40 more yards when he turned inside to run for a 51 yard gain.  1)  Why wasn't he double-teamed? 2)  Why the soft coverage???  A:  Kids do what the coaches say.  That was the play that decided the game.  However, as Greg said, NPU had two drives stall inside the 5 yd line.  NP's efforts to score were a joke.

DI 6' 5" QB transfer Little should have been deployed as a WR during the game, and past games. Get this guy on the field!  Nope.  Little could have gone up for a rebound-type pass against a <6' CB for a TD, but da coaches chose otherwise.  Coaches repeated their mistake with a Viking comeback still possible.  I sat next to a parent of an NPU starter who was appalled at the play calling as was I.  After a drive in which starter QB Eck played with a broken collarbone..thus insert a Carthage transfer who had thrown a total of 7 passes all year...of course the Vikes stalled without Little on the field.  Why not at QB, given Eck's ineptness?  Little got benched for Eck for the same reason.  Little received praise from Greg, as we know.  Complete coaching miscue.  Coach Rooker put Little in the game for the last possession when the game was unwinnable.  Coach Rooker et. al. failed the team.

I had discussions with two NPU players after the game.  One was apoplectic about Eck staying in the game despite his injury.  The other, a starter, speaking on behalf of "many" teammates, did not understand why Little does not see minutes.

So Little wil be fodder for the Cardinals in a season when some thought a .500 season was possible.  Not with this coaching staff, IMHO.l

[USee]

I'm pretty sure coaching is not the issue at NPU.

[USee]

As we approach the final week, we have POY/COY awards to consider.

I think it's likely a clean sweep by NCC and depends somewhat on who Jeff Thorne nominates. My choices would be:

OPOY: Andrew Kamienski, WR-best offensive player on the best offense and #2 rated offense in the country
DPOY: Jake Beesley, DB--the best player on the conference champ defense
COY: Jeff Thorne

The only debate I would have is  making Wheaton DT Jake Holladay Co-DPOY. The Thunder have the #1 Defense in conference, lead the nation in sacks, #2 in the nation in run defense and Holladay has been dominant in every game this year. He is having a similar year to McRae in 2019 who was DPOY and D3DPOY.  I think Beesley is the best player on that defense and their secondary is elite, which is why they are a top 10 defense in the country.