FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[New Tradition]

Re: NCC concerns

I'm more concerned that they gave up 14 in 1Q.

Agreed.  Plus giving up decent yardage up the gut when they were in the nickel.  Plus kickoff coverage had me puckering a few times in the last 2 games. 

[wally_wabash]

Are there any defenses that would be that upset about playing 35+ minutes of game time knowing that they're getting a 70 point cushion?

[WUPHF]

If I was a North Central fan, my only complaint would be the lack of an opportunity to see what the team could do against some high-level Division II teams.

[robertgoulet]

Are there any defenses that would be that upset about playing 35+ minutes of game time knowing that they're getting a 70 point cushion?

I'm sure they arent upset about that but you can't assume you're going to get that cushion the further you advance into the tourney so you need to play like you don't have it.

[Gregory Sager]

The North Central fans can pull out their magnifying glasses and spend time to their heart's content looking for things about the Cardinals to complain about. None of the rest of us care. None of the rest of us root for a team that's gonna come within 18 points of NCC -- and that includes Wash U, which is a very good football team, eleven days from today -- and most of us root for teams that have lost or are going to lose to North Central by a whole lot more than the 19 Wheaton was short. So all of that hand-wringing from the Napervillains is unleashing a lot of eye-rolling in other precincts of this league.

Again, I'm a lot more concerned with the utter uncompetitiveness of what the Around The Nation guys have apparently dubbed "the C C I Double You". After four weeks of league play, the average margin of victory in 2023 CCIW games is five touchdowns (34.65 points). Again, last year the AMV in this league was 33.3 points, which was ridiculous enough, but it's apparently getting worse -- even though this coming week features two games (Augustana @ Wash U and Illinois Wesleyan @ North Park) that contain at least a hint of being interesting.

Of the twenty CCIW games played to date, a grand total of three have been one-score games:

CCIW Week 2: Wheaton 41, Augustana 34
CCIW Week 3: Augustana 23, Carroll 19
CCIW Week 3: Carthage 27, Elmhurst 20

Two more have been two-score games:

CCIW Week 1: Carroll 41, North Park 27
CCIW Week 4: North Park 35, Carthage 20

In other words, only one out of every four CCIW games thus far has been even mildly competitive. Most of them have been ... what is the level beyond a triple monkey stomp in the D3 football lexicon? A monkey pulping? We aren't just the C C I Double You. We are the Monkey Pulping League. And let me state this again, so that it's clear that I'm not simply picking on North Central and Wheaton here -- the monkey-pulping exists up and down the CCIW food chain. It has as much to do with the ineptitude at the bottom of the league -- and the wide distance between every tier among the ten teams, even including the distance between NCC and Wheaton this season -- as it does with the excellence of the teams at the top. The three games this coming Saturday that I didn't mention above (North Central @ Millikin, Elmhurst @ Carroll, and Carthage @ Wheaton) hardly even need to be played, since it's a bet-your-bottom-dollar foregone conclusion that in all three cases there will be a small primate tossed into the industrial shredder.

A few weeks ago kiko talked about the flatter and wider bell curve for football than is the case in other D3 sports. Well, in CCIW football, our bell curve is as flat as the prairie upon which this league was built.

[Pat Coleman]

I didn't really apply the name to the conference, just that week's games, and asked Greg to give a yes or no to each game that week.

[Gregory Sager]

Well, if the Doc Martens fits ...

[robertgoulet]

The North Central fans can pull out their magnifying glasses and spend time to their heart's content looking for things about the Cardinals to complain about. None of the rest of us care. None of the rest of us root for a team that's gonna come within 18 points of NCC -- and that includes Wash U, which is a very good football team, eleven days from today -- and most of us root for teams that have lost or are going to lose to North Central by a whole lot more than the 19 Wheaton was short. So all of that hand-wringing from the Napervillains is unleashing a lot of eye-rolling in other precincts of this league.

So NCC fans are no longer able to post on here about our team then? Got it.

[WUPHF]

So NCC fans are no longer able to post on here about our team then? Got it.

You can, but not without the eye-rolling from fans of other teams...

[lmitzel]

So NCC fans are no longer able to post on here about our team then? Got it.

You can, but not without the eye-rolling from fans of other teams...

And that's fine. I'm fully aware of the fact that the can of worms I opened up is the epitome of First World Problems.

Again, I'm a lot more concerned with the utter uncompetitiveness of what the Around The Nation guys have apparently dubbed "the C C I Double You". After four weeks of league play, the average margin of victory in 2023 CCIW games is five touchdowns (34.65 points). Again, last year the AMV in this league was 33.3 points, which was ridiculous enough, but it's apparently getting worse -- even though this coming week features two games (Augustana @ Wash U and Illinois Wesleyan @ North Park) that contain at least a hint of being interesting.

And this isn't a case of North Central pushing the numbers ridiculously high. Take the four games involving NCC out and the average margin of victory is 30.75 points, so only about a four point difference.

[Gregory Sager]

The North Central fans can pull out their magnifying glasses and spend time to their heart's content looking for things about the Cardinals to complain about. None of the rest of us care. None of the rest of us root for a team that's gonna come within 18 points of NCC -- and that includes Wash U, which is a very good football team, eleven days from today -- and most of us root for teams that have lost or are going to lose to North Central by a whole lot more than the 19 Wheaton was short. So all of that hand-wringing from the Napervillains is unleashing a lot of eye-rolling in other precincts of this league.

So NCC fans are no longer able to post on here about our team then? Got it.

Dunno what you got, but it wasn't from me. I don't see how you deduced "you can't post about NCC" from "other team's fans have no sympathy for your team's essentially nonexistent problems".

[Gregory Sager]

Again, I'm a lot more concerned with the utter uncompetitiveness of what the Around The Nation guys have apparently dubbed "the C C I Double You". After four weeks of league play, the average margin of victory in 2023 CCIW games is five touchdowns (34.65 points). Again, last year the AMV in this league was 33.3 points, which was ridiculous enough, but it's apparently getting worse -- even though this coming week features two games (Augustana @ Wash U and Illinois Wesleyan @ North Park) that contain at least a hint of being interesting.

And this isn't a case of North Central pushing the numbers ridiculously high. Take the four games involving NCC out and the average margin of victory is 30.75 points, so only about a four point difference.

Exactly. As I said, this isn't a North Central issue, or a North-Central-and-Wheaton issue, or even an NCC-WC-WU issue. It's a top-to-bottom issue.

[Thunderdome21]

The North Central fans can pull out their magnifying glasses and spend time to their heart's content looking for things about the Cardinals to complain about. None of the rest of us care. None of the rest of us root for a team that's gonna come within 18 points of NCC -- and that includes Wash U, which is a very good football team, eleven days from today -- and most of us root for teams that have lost or are going to lose to North Central by a whole lot more than the 19 Wheaton was short. So all of that hand-wringing from the Napervillains is unleashing a lot of eye-rolling in other precincts of this league.

So NCC fans are no longer able to post on here about our team then? Got it.

I think you are making a good point. NCC's defense is not as dominant as it was last year. Although they still have 1st team AA Dan Lester (who is by far the best D-Line player in the conference), teams with really good O-lines can run the ball to some extent against them because this year's D-line isn't as dominant.

However, NCC's offense is better than last year's, even when losing Greenfield. Not only do they have the best Offensive Line in all of D-3, but they've added more speed in their skill positions. They are scary dominant. 

NCC's 19-point beatdown of Wheaton led to some needed personnel changes in their linebacker and safety positions. One of the changes took place during the game itself. 6th year Sr and last year's Sam LB starter Virgil Cannon had been riding the bench all of this year until after NCC scored its first 28 pts against Wheaton in the first 18 minutes of the game. Cannon comes in and ends up leading the Wheaton defense with 8 tackles and a forced fumble. Virgil's younger brother started the Elmhurst game at Strong Safety and ended up with a Forced Fumble and an interception.   And starting Will LB Clayton Reeves is finally back from injury. Reeves had over 50 tackles last year. Hopefully, with these personnel changes, Wheaton will stop giving up so many big run plays as they did in their first 4 games.

I am curious when Wash U and Augustana play NCC because Wash U's offense is dangerous and Augustana has a really good defensive front 7.  They will present their own sets of challenges to NCC. While I expect the same outcome as what happened to Wheaton (or worse), I believe they have the potential to be competitive at some level because NCC's defense isn't last year's NCC defense, which really had no weakness.  Those games will be good preparation for their playoff run. 

[kiko]

The North Central fans can pull out their magnifying glasses and spend time to their heart's content looking for things about the Cardinals to complain about. None of the rest of us care. None of the rest of us root for a team that's gonna come within 18 points of NCC -- and that includes Wash U, which is a very good football team, eleven days from today -- and most of us root for teams that have lost or are going to lose to North Central by a whole lot more than the 19 Wheaton was short. So all of that hand-wringing from the Napervillains is unleashing a lot of eye-rolling in other precincts of this league.

So NCC fans are no longer able to post on here about our team then? Got it.

Dunno what you got, but it wasn't from me. I don't see how you deduced "you can't post about NCC" from "other team's fans have no sympathy for your team's essentially nonexistent problems".

I think everyone wearing red and white recognizes that these are Uptown problems and that they are not likely to become problematic against most of the teams on the regular season schedule.  And, I think it is safe to say that we don't expect fans of other Pantone combinations to have much if anything in the way of empathy.

But that doesn't mean the issues are nonexistent.  Things that won't have a material impact in Week pick-your-number can become very problematic in a hurry down the road.  It's a function of the difference in quality at various points on that bell curve you referenced earlier.  And what I think you are hearing is folks wanting some of that cleaned up now before it becomes an issue.  Again, Uptown problems.  But problems nonetheless.

I'm a lot more concerned with the utter uncompetitiveness of what the Around The Nation guys have apparently dubbed "the C C I Double You". After four weeks of league play, the average margin of victory in 2023 CCIW games is five touchdowns (34.65 points). Again, last year the AMV in this league was 33.3 points, which was ridiculous enough, but it's apparently getting worse -- even though this coming week features two games (Augustana @ Wash U and Illinois Wesleyan @ North Park) that contain at least a hint of being interesting.

What I would be interested in -- Ypsi alert! -- is to see how that benchmarks against other conferences, whether they have a smattering of Top 20 programs or not.  And, whether that average margin has widened broadly across the division, or if it is just an issue with the CCIWMO.

NCC's defense is not as dominant as it was last year. Although they still have 1st team AA Dan Lester (who is by far the best D-Line player in the conference), teams with really good O-lines can run the ball to some extent against them because this year's D-line isn't as dominant.

However, NCC's offense is better than last year's, even when losing Greenfield.

I think this is exactly right.  What impact it has in the weeks ahead will be interesting (for some of us, at least) to watch unfold.

[Gregory Sager]

The North Central fans can pull out their magnifying glasses and spend time to their heart's content looking for things about the Cardinals to complain about. None of the rest of us care. None of the rest of us root for a team that's gonna come within 18 points of NCC -- and that includes Wash U, which is a very good football team, eleven days from today -- and most of us root for teams that have lost or are going to lose to North Central by a whole lot more than the 19 Wheaton was short. So all of that hand-wringing from the Napervillains is unleashing a lot of eye-rolling in other precincts of this league.

So NCC fans are no longer able to post on here about our team then? Got it.

Dunno what you got, but it wasn't from me. I don't see how you deduced "you can't post about NCC" from "other team's fans have no sympathy for your team's essentially nonexistent problems".

I think everyone wearing red and white recognizes that these are Uptown problems and that they are not likely to become problematic against most of the teams on the regular season schedule.  And, I think it is safe to say that we don't expect fans of other Pantone combinations to have much if anything in the way of empathy.

But that doesn't mean the issues are nonexistent.  Things that won't have a material impact in Week pick-your-number can become very problematic in a hurry down the road.  It's a function of the difference in quality at various points on that bell curve you referenced earlier.  And what I think you are hearing is folks wanting some of that cleaned up now before it becomes an issue.  Again, Uptown problems.  But problems nonetheless.

The issue here is a matter of context. NCC matters that are really November topics rather than October topics are best presented as fodder for a national board, where they can be bandied about with UMU, WIAC, SJU, Wartburg, etc., fans for whom such a discussion is relevant. Posting those concerns here comes off as humble-bragging disguised as worry, because it's beyond belief that the rest of us are really going to worry about whether or not the class bully's mama really loves him while he's sticking our head in the boys bathroom toilet and flushing while also informing us that an atomic wedgie is next on his agenda.

(And, no, Goulet, that's not me telling you guys to take your "Ohmigosh, can we actually sustain drives when all we've shown thus far is the ability to score 80-yard touchdowns at will?" shtick off of this board and onto another one, as if I had the right to do so. I'm simply saying that it's misdirected conversation for this particular audience and much more relevant to a nationally-based topics board.)

I'm a lot more concerned with the utter uncompetitiveness of what the Around The Nation guys have apparently dubbed "the C C I Double You". After four weeks of league play, the average margin of victory in 2023 CCIW games is five touchdowns (34.65 points). Again, last year the AMV in this league was 33.3 points, which was ridiculous enough, but it's apparently getting worse -- even though this coming week features two games (Augustana @ Wash U and Illinois Wesleyan @ North Park) that contain at least a hint of being interesting.

What I would be interested in -- Ypsi alert! -- is to see how that benchmarks against other conferences, whether they have a smattering of Top 20 programs or not.  And, whether that average margin has widened broadly across the division, or if it is just an issue with the CCIWMO.

I've thought the same thing, but, in deference to the absence and sad decline of our friend Mr. Ypsi, I'm not going to take the bait this time. What I am suggesting to Pat and Greg and to any of the other nationally-based guys is that they look at the numbers and see if bloated league-wide AMVs and chronic shortages of competitive games really is a D3-wide issue. It seems to me to be a highly relevant topic for them to at least examine.