FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

Yep. Unless you're an old-money school with a gargantuan endowment (of which a sufficient amount is in the form of non-directed gifts) or an extremely selective school -- and a large percentage of schools in one of those categories is in the other category as well, so we're talking about a pretty small slice of American higher education -- you're gonna be scrambling for new students, if you aren't already. Schools need to be both more strategic and more creative in terms of attracting students. And for D3 schools, athletics is a pretty good tool to have in the toolbox of strategic and creative thinking vis-a-vis admissions.

[Pat Coleman]

Student-athletes presently comprise over 30% of North Park's undergraduate population.  You guys know the rate at your schools?  I think 30% is too high.

There are D3 schools -- including CCIW schools -- where the percentage is higher. Sometimes much higher.

I have no problem with it. North Park is part of a great big chunk of D3's membership that is tuition-driven with regard to annual budget, so the enrollment needs to reach a certain level each year in order to keep the doors open. This problem becomes even more acute when you consider the demographic cliff over which the United States has just plunged; the number of 18-year-olds in the United States has dropped precipitously, and the number will continue to fall. Schools need to draw a sufficient number of students to maintain necessary enrollment levels despite this demographic environment, and athletics is a proven means to that end.

I was wondering why 2025 for this decline? Looks like pointing to 2008 financial crisis 17 years ago. So you have a smaller pool of high school graduates and from that smaller pool more and more are choosing not to go to college. They expect declines to continue into 2030's. Definitely sounds challenging....

https://thehill.com/changing-america/enrichment/education/4398533-college-enrollment-could-take-a-big-hit-in-2025-heres-why/

Rest assured that every college enrollment office knows about the enrollment cliff.

[WUPHF]

Yep. Unless you're an old-money school with a gargantuan endowment (of which a sufficient amount is in the form of non-directed gifts) or an extremely selective school -- and a large percentage of schools in one of those categories is in the other category as well, so we're talking about a pretty small slice of American higher education -- you're gonna be scrambling for new students, if you aren't already. Schools need to be both more strategic and more creative in terms of attracting students. And for D3 schools, athletics is a pretty good tool to have in the toolbox of strategic and creative thinking vis-a-vis admissions.

And with a few exceptions, if you are part of the large percentage of schools and are reporting an enrollment increase, with a few exceptions, it is because you gave far more merit and need-based aid than you had been, further complicating things...

[GusD]

I'm not seeing Trey Madsen on the North Central roster any longer. Is he no longer apart of the team?

They don't have any of their new transfers or incoming freshman on the roster at the moment. Not sure what happened, as they were all there in July.

If you go to the NCC FB web site--under Cardinal Gameday click on Story Preview. Then click on Complete Game Notes. In the Notes the full NCC roster is listed which shows #14 Trey Madsen WR 5-10 191 Gr. The Game Notes also show the 2 Deep Depth Charts for both NCC and Aurora. Madsen is listed as one of the 3 second team Wide Receivers for the Cardinals.

[NCC2010]

excited for NCC to kickoff the season tomorrow night, these are my biggest question marks as we enter the season:

Offense - Will there be a go-to WR in the passing game? We have had an All-American level receiver every season since 2019 (Kamienski, then Hardy). Our receivers usually get tons of 1 on 1 looks since teams sellout to stop the run game, so interested to see if any of them are able to take advantage in the same way Hardy and others did in the past.  If i had to pick one, it would probably be Jack Rummell to be that guy.

Defense - Who will be the boundary corner and will they be trusted in the same way as Walker and Beesley were? The front 7 is returning 5 starters, including all 3 linebackers as graduates, and should be solid.  The Shane Dierking called defenses thus far have relied on IMO the 2 best corners NCC has ever had locking down 1 side of the field.  The defense was simply not the same last season once Antwain Walker got hurt. My guess is Jahron Williams will start off as the boundary corner due to his length and physicality. Very interested to see if we adjust from leaving the boundary corner on an island the majority of the time or if the coaching staff believes they have a corner that talented.

Special teams - hoping the kicking situation improves this year. Kicking issues arent a problem when you blow teams out in the regular season but it was a HUGE factor in the title game.  they were forced to go for 4th and goal from the 15+ instead of kicking a somewhat routine FG.

really looking forward to the season and very happy that we get to face a formidable opponent in the opening game.

[IC798891]

And for D3 schools, athletics is a pretty good tool to have in the toolbox of strategic and creative thinking vis-a-vis admissions.

As an example, Ithaca, which is dealing with the enrollment challenges, just added a sport — women's wrestling — which should hopefully put it on the radar of a few dozen women who might otherwise not have considered IC

[Gregory Sager]

Fun fact: Last weekend's tandem performance by North Park wideouts Wesley McCloud (9-144, 2 TDs) and Jereme Ombogo (7-135, 2 TDs) marked the first time that a CCIW team has had two WRs simultaneously achieve 100 receiving yards and two touchdown catches in a game since North Central's Ryan Kuhl and Alex Ulmer did it against Rose-Hulman all the way back in 2016.

[CarollFan]

CCIW Notebook calling out performances across the conference week 1.

https://cciw.org/news/2024/9/12/cciw-football-weekly-notebook-sept-12-2024.aspx

[markerickson]

North Park does not have an enrollment problem.  Within athletics, the ever-increasing influx of Scandinavians pay in full, I presume, courtesy of his/her home country. Eliminate football and reinvest in other athletic programs to make them stronger.  Yeah, the CCIW mandates blahblahblah...  The CCIW added Wash U and Carroll returned, and we read about contemplation to add another school. So, why is it so special that NP field a football team?

Regarding the magic number for scheduling football-so what.  That is a diversionary tactic.

The financial health of the institution is obviously most important.  Also, North Park's gender equity numbers to Prong One are top five worst in the Midwest, regardless of division status.  Prong Two is a non-starter.  In Prong Three, the absence of lacrosse represents a concern. In addition, athletic facilities are beyond taxed for this landlocked institution.

North Park has somewhat of a housing crunch and aged dorms that need to be replaced.

[Gregory Sager]

North Park does not have an enrollment problem. Within athletics, the ever-increasing influx of Scandinavians pay in full, I presume, courtesy of his/her home country.

North Park does have an enrollment problem, Mark. Every school except for the very small upper-crust has an enrollment problem, as Pat and WUPHF pointed out. NPU forestalled the problem by a year by having a large freshman class, but make no mistake -- the school will be under the gun to repeat that every year for the foreseeable future in a dangerously tight market for wooing 17-year-olds. (Also, the good news regarding the large freshman class was somewhat lessened by a worse-than-usual retention rate for sophomores and by unsatisfactory numbers with regard to graduate enrollment.)

International students are part of the answer, but not nearly all of it. It costs money to recruit students abroad, so there are budgetary concerns with regard to the cost-benefit ratio of recruiting internationals. NPU's athletics department does a lot of the heavy lifting for admissions in that regard, since NPU has a lot of student-athletes who hail from Norway or Sweden, but by themselves they won't be enough to make up for the demographic shortfall.

And, no, not all Scandinavian countries foot the bills for a student's higher education. Swedes mostly pay full freight, although Norwegians pay little, if anything, because Norway is flush with oil money.

Eliminate football and reinvest in other athletic programs to make them stronger.  Yeah, the CCIW mandates blahblahblah...

Dismiss it as "blahblahblah" all you'd like, but you seriously underestimate the effect that CCIW membership has upon NPU's ability to recruit student-athletes. Drop out of the CCIW, and you may very well see what happened to North Park's sister school, Trinity International University, happen to North Park.

And by eliminating football you eliminate 100+ students from enrolling at North Park. Worse, it's 100+ male students, in an era in which higher education is a female-dominated endeavor and colleges and universities are thus actively seeking ways to encourage male enrollment.

The CCIW added Wash U and Carroll returned, and we read about contemplation to add another school.

Wash U and Carroll are not the same thing. Wash U is (soon "was") an associate member in football only. Carroll is a full member that plays all of its sports under the aegis of the CCIW, and Carroll thus has a seat on the council of CCIW presidents. Wash U, and fellow associate members Loras, Dubuque, MSOE, Chicago, etc., do not.

And the CCIW isn't adding another full member anytime soon. The CCIW presidents aren't even contemplating it. I've been told that more than once by NPU athletic director John Born over the past few years, including as recently as last week when it was announced that Wash U was involuntarily losing its associate status for football.

So, why is it so special that NP field a football team?

1. Tuition income
2. CCIW membership
3. Gender balance
4. The umbrella effect (in accordance with #1 and #3), as studies have shown that students at large are more likely to choose a college or university that has a football team than one that does not. (I'm pretty sure that the umbrella effect figured into Calvin's thinking when the school's leadership decided to add football after 160 years of not offering the sport.)
5. Alumni relations (despite North Park's perennial sad-sack performance on the gridiron, at least until recently, dumping the sport and leaving the CCIW for uncharted waters would almost certainly not sit well with most alumni)

Regarding the magic number for scheduling football-so what.  That is a diversionary tactic.

Diversionary tactic by whom, and for what purpose? Unless some amenable school comes forward cap in hand to apply for associate status in football, the CCIW is going to go to an unbalanced schedule when Wash U leaves, no doubt about it. It will be the responsibility of the nine CCIW football head coaches to deal with the problems of scheduling inherent in an odd-numbered D3 football league.

The financial health of the institution is obviously most important. Also, North Park's gender equity numbers to Prong One are top five worst in the Midwest, regardless of division status. Prong Two is a non-starter. In Prong Three, the absence of lacrosse represents a concern. In addition, athletic facilities are beyond taxed for this landlocked institution.

This is your area of expertise, so there's no doubt that you're right about NPU's Title IX status. But I have heard nothing about anything punitive being sent NPU's way because of it. I do know that John Born is looking at alternatives in terms of adding another women's sport or two -- but the financial situation is so delicate in this demographic environment that adding more sports has to be done carefully and with a lot of deliberation.

It's highly unlikely that women's lacrosse is under consideration, because, as you said, Holmgren Athletic Complex is already overextended every fall and spring as it is. NPU would probably have to rent facilities elsewhere (such as the athletic field at nearby Northeastern Illinois University) for both practice and competition, and that rental fee is itself a huge disincentive to add the sport, budgetwise.

North Park has somewhat of a housing crunch and aged dorms that need to be replaced.

I doubt that the dorms will be replaced, since dormitories are the dinosaurs of American higher education. NPU would like to acquire more apartment property, but that brings us right back to the issue of the budget crunch.

[NCC2010]

Couple of thoughts following NCC first game...

Trey Madsen ended up being the leading receiver but was actually the 5th WR to enter the game.  Rummell, Paradee and Skokna started, with Myles Walton the first off the bench.  By the end of the game however, I would say that Rummell played the most snaps, followed by Paradee and then Madsen. One other thing with the receiving corps that caught my eye, freshmen Grant McAtee and Drew Wills got to play an entire series in the 2nd quarter.  Last year this was similar to how Sean Allen and Charles Coleman were used in the first game and both ended up being big contributors. McAtee in particular is 6'5" and brings an element to the WR room with his size that we did not have last year.  Looking forward to how both those freshman progress as there was a ton of rotation overall in that group.

Both Sean Allen and Jahron Williams were not dressed and must be dealing with injuries.

on defense, Ethan Groark and Jahmar Daniel were actually the starting CBs (not sure if this is due to Jahron Williams not dressing, neither listed as a starter on depth chart) and rotated with Rahmareon Roby throughout the game.

Special teams, we got a punter! after having the QB pooch punt as our main way to punt the past 5 seasons or so it was nice to have an actual punter.  Also, looks like the coaching staff has more confidence in the kicker in his 2nd year which was great to see.

Overall, we seem to have more depth than last year, but maybe not the same peak high end talent. There is no Hardy in the WR room and no Antwain Walker in the DB room. First game so hoping that was the reason for the all the penalties, committing 10+ is never good though. 

[robertgoulet]

I was unable to watch but had a friend text me "the offensive line is so good".

It appears the starters played pretty much the whole game, which is mildly concerning as the offense stagnated in the 2nd half and the defense started getting gashed.

[NCC2010]

I was unable to watch but had a friend text me "the offensive line is so good".

It appears the starters played pretty much the whole game, which is mildly concerning as the offense stagnated in the 2nd half and the defense started getting gashed.

starters did in fact play the entire game, although there was a heavy rotation of players as i mentioned.  Aurora wasnt able to run the ball whatsoever but did have success throwing deep.  One of their TDs in the 2nd half came after a 30 or 40 yard scramble down to the 1 on 4th and long by the Aurora QB. Will say their QB was tough as nails as he got hit very hard on quite a few plays and kept popping back up and making nice throws. hard to tell after only 1 game how this NCC team compares to the past few years though i lean towards not as dominant.

[washdupcard]

excited for NCC to kickoff the season tomorrow night, these are my biggest question marks as we enter the season:

Offense - Will there be a go-to WR in the passing game? We have had an All-American level receiver every season since 2019 (Kamienski, then Hardy). Our receivers usually get tons of 1 on 1 looks since teams sellout to stop the run game, so interested to see if any of them are able to take advantage in the same way Hardy and others did in the past.  If i had to pick one, it would probably be Jack Rummell to be that guy.

Defense - Who will be the boundary corner and will they be trusted in the same way as Walker and Beesley were? The front 7 is returning 5 starters, including all 3 linebackers as graduates, and should be solid.  The Shane Dierking called defenses thus far have relied on IMO the 2 best corners NCC has ever had locking down 1 side of the field.  The defense was simply not the same last season once Antwain Walker got hurt. My guess is Jahron Williams will start off as the boundary corner due to his length and physicality. Very interested to see if we adjust from leaving the boundary corner on an island the majority of the time or if the coaching staff believes they have a corner that talented.

Special teams - hoping the kicking situation improves this year. Kicking issues arent a problem when you blow teams out in the regular season but it was a HUGE factor in the title game.  they were forced to go for 4th and goal from the 15+ instead of kicking a somewhat routine FG.

really looking forward to the season and very happy that we get to face a formidable opponent in the opening game.

"The Shane Dierking called defenses thus far have relied on IMO the 2 best corners NCC has ever had locking down 1 side of the field..." 

Respectfully, I think Norman "Junebug" Robinson (the 1999 CCIW Co-Defensive Player of the Year on an absolutely awful 2-7 team and NCC Athletics Hall of Famer) belongs in this conversation. It is incredibly hard to be selected for any of the player of the year awards in the CCIW when you're on a bad team unless you are truly exceptional. Not to mention that he played in a defensive scheme in which he was in man coverage about 95% of the time as the field side cover corner.

[robertgoulet]

I was unable to watch but had a friend text me "the offensive line is so good".

It appears the starters played pretty much the whole game, which is mildly concerning as the offense stagnated in the 2nd half and the defense started getting gashed.

starters did in fact play the entire game, although there was a heavy rotation of players as i mentioned.  Aurora wasnt able to run the ball whatsoever but did have success throwing deep.  One of their TDs in the 2nd half came after a 30 or 40 yard scramble down to the 1 on 4th and long by the Aurora QB. Will say their QB was tough as nails as he got hit very hard on quite a few plays and kept popping back up and making nice throws. hard to tell after only 1 game how this NCC team compares to the past few years though i lean towards not as dominant.

One of the old heads (Pat or USee or someone of that ilk) has mentioned that all elite/National Champ level teams having an elite game breaker somewhere on the roster. Right now with NCC I don't necessarily see one of those anywhere. Some very very good players across the board but no single player that Coordinators are going to lose sleep thinking "my goodness how are we going to deal with him?".