FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[matblake]

I agree that $ would play a role in recruiting, but I think that there is also a certain amount of guys who play for one year and decide to leave the team.  I am sure that almost everyone has a story of a guy who "fell in love" or who had a lot of different interests and decided to give up football.  Nobody can control whose makes these decisions.  I think that is one of the double edged swords to recruiting in general.  You can emphasize the diversity of things at the campus to attract the player and then they may decide to pursue other interests later.

[Mugsy]

Not that statistics by themselves mean much of anything (especially this early on), and void of any attempt to interpret the results, here are some interesting stats for CCIW teams so far:

Scoring Offense: #1 Elmhurst @ 53.5 pts/game
Scoring Defense: #1 NPU @ 6.5 pts/game
Rushing Defense: #1 NPU @ 1.0 yds/game, #7 Augie @ 109.0 yds/game
Passing Defense: #7 Augie @ 288.0 yds/game
Total Defense: #1 NPU @ 100.0 yds/game, #7 Augie @ 397.0 yds/game
Time of Possession: #7 Wheaton @ 27:51 minutes
Pass Efficiency: #2 Augie @ 179.6 (only 5 passes though), #7 Wheaton @ 53.0
Kick Returns: #7 Augie @ 4 returns for -4.5 avg.

Taking a quick look at the stats without ANY interpretation, who are the CCIW favorites again?

[markerickson]

Mugsy and DevilDog:  I guess then that IWU and Augie are the exceptions, which I find very hard to accept.  The comprehensive research, as reported in The Chronicle for Higher Education, indicated the practice is widespread.  That is, Ivies do it as well as schools like Williams and Bowdoin.  It is prevalent at the DI, DII, and DIII levels.

[Mugsy]

Not sure why I'm getting lumped into the whole tuition & academics issue. 

Page 22 Mr. Ypsi is the one who brought up the question of "what's happening in Bloomington?"

Page 24 devildog responded incorrectly to me as if I brought up the question.  USee, Hiker, and TitanQ all added to the argument that they think tuition and academics have played a significant factor in the dropoff at IWU.

Page 25: HughJass lumped Augie into the mix.

At this point you responded with your view. 

I responded to your comment that "too bad schools don't decrease tuition with the largesse" by pointing out that Wheaton does in fact have a lower tuition due to alumni giving.  That's it!  I made no argument either way as to if this is why Augie or IWU aren't getting the same level of recruits.  I also pointed out that I recalled IWU, Augie & NPU had the highest tuition in the CCIW. 

I don't disagree with the notion that athletes in general get a break in terms of admissions standards.  You point out a study that validates your point.  I'm just saying it is inappropriate to lump ALL schools into that category.  Saying it is widespread does not support it is fact at ALL schools.  I pointed out the only case I have direct experience and knowledge of as a member of the coaching staff.  I know admission to Wheaton is the same for athletes and non-athletes (with very minor exception to 2-4 players).  I DID NOT imply Wheaton was the only school that this is the case.  It's just the only one I know first hand.

I guess you just have me in your sites to take target practice, for whatever reason, and I'm sensing hostility. 

Personally, I don't think you can look to just one factor as to why IWU is down recently.

[devildog29]

mugsy, i mentioned you because i agree with your statement about teams like wheaton and iwu not getting the 2-4 player exceptions with the admissions board.  like you saw that at wheaton, the same thing is happening at iwu.  as for the titans conference record, we haven't had a winning record the last 3 years, true.  however, didn't we win the conference 2 or 3 years in a row just before that?  by that logic, we should have had amazing recruiting classes with studs that should have been playing the last couple of years.  as for player attrition, teams have always had that, nothing new recently.  i think i graduated in the 90's with maybe 8 or 10 classmates as seniors when we had around 45 or 50 to start with as freshmen. 

[devildog29]

as far as augie and iwu being the exception to the rule of allowing lower qualified athletes admission, yes they are the exception, i don't care how widespread the practice is.  there is always exceptions to every study/poll you can find.  that's why there is always a margin of error in every single scientific sample.  10 years ago, iwu, augie, and wheaton would all fall into the category of allowing lower qualified athletes into the school.  today, that's not the case.  bottom line.  period.  end of story.

[Mugsy]

devildog29,
No problem.  

Regarding the attrition levels, from a Wheaton perspective player attrition is quite low.  My class (89') started with 20 or 21 players as freshmen.  On senior day, we had 19 or 20 seniors being honored.  By in large Wheaton loses very few players over the 4 years.

That being said, Wheaton never has 40-50 freshmen either!  In fact I think the 2005 recruiting classes is one of the largest ever at 32.

[devildog29]

i have nothing to compare it to (except for now wheaton) but i think iwu may have a kinda high attrition, which is why they always have at least 40 freshmen.  several factors, of course, contribute - some realize they don't have the talent they thought they had, so don't like the fact that more dedication is required on the college level than high school, some have "philosophical differences" with coaching staff, etc.  last year was a perfect example, the starting qb at the beginning of the year quit after what, the 2nd game?

[Tailgater]

RedmenFB44:
Pretty good analysis of the game, but saying O'boyle played well is more than a stretch. He fumbled 4 or 5 snaps from center losing a couple of them in crucial field position. Completed only 5 of 15 passes. Threw an interception early in the second half which was returned for a touchdown and fortunately negated by a clipping call. This all led to him being replaced by Sharp. If it were my call he might have been watching and learning from the sidelines earlier in the game. O'boyle will be a good QB down the road when he he beefs up his 165 lb frame and earns the respect (through consistency of play) of his offensive teammates. Sharp has the respect of the offensive unit he works with. Most are juniors like Sharp and have played together for the past three years, The offense picked up their beat because Mike was back with them on the field, make no mistake about that. When Mike's arm is at full strength he will lead the Redmen offense.

PS... I enjoyed watching you play last year Matt. You're right when eluding to (not saying) Carthage needs to get that same explosive blocking from their fullback that you provided for Dante. This will certainly help the offensive production. I would also like to see Namon blast through the holes (which open only briefly) instead of stutter stepping and dancing into the line of scrimmage. He is physically impressive and should use his strength for all it's worth. Tyson had more success during the lakeland game as hit the holes at full speed. Best wishes to you in your post collegiate endeavors!

[Tailgater]

Pat:
Not that rankings mean a whole lot to me but, (I admit I do check them for that pride factor) I'm curious to know how #15 Carthage defeats lakeland this past weekend and drops to #18. Two teams ranked beneath them last week didn't play and leaped over Carthage this week. How does that work?

[Tailgater]

Pat:
Correction:
only Concordia-Moorehead didn't play, Ithica played it's first game, but the question still stands.

[Pat Coleman]

A Top 15 team should be playing better. You don't get a pass just by winning each week. This isn't Division I-A. There are 231 teams in Division III.

[markdamaker40]

So if Carthage some how develops an offense this week and beats Benedictine 45-0 they will jump up in the polls if Whitewater wins by 3 over Lakeland.

[oap5387]

oh.... yeah by the way...north park has lowered tuition to $13,900 so it is no longer the most expensive.....

why is everyone acting all funny after just 2 games.... calm down. ..i have a funny feeling that we'll all be singing a different tune this time next week.  well, except North Park of course!!

[Pat Coleman]

if Whitewater wins by 3 over Lakeland.

I am not holding my breath on that but if it happens I expect you'd see re-evaulation of Carthage, Whitewater and Lakeland. And if Carthage beats up on Benedictine they'll merely be doing what everyone else has done so far.