FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[augiedogie]

dansand:

I would have to disagree with you about Augie's offense taking awhile to get going. They scored on their 1st 2 possessions of the game. From there they seemed to get a little too complacent, and didn't score till the opening drive of the second half. They also were complacent for most of the rest of the game except for the 3 td's in the final 6 minutes of that game.

IWU had 2 interetings/strange plays where 1 they tried to change formations to fake an extra point which backfired with a pentaly, and the other one they took a time out with a couple of seconds left in the game to throw a pass. He payed for it dearly when he got sacked.

[Pat Coleman]

I agree. I was disappointed with what happened to Carthage, for example, but they can probably get back in good graces with a win against Wheaton.

That probably doesn't make you feel any better, though, Hiker. 

[dtown2]

Augustana has struggled down in Decatur in past years. 2 years ago winning on a last second pass setting up a game winning field goal. North Central lost down in Decatur last year on a hail mary pass. Nothing is for certain. Millikin also held Carthage tough until the final minute or so.

[washdupcard]

Tailgater,

Judging by your "Rucks" post, I would have to say you may be the least objective poster on this topic.

I'm also interested in how you define "deliberate" versus the rest of the world.  Maybe you should use that dictionary you have to check out the definition. 

[dansand]

augiedogie,

Augie did score on their first two possessions, but the first was set up by a Wesleyan fumble on the first play from scrimmage. They only had to go 25 yards and it took them eight or nine plays, I think, to do it. So, they really only had one solid scoring drive in the first half. But that's also the beauty of Augie's offense. Even when they're only getting 3-and-a-half yards a play, they can keep the chains moving and the clock running as long as it's a consistent 3-and-a-half yards. It's more fun, though, when they bust off a few long ones like they apparently did in the second half.

[usee]

hiker-i agree. the d3top 25 is really disappointing this week. how in the world does carthage fall out and get 4 votes? we should have at least 3 teams and probably 4  in the top 25.

lacrosse loses to uww and loses 1 spot. concordia-m loses to st johns and moves down 1 spot. ithaca loses to UNRANKED lycoming and moves down 7 spots. but ncc beats carthage  and carthage drops 19 spots? that is pretty inconsistent.

[Pat Coleman]

All of those other losses you cite are the teams' first loss (or the first loss to a Division III school, UW-L lost to a I-AA full scholarship program). None of the teams you cited lost back-to-back games, like Carthage did.

Compare to UW-Eau Claire, which fell from No. 19 to just 10 overall points after its second consecutive loss. If Carthage also had a win against a ranked team in its hip pocket somewhere, that would be a different story, but as I said, that can come later.

[Tailgater]

washdup:
Deliberate: adj. To consider, weigh well.  1) Carefully thought out and formed, or done on purpose;premeditated. 2) careful in considering, judging or deciding; not rash or hasty. So how do you think the rest of the world defines it?

A dirty player (as I believe you all intend) doesn't become a cheap shot artist in an instant or on "a" play and then reverts to a player with class and character the next. A dirty player sets out to inflict damage when and wherever he can by intent (in my opinion of coarse). I would challenge you to explain how you would know the intent of any player's action. Crap happens in a football game. I had my arm snapped to a 90 degree angle. Was the player who did it dirty and intending to injur me? A player throws a late block. Did he line up thinking "I'll clean his clock after the whistle when he's unsuspecting"? Who knows. For anyone to characterize an entire team as dirty is just totally off base. To determine you know any individual player's intent on a play that may yield a personal foul penalty is ridiculus. I just watched my game film from saturday and saw some late collisions/hits by NCC players. Are they all dirty players? I think not, but by other posters comments I've read these players would be thrown into their concept of "dirty player". Hope that helps you understand my statements.

[augievike]

Here's the main difference with Carthage.  A player may get a personal foul every now and then for being aggressive.  That is ok it happens.  But at Carthage it is the same players every week doing the exact same things.  Thats where it changes from being aggressive to being dirty.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Although I would still have Carthage in my own top 25, I'll have to stick up for Pat on this one (and I'm sure that Pat could testify that this is NOT a common occurrence!)

My question is on the other side of the game - why didn't NCC rise more than they did?  Unless the game is dismissed as a fluke, I would suggest that any team that can ring up 43 points on that Carthage defense is a top 10 (perhaps even top 5) team.

I readily admit that I know very little about many of the teams ranked higher than NCC, but I'm willing to bet that VERY few of them could rung up 43 points on a team that held Augie to 7.

[Pat Coleman]

They did hop over a team that didn't lose. That's significant.

[Mr. Ypsi]

True, they did jump W&J, but they DIDN'T pass LAX or C-M who LOST.  (Admittedly to very good teams, but they still lost.)

I admit I'm only arguing one side of the case, but I can't see more than 3 or 4 teams in the country (if that) that could light up Carthage for 43.  Whether NCC's DEFENSE is good enough to move them significantly higher than their ranking, I just don't know.

[augiedogie]

Mr. Yepsi:

You can't compare the amount of points Carthage gave up against Augie to NCC because they have 2 completely different styles of offense. With your logic, why did NCC give up 24 points to Carthage while Carthage was shut out by Augie.

[Tailgater]

A player may get a personal foul every now and then for being aggressive.  That is ok it happens.  But at Carthage it is the same players every week doing the exact same things.  Thats where it changes from being aggressive to being dirty.

So a player who is aggressive one week becomes or should become  less aggressive in a following week? I bet coaches would love that. Sounds like that would be considered inconsistency in performance to me. You make a definitive charge about the same Carthage players being flaged every week. Care to share some numbers or are you saying that to sort of make a point?

[Mr. Ypsi]

augiedogie,

AS I SAID, I'm only arguing one side of the case - I think there are (VERY) few teams that could score 43 against Carthage.  How many teams could HOLD Carthage to any particular number is a question I didn't address.

And I agree that the two are PARTIALLY intertwined, but ONLY partially.