FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[matblake]

I think jaybird makes a good point as far as location goes.  I think a lot of the CCIW schools tend to play non-conference games vs. the Michigan schools.  I know that the WIAC ususally has a big rivalry with the Minnesota schools.  There are only so many non-conference games that one can have.  With only so many weeks in a season, the logistics might be too much.  Let's also remember that the WIAC is in the West Region and that the CCIW is in the North Region.  Not sure about the mileage between most of the schools.  That might play into it as well.

[Mugsy]

matblake,

Good point!  The whole in-region vs. out of region issue.

[voice]

Actually the Minnesota schools are not very fond of playing WIAC schools.  There are exceptions, such as St. Johns annually opening the season against Eau Claire, and St. Johns playing River Falls for the first time this coming season.  The Iowa (IIAC) schools very rarely play a WIAC school, only when they absolutely, positively need to fill their roster. 

As far as in-region games are concerned.  Many of the CCIW games would qualify in-region with Whitewater. Among those schools are IWU and Augustana.

I just don't understand why D3 schools in neighboring states don't seem to want to play non-conference games vs. the WIAC when a school like St. Xavier (IL) relishes the opportunity and has competed very well against WW over the past four or five seasons. 

I guess the situation all boils down to the feelings of the Carthage College President.   

[79jaybird]

If you were to ask 10 people about the quality of education in any of the 8 CCIW schools, 9 of them would say you can't go wrong with any school.  The 1 who wouldn't say that a CCIW school was great, probably failed out.  The CCIW is excellent on and off the field, which makes it so attractive. Put the sports rivalries aside, academically I think the CCIW is in an elite group.
If I know Tom Journell, I see Elmhurst putting a WIAC school in their non conf. schedule in a couple of years.  A conditioned assistant coach in the WIAC, I think he would relish the opportunity to compete against his former colleagues.  Right now, I would say Elmhurst is "almost there" to the point where they could compete with the WIAC.
Say what you want to about Augie's program, I tip my cap to them because they don't schedule creampuffs in the non conf.  I always recall Augie scheduling quality teams in the non conf.

[79jaybird]

Voice, I am surprised that the MIAC conf. doesn't like playing the WIAC because in the NFL, once you get west/ NW of Madison, the rivalry between the Packers and Vikings is more heated than the Bears/Packers.  IMO I would think that these two D3 confs. would appreciate beating up on each other.
Baldwin Wallace is a quality OAC Team.  They played Wheaton in the playoffs a few years ago and are a strong team.

[Red Reign]

If you were to ask 10 people about the quality of education in any of the 8 CCIW schools, 9 of them would say you can't go wrong with any school.  The 1 who wouldn't say that a CCIW school was great, probably failed out.  The CCIW is excellent on and off the field, which makes it so attractive. Put the sports rivalries aside, academically I think the CCIW is in an elite group.
If I know Tom Journell, I see Elmhurst putting a WIAC school in their non conf. schedule in a couple of years.  A conditioned assistant coach in the WIAC, I think he would relish the opportunity to compete against his former colleagues.  Right now, I would say Elmhurst is "almost there" to the point where they could compete with the WIAC.
Say what you want to about Augie's program, I tip my cap to them because they don't schedule creampuffs in the non conf.  I always recall Augie scheduling quality teams in the non conf.

Elmhurst is "almost there", I would have to strongly disagree with you. For the exception for this year Augie has hand their hands full with UW-Platteville (the worst team in the WIAC). I personally think that the WIAC is just a overall better conf. then the CCIW for several reasons. Athletes pay state tution, avg $3000 a year, Wisconsin also only has 1 d-1 program in the state, Illinois has 6. So alot of IL talent goes and plays d-1AA, good WI talent ethier go to madison or go into the WIAC (probably why they have the most pro's in the NFL), some WI football studs will go into MN and play D-2 however areas like around Whitewater which is very close to the Illinois boarder do not want to go 7 hours away from home. Not only all of that, they get state funds, I dont know if any of you has seen then WIAC facilities (UWW, UWL) their crazy. Seriouly looks like a d-1 program. So I think not only elmhurst but the whole CCIW is not ready to play the WIAC top 5 teams, not because they can't hang with them, because they are overlly funded, and the reasons stated below. WAIC should play D-2.


I still love the CCIW, and I predict the CCIW champion this year will go to the show.

[dansand]

shark,

I think hands full would be a bit of an overstatement in regards to Augie-Platteville. While the Pioneers are definitely a bottom feeder in the WIAC, Augie is 5-1 in the last seven years  against them and were leading in the lightning-plagued "no-contest" in 2002. Four of the five wins have been blowouts. The Vikes also lost two very close games to Stevens Point (a much better WIAC representative) in 2002 and 2003.

But, I definitely agree with your overall point that the WIAC schools have advantages over their private school counterparts.

[matblake]

Voice, agree with you as far as the distance to Whitewater goes.  Since I am a fan of Wheaton first and foremost, here are some of the distances:
Wheaton to:  Whitewater 95 (in region), Platteville 201 (out of region), Oshkosh 183 (in region), Eau Claire 302 (out of region), Stout (located in Menomonie) 327 (out of region), River Falls 366 (out of region), Stevens Point 234 (out of region), and La Crosse 267 (out of region).  So for Wheaton you have 2 or possibly 3 teams to make an in region game. Wheaton already has an out of region game with Bethel in Minnesota schedule through 2009.  With the region structure, you better be darn well sure you will win the Pool A from your conference if you schedule 2 out of region games.  I think getting through the CCIW without a loss is usually not realistic thinking, especially with the strides some CCIW schools are making.

Just want to point out that I used Mapquest instead of the NCAA's Streets and Trips and that I used the "center of town" for the Wisconsin locations because it was easier than looking up the specific address.  That might cause some discrepancy, particularly between the Wheaton to Platteville trip. 

[5wide]

Elmhurst is "almost there", I would have to strongly disagree with you. For the exception for this year Augie has hand their hands full with UW-Platteville (the worst team in the WIAC). I personally think that the WIAC is just a overall better conf. then the CCIW for several reasons. Athletes pay state tution, avg $3000 a year, Wisconsin also only has 1 d-1 program in the state, Illinois has 6. So alot of IL talent goes and plays d-1AA, good WI talent ethier go to madison or go into the WIAC (probably why they have the most pro's in the NFL), some WI football studs will go into MN and play D-2 however areas like around Whitewater which is very close to the Illinois boarder do not want to go 7 hours away from home. Not only all of that, they get state funds, I dont know if any of you has seen then WIAC facilities (UWW, UWL) their crazy. Seriouly looks like a d-1 program. So I think not only elmhurst but the whole CCIW is not ready to play the WIAC top 5 teams, not because they can't hang with them, because they are overlly funded, and the reasons stated below. WAIC should play D-2.


I still love the CCIW, and I predict the CCIW champion this year will go to the show.

The WIAC has scheduled D2 programs from the NSIC, namely Winona State, and Winona no longer plays the WIAC schools because it hurt their strength of schedule.  The fact is that the WIAC couldn't compete with the area D2 schools and rarely would pull out a win.  Go back 10-Years and maybe the WIAC was competing, but MN D2 schools have really stepped up their programs recently.

[Longtooth]

It looks like Elmhurst has done a nice job catching up!  Keep it going.

[79jaybird]

I was almost going to go to Winona ST. beautiful area along the Mississippi, right across from LaCrosse.  WSU usually wins their conf. and makes it to the playoffs with success.
Shark56, it's o.k. to disagree.    That's the fun on this board.
IMO, I don't think you give the CCIW enough credit.
Elmhurst has scrimmaged against UW Oshkosh the last few years and their #1 lines vs. our #1 lines have been very competitive with each other.  I realize a scrimmage is just that - a scrimmage, but I think some of the CCIW schools would be able to hold their own vs. the WIAC.
Longtooth, IMO Elmhurst hasn't "caught up" yet.  They are what I like to refer to as a "work in progress" and they are getting there.
When they start putting up consistent 6, 7, or 8+ win seasons, then I would be able to classify them as catching up.
The days of Elm being blown out 62-0 and 59-0 are gone, now it's a matter of putting the solid pieces together to make them a weekly threat.  I have all the confidence in Journell and the players that they can do it.  Just like I have confidence that Neibuhr will bring Millikin back, and Swider will have Wheaton competitive this year.

[5wide]

I went to Winona and won a few championships there.  There dominate their conference winning it five out of the last six years.  I can attest that none of the WI D3 schools are remotely close to competiting with Winona.  Maybe they could compete with some of the bottom schools from that conf, but they would get spanked by the top 4 each year.

[Red Reign]

shark,

I think hands full would be a bit of an overstatement in regards to Augie-Platteville. While the Pioneers are definitely a bottom feeder in the WIAC, Augie is 5-1 in the last seven years  against them and were leading in the lightning-plagued "no-contest" in 2002. Four of the five wins have been blowouts. The Vikes also lost two very close games to Stevens Point (a much better WIAC representative) in 2002 and 2003.

But, I definitely agree with your overall point that the WIAC schools have advantages over their private school counterparts.

your right I was thinking of UWSP, was it the augie UWP game a few years ago with the like 52 yard field goal or was it AC and UWSP. Also to comment on the WIAC playing D2 in MN, well like 5wide said, they can compete with the bottom 4 as a d3 school, throw in some scholarships, get some better talent here and there... I think they can compete in def.

[irish21]

Right back at you - Usee!!!

[dansand]

shark,

I think hands full would be a bit of an overstatement in regards to Augie-Platteville. While the Pioneers are definitely a bottom feeder in the WIAC, Augie is 5-1 in the last seven years  against them and were leading in the lightning-plagued "no-contest" in 2002. Four of the five wins have been blowouts. The Vikes also lost two very close games to Stevens Point (a much better WIAC representative) in 2002 and 2003.

But, I definitely agree with your overall point that the WIAC schools have advantages over their private school counterparts.

your right I was thinking of UWSP, was it the augie UWP game a few years ago with the like 52 yard field goal or was it AC and UWSP. Also to comment on the WIAC playing D2 in MN, well like 5wide said, they can compete with the bottom 4 as a d3 school, throw in some scholarships, get some better talent here and there... I think they can compete in def.

That was the 2003 game against Platteville. Mike Clark's 54-yard field goal at the final gun won it for Augie, who lost the next year to UWP on a 25-yard game-ending field goal. Those have been the only two games with the Pioneers since '99 that have been very close.