FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[CardinalAlum]

Alum,

I'm with you on lamenting the absence of old and memorable posters from the days of yore.

Now that you're a lawyer, don't you guys speak English? 

[Mr. Ypsi]

Alum,

I'm with you on lamenting the absence of old and memorable posters from the days of yore.

Now that you're a lawyer, don't you guys speak English? 

That would be illegal!

[thunderdog]

Anyone else notice that usee has been kinda M.I.A. lately?

As for the ability to rile up the opposition, Titan Booster would come in 2nd on my list behind the one and only...

THE MAD SWEDE!

[Jim Matson]

devildog, the feeling is mutual.

[Comet 14]

Lets hear predictions of the biggest upset in D3 this weekend

[Gregory Sager]

Interesting Jaybird that Elmhurst considers IWU to be the big basketball rival because I don't really think the honor is given such importance from our perspective, though I'm speaking as a fan as I played football not basketball.

That's an important point, Devildog. For a rivalry to be truly legit, it really needs to be a two-sided affair. If School A considers School B to be a rival, and School B doesn't really give a hoot about School A one way or the other, can it really be a rivalry?

I say this from personal experience as a Parker. From the first day one sets foot on the North Park campus as a student, it's drummed into that freshman's head that Wheaton is the archenemy. (Three years ago, I happened to be on the NPU campus during the first day of New Student Orientation, and I saw that someone had put a sign on the footbridge across the Chicago River in the middle of campus that read, "THANK YOU FOR NOT CHOOSING WHEATON!") There are all sorts of reasons for this fervent sense of rivalry on the part of Parkers, from the common evangelical affinities of the two schools to their differing social philosophies to the fact that there's a lot of cross-pollination within families and churches as far as Wheaton and NPU are concerned, to a certain amount of "little brother syndrome" on the part of those who support the less-well-known and less-endowed school (NPU). No matter what the sport, the penultimate game or games in any Vikings athlete's season is always Wheaton. It was even that way in men's basketball back in the seventies and eighties when the Vikings were winning national titles and Wheaton was mediocre at best. As much as the Vikings got up to play the conference's other powerhouses, Augustana and Illinois Wesleyan (and later North Central), it was always Wheaton that energized the Vikings fans the most and brought out the best in the players. Wheaton is, was, and probably always will be the school that makes NPU see red.

Do Wheaties care? No. Most of them are barely even aware of NPU's existence, and of the Wheaties that do follow their school's sports (and are thus at least semi-familiar with the other seven schools of the CCIW), North Park doesn't seem to elicit any particular excitement. That's because Parkers focus upon Wheaton for the non-athletics reasons I stated above ... but Wheaties don't share those antagonisms, so the only thing that could motivate them into reciprocating the animosity that would make it a true two-way rivalry would be the actual athletic competition itself. And, unfortunately, NPU just hasn't been competitive very often in any sport over the past decade and a half. So there's no reason for the Wheaties to get worked up over the Park.

That might be changing now. NPU is still struggling in a lot of sports -- football being an obvious example, since not having a winning season since 1968 and not winning a CCIW game since 2000 is about as compelling evidence of a program's pathology as anything could possibly be -- but the Vikings are becoming dominant in the sport that seems to capture the attention of Wheaties more than any other: Men's soccer. If NPU can continue to smack around Wheaton on the soccer pitch, it might spark the Wheaties into finally reciprocating NPU's antagonism, which would thus foster a true rivalry for the first time since Wheaton re-entered the CCIW in the late sixties.

There's also different levels of rivalry. What athletes consider to be a rival isn't necessarily shared by the rest of the student body. I know that Carthage and Elmhurst athletes in at least two sports (football and men's basketball) have considered the other school to be a rival at least at one time or another over the past decade, but are those sentiments shared by the rest of their two respective student bodies?

Also, time, tradition, and proximity have a lot to do with the bona-fides of a rivalry. Millikin and Illinois Wesleyan have the best overall rivalry in this conference, because it is an ancient one and because they're the only two downstate schools left in the CCIW. Those three factors -- time, tradition, and proximity -- also explain the roots of what most people consider to be the three best rivalries in D3: Calvin/Hope, Amherst/Williams, and DePauw/Wabash., as well as a lot of other good ones such as St. Thomas/St. John's, Scranton/Wilkes, Ithaca/Cortland State, etc.

[RedmenFB44]

I know that in football when I played (2001-2004), we rivaled IWU because their coach at the time (I dont know if he is still there) would say terrible things about our program. He would say that we have terrible facilities (which is crazy we have one of if not the best) and that our coaches do not know how to coach and a recruit is wasting his time if he comes to Carthage. So every year we would try and get an extra little pop on someone at the end of a play, when we played IWU (legal of course  ) I dont know if that stands anymore with the Redmen but I would say the team we wanted to beat the most was IWU.

[raiderguy]

Mugsy,

Just noticed your #800 post and a move up to All Conference!

Nice work.

[coocooforcoekohawk]

Those three factors -- time, tradition, and proximity -- also explain the roots of what most people consider to be the three best rivalries in D3: Calvin/Hope, Amherst/Williams, and DePauw/Wabash., as well as a lot of other good ones such as St. Thomas/St. John's, Scranton/Wilkes, Ithaca/Cortland State, etc.

Cornell/Coe the oldest football rivalry west of the Mississippi, and that's all levels of football not just DIII.  Less than fifteen miles apart.

[matblake]

Speaking of posters who could stir things up... anyone remember "redbus" and his short-lived time on the CCIW board?

Short lived is right.  I think it only took him a couple of days to get banned.

[ncc58]

There's a story in today's print newspaper that the mumps is a problem at Wheaton, and that 7 students have been quarantined. Has this affected of the Wheaton players, or are they taking any extra precautions? I'm assuming they are but will that affect their practice or game preparation?

[formerd3db]

G. Sager:

Regarding the rivalries, you make some good valid points.  Indeed, there are different levels of rivalries as you discuss.  However, I would just comment, if I may, that IMO despite one school not considering the other to be a rival while the latter may seriously consider it to be so, in reality it is a rivalry.  Perceived arrogance, indifference, etc., of one school towards the other obviously fuels this, and in many cases, the "underdog" becomes even more determined and, therefore, when they do win on occasion, it is a big "slap" or perhaps better said an embarrassment for the so called upper level school. 

For sure, the current situation you describe about NP and Wheaton is a sound example of your points (there are other similar situations as we all know) and it is very likely that it will take NP a while to improve the fb program (current coach, though, has a good chance of doing it if anybody can) and it is fair to say that NP's program will never reach the level of Wheaton's.  However, that being said, it still is a great feeling for the underdog to win and you and I both know that when that happens, the top tier school that loses doesn't like it at all - which causes all the more animosity and disparaging remarks about the other.  Another similar example is Olivet in our MIAA.  They've made great strides in recent years in various areas and are a much more competitive fb program (as well as school), but will not likely ever be perceived among the "elite" in the conference (no disrespect intended).  However, it is true that while their "rivalry" is not as elite as others in the conference, when it comes right down to it on the field, it is, for both players and fans (even if the latter publically doesn't consider it).  Not disagreeing with you, but just adding some personal views as to how I view these situations.  Interesting discussion - thanks.

[ncc58]

In football, North Central's big rival is Wheaton for local and political reasons that extend beyond the school.

In non-football sports, Augustana was maybe the biggest rival. Over the years, Augie has been the prime competitor in cross country and track, and this season in basketball. In football, the Augie game is typically the barometer for whether the team had a good or bad season.

North Park hardly raises an eyebrow at NCC, however that wasn't always the case. In 1968, North Park beat NCC 104-32. It remains the highest scoring game in NCC history. North Park "let"  NCC score several times in the 4th quarter so that they could break 100 points. Johnny Carson even made jokes on the Tonight Show about the game, according to the legend. For a while, the SID would always make the news articles about the '68 game available for players and fans. In my four years, we beat North Park by a total of 162-38. I'm just sorry it wasn't worse than that.

[matblake]

Rivalries are often one sided.  Hate to bring it up here as an example from DI, but here goes.  Take Michigan v Michigan State in football.  For the Spartans, with the possible exception of Notre Dame, the Michigan game is the big one.  Michigan of course would love to beat State, but the big game in Ann Arbor is against Ohio State.  Just because Michigan focuses on the Buckeyes doesn't diminish the hatred MSU has for them.

Since the wife went to MSU have to throw in an obligatory joke displaying the arrogance of Michigan graduates.  "How do you know that someone went to U of M?  Oh, don't worry, they'll tell you."  

[wally_wabash]

Any thoughts from the Millikin crowd on this weekend's game at Wabash?  Some of the luster is off this one given last weekend's results, but it should still be a very good college football game.