FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Mugsy]

Mugsy so wise as always.  +  Karma for you  8)

thanks... but I'm sure I'll provide ample opportunity to take it away later.

[matblake]

The primary difference in that game was special teams.  You can NOT underestimate the importance of superior special teams play.   3 Mount Union TD's as a direct result of special teams play - 1 blocked punt for a TD, 41 yard punt return to Wheaton 22 yard line sets up another TD, and the killer 91 yard kickoff return just after Wheaton scored to make the game interesting.

Ugh, that still hurts.

[CardinalAlum]

(gotta love the fact that a team making it "only" to the semis, is a down year).

I love this quote!  i wish a down year for us was not winning a National Championship! 

I am finally KARMA WORTHY. 

CAN YOU SAY ABUSE OF POWER! 

Congrats on your "promotion"!

[CardinalAlum]

Mugsy so wise as always.  +  Karma for you  8)

thanks... but I'm sure I'll provide ample opportunity to take it away later.

And then some.......

[diehardfan]

And if you notice I did make mention to that game in 2002 against Wheaton. I just didn't remember if it was 2001 or 2002.  I was not making a case for the Carthage game, I was just wondering.  Don’t be such a Homer.  DOH!!  

I did notice, that's why I talked about it. And note how I casually forgot to mention ()the next year, where we played right with them for the entire 1Q, and then got pasted in the second quarter in completely demoralizing fashion!

I am finally KARMA WORTHY. 

CAN YOU SAY ABUSE OF POWER! 

lol... I just figured out why you were so karma happy... congrats!

The primary difference in that game was special teams.  You can NOT underestimate the importance of superior special teams play.   3 Mount Union TD's as a direct result of special teams play - 1 blocked punt for a TD, 41 yard punt return to Wheaton 22 yard line sets up another TD, and the killer 91 yard kickoff return just after Wheaton scored to make the game interesting.

Ugh, that still hurts.

I can't believe I brought up that MUC game... that was one of the most painful sports games of my whole life to watch. It was made even more painful by the fact that we totally had a chance to win if we hadn't made so many mistakes, and just... blah. And then Mugsy made me relive it with his detailed description. Please, someone make it not exist.... 

[matblake]

Augie scheduled some quality opponents in their non-conf. schedule. BW and UWP are IMO quality teams from quality conferences.  Now if Augie struggles in the CCIW, then I would say there is something to look at.

Quality conferences I agree with, it is the quality opponents that I am concerned with.  Let's take BW as an example.  3-6 in OAC play in 2005 is certainly nothing to be proud of, especially with wins versus Heidelberg, Wilmington, and Muskingum hardly to be considered powerhouses.   This year the loss to Marietta combined with a narrow escape over Wilmington puts a question into my mind.  All that being said, Augie could go 7-0 in conference and get the auto bid.  I think this weekend is a key game for them.  I still think they will prevail over IWU.

[CardinalAlum]

It should be noted that part of Augie's perceived drop from CCIW dominance can be attributed to significant improvement in the top to bottom strength of the conference.  In the last decade, Augie, Wheaton, IWU, Carthage and Millikin have all won CCIW championships.  North Central came very, very close last year.  So 6 of 8 teams have either won or seriously contended for a CCIW championship in the last decade.  Back in the 80's and early 90's it was all Augustana, much like it is now with Mount Union in the OAC (I don't mean to diminish the competition Mount gets from Capital, JCU, ONU or from BW some years back).

As much as it pains me to agree with Mugsy, I think he has a great point.  In past years all of the CCIW schools would recruit the best kids in the area.  Many of the top players ended up at Augie, IWU, and Millikin.  I don't think that is the case as before.  Wheaton's recruiting base is completely different and I don't even count the occasional local player that does attend Wheaton.   I believe the revival of the NCC, Carthage and Elmhurst programs is a direct result of a little bit of a slide at IWU and Millikin.  I'm still not saying that Augie is down, but the above could also be a bit of a factor in the record of the Augies.

[79jaybird]

Mugsy you mention special teams play.
The first thing we practiced each and every practice was Punt, FG/FB Block, and Kickoff.
My HS Coach said the most important play of the game is Punt.
Special Teams is probably the most improved "unit" of this year's EC team.  The punting of Geoff Steele and kicking of Tyler Lomnicki has been superb.  
They did give up a kickoff return for a TD vs. Olivet which is their only blemish,  however as a unit this group has been great.
IMO, EC beat Chicago due to the special teams and field position battle.  I still think EC/Car  game boils down to a key special teams play or turnover.

[matblake]

I still think EC/Car  game boils down to a key special teams play or turnover.

That would be a great game, unless the turnover was in the first quarter for a field goal and no further points were scored. 3-0=not very exciting for the casual observer.

[Mugsy]

Mugsy
I believe Chupp did not play that game (MU) because of a broken finger?  Which caused a huge drop-off in the passing game and I believe Wheaton stated in the pregame interview they were going to run the ball more.  Was it Frank Andrews, who started that game?  Frank Andrews was not the greatest passer as a quarterback and he took some ribbing on this site for it.  Yet he was a hard-nosed player who had one of the best hits from a Wheaton player I have seen.  He was athletic enough to have played many other positions - running back L-backer, D-back etc.  I just wanted to say that because he was a good athlete who always gave his all and in my opinion could have made a greater contribution playing another position.

Go Thunder,

2002 was before Chupp's time.  The starting QB was Chad Bradley in the 2002 Wheaton/MUC game.  I believe you are thinking of the 2004 game.

Incidently... you want to talk about tough, hard-nosed QB's.  Try Ernie Fry from Wheaton in 1986.  In 1985 he was a CCIW 1st Team All-Conference MLB at 6'2" 220lbs.  That was Keith Bishop's senior year, so obviously he wasn't going to start at QB given all the records Keith shattered that year. 

In 1986, Ernie switched over to the offensive side of the ball and ended up as CCIW 1st Team All-Conference QB.  I can't tell how many times some poor little DB would expect the QB to just run out of bounds and Ernie would drop the boom on him and flat out run him over.

[Comet 14]

Matblake- I would take a 3-0 win right now. A win is a win.

[raiderguy]

hs coach

Karma for you for the Clark Kent report on the game and Mugsy too.  Good stuff.

The most amazing stat of that 99 game to me is still the TOP....less than 12 minutes VS 48+.

[raiderguy]

Happy 200 BD Redman.

Sorry HS I am violation of the 24 hour karma rule so I'll catch you on the flip side.

[devildog29]

As much as it pains me to agree with Mugsy, I think he has a great point.  In past years all of the CCIW schools would recruit the best kids in the area.  Many of the top players ended up at Augie, IWU, and Millikin.  I don't think that is the case as before.  Wheaton's recruiting base is completely different and I don't even count the occasional local player that does attend Wheaton.   I believe the revival of the NCC, Carthage and Elmhurst programs is a direct result of a little bit of a slide at IWU and Millikin.  I'm still not saying that Augie is down, but the above could also be a bit of a factor in the record of the Augies.

This is really which came first, the chicken or the egg?  I think the same argument can be made that as Elmhurst, NCC, and Carthage improved their facilities, got some tremendous coaching hires, and improved their teams, it now became more competitive for IWU/Augie/Millikin to land the same recruits they landed in the past, prior to 2000 or so.  It's all a bit of snowball now, but I don't think it's necessarily the old top half's slide led to the others' success.  Rather, I think it's more of the others' success led to the old top half's slide.

[CardinalAlum]

This is really which came first, the chicken or the egg?  I think the same argument can be made that as Elmhurst, NCC, and Carthage improved their facilities, got some tremendous coaching hires, and improved their teams, it now became more competitive for IWU/Augie/Millikin to land the same recruits they landed in the past, prior to 2000 or so.  It's all a bit of snowball now, but I don't think it's necessarily the old top half's slide led to the others' success.  Rather, I think it's more of the others' success led to the old top half's slide.

I think we're saying the same thing aren't we?