FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Comet 14]

lets not forget that whatever the outcome of this game both teams will still be in contention for a conference title, although they will have an uphill battle. I don't see anyone going undefeated in conference play.

[TitanBacker]

I agree Jaybird. If anything the conditions are easier at night. In my opinion it is easier to see under the lights than in the middle of the afternoon, as long as the field is properly lit. This should be a great game

I can't say i agree with this logic of seeing easier under the lights.  As a former player tha played both under the lights and in daytime in high school, college and at Carthage (both night and day).  It's much easier to see in the day time.  Lights cast different shadows that you aren't used to.  Also, as balls are thrown or kicked, there is a possibility of "losing them in the lights".  In the middle of the afternoon, the only way the sun would get in the way would be if the field was oriented East-West.  IWU is the only field in the conference (and in college) that is still oriented this way.  

Yet, assuming both coaches are intelligent (and I believe Rcks and Journell are) the players will be practicing at least twice this week under night conditions to see the differences presented in day and night games.  Thus, I dont' think the night game will be an issue.  Yet, the home field advantage of Carthage may pay off.  Depending on the strength of carthages defense, I say Carthage wins 17-13.

[redman04]

I always thought home night games were a hugh advantage.  I don't think we lost one while I was there as a player.  It would be interesting if someone actually hade carthage's record at home at night.  Does anyone  

Reidy maybe you can recall... Was the first home night game  the one against Elmhurst which we won 41-0?? Or did we have one before that?  The reason I remember that Elmhurst game is that it was the first shut out for us in a long long time and they left the score board on all night! I remember seeing it still on at 3:00 am on the way back in from the bar!  

[usee]

I still don't buy the comments about Elmhurst not being able to handle the Kenosha night sky, or the night game, or not being able to handle Carthage.  People, these are college conditioned football players.  I am sure almost all of the players (on both sides) have played HS night games, in all conditions.
I agree it is much more difficult to win a ROAD game, that's obvious in every sport and at every level.
Both Carthage and Elmhurst have had to play somewhat decent (not great)  non-conference opponents. IMO, there is nothing that shows either team is "poor" in a certain area.  This is going to be a grudge battle between 2 quality teams. 
Elmhurst lost their starting QB in game one... what did the Jays do?  Sit and cry about it and drop their next few games??  No, they regrouped, rallied around each other to beat a (IMO fairly decent Chicago Team) and then beat Olivet handily on THEIR HOME TURF.
I agree with the stats debate and what both teams have done in recent years, but I don't buy the debate about being able to play in the night sky, etc.  topic.

you don't have to buy it. just because you don't believe it doesn't mean its not true. it has nothing to do with the "night sky". where did you get that idea? playing night games on the road is difficult because it is a routine that is not normal. road games affect the visiting team because their routine isn't normal before a game and that dynamic has different affects on different people from how they focus during the day to the level of adrenaline and concentration. all very subtle but the home team is in effect more focused than the away team. they play with more confidence. there are actually scientific studies done on this and its effects on individuals and teams. very interesting stuff. nonetheless, playing on the road AND at night is in fact a disadvantage for elmhurst.

[TitanBacker]

Isn't playing a night game out of routine for the home team too?  I mean, it backs up their schedule and such, too.  Just a thought

[matblake]

I always thought home night games were a hugh advantage.  I don't think we lost one while I was there as a player.  It would be interesting if someone actually hade carthage's record at home at night.  Does anyone  

I don't know the record, but I think it includes 1 loss.  In 1998 Wheaton defeated Carthage 38 to 15 which was a night game I believe.  I believe that was the game my brother didn't remember his name for the entire second half, but because he didn't tell anybody he continued to play.

[TitanBacker]

I always thought home night games were a hugh advantage.  I don't think we lost one while I was there as a player.  It would be interesting if someone actually hade carthage's record at home at night.  Does anyone  

I don't know the record, but I think it includes 1 loss.  In 1998 Wheaton defeated Carthage 38 to 15 which was a night game I believe.  I believe that was the game my brother didn't remember his name for the entire second half, but because he didn't tell anybody he continued to play.

Add another loss in 2001 when IWU beat Carthage 32-0 at Art Keller at NIGHT.  I remember getting back to Blo-No at about 4 am that morning.  Fun times 

[diehardfan]

Since we're talking about playing Carthage Home vs Away, I couldn't resist pulling up some stats. Since 1999:

At Wheaton
Wheaton 30, Carthage 14
Wheaton 29, Carthage 24
Wheaton 36, Carthage 6
Wheaton 30, Carthage 14

wheaton avg pts: 31
carthage avg pts: 15

At Carthage
Wheaton 41, Carthage 14
Wheaton 63, Carthage 14
Carthage 39 Wheaton 21

Wheaton avg pts: 42
Carthage avg pts: 18

Add matblake's 1998 game... and well, aside from one slip up, we've pretty much owned Carthage... but especially at their place. Carthage has never struck me as a difficult place to play. Perhaps because I was at the 63-14 pasting. I still remember driving like 80-90 in the absolutely pouring rain trying to get to that darn game on time. (One of those moments that you look back on as a mature reasonable adult and think... how did I ever make it out of my college years! ) I think the pics from that game are all dark, so it might have been a night game... but that might have just been because of the rain too? 

[matblake]

IMO Millikin is the toughest place to play for the reason that I have stated before.........mind numbing ride!  Maybe since I never played I should say the toughest place to cheer 

[redman04]

Since we're talking about playing Carthage Home vs Away, I couldn't resist pulling up some stats. Since 1999:

At Wheaton
Wheaton 30, Carthage 14
Wheaton 29, Carthage 24
Wheaton 36, Carthage 6
Wheaton 30, Carthage 14

wheaton avg pts: 31
carthage avg pts: 15

At Carthage
Wheaton 41, Carthage 14
Wheaton 63, Carthage 14
Carthage 39 Wheaton 21

Wheaton avg pts: 42
Carthage avg pts: 18

Add matblake's 1998 game... and well, aside from one slip up, we've pretty much owned Carthage... but especially at their place. Carthage has never struck me as a difficult place to play. Perhaps because I was at the 63-14 pasting. I still remember driving like 80-90 in the absolutely pouring rain trying to get to that darn game on time. (One of those moments that you look back on as a mature reasonable adult and think... how did I ever make it out of my college years! ) I think the pics from that game are all dark, so it might have been a night game... but that might have just been because of the rain too? 

DHF
Good stats, but I was wondering overall, since lights at Carthage.  I know there are a few losses, considering Carthage had 1 winning season 2000-2003.  I didn't know what their record was since they only play 2 or 3 night games a year

Matt blake I played in that game in 98 and I don't remember it being a night game.  That doesn't mean it wasn't, just a bad memory on my part (several concussions and lots and lots of booze) 

[matblake]

I wasn't at that game as I was living overseas at the time, but I believe I remember my brother laughing because before the game they had fireworks and then Wheaton won.  "What a waste," were his exact words.

[Comet 14]

In my post I stated well lit stadium.If the stadium is lit properly ther is no problem with Shadows. I have never been to Carthage but I am going to assume they have a well lit stadium. The field is lit along the sidelines so you don't have to look into the lights to see the ball for the same reason fields are placed so you don't have to look into the sun.

[Comet 14]

I also believr Elmhurst's stadium is positioned east to west.

[TitanBacker]

In my post I stated well lit stadium.If the stadium is lit properly ther is no problem with Shadows. I have never been to Carthage but I am going to assume they have a well lit stadium. The field is lit along the sidelines so you don't have to look into the lights to see the ball for the same reason fields are placed so you don't have to look into the sun.

Well lit or not, assuming the stadium has 4 posts with stadium lights (as it should) shadows will be created around a player.  In effect, the lights will create 4 different shadows.  It happens and it can be confusing if you're not used to lights.  Will it affect the outcome of the game, i highly doubt it.

And even if it's lit from the sidelines, you still have a chance of looking into the light and losing the ball.  For example, the offense is set on the left hash at their own 20 yard line anf a receiver is lined up near the right hash.  He runs a fly pattern and the QB launches the ball deep.  Most likely the receivers eyes will follow through the light post nearest the left hash of the team's 25 or 30 yard line.  Whether or not it affects him is up to the player.

No offense comet14, but i've played in those situations and the lights can and sometimes do get in the way.

I also believr Elmhurst's stadium is positioned east to west.

Jaybird or other Elmhursters, is this true?  I could have sworn it was pretyt much north-south.

[Mugsy]

I don't know the record, but I think it includes 1 loss.  In 1998 Wheaton defeated Carthage 38 to 15 which was a night game I believe.  I believe that was the game my brother didn't remember his name for the entire second half, but because he didn't tell anybody he continued to play.

I had a similar experience my senior year... kinda scary in hindsight.  Coach Swider installed a completely different defensive scheme for Carroll in 1988 - just for that week only.  Somewhere in the first quarter I lost all recognition of the new scheme.  I recognized the calls and terms, but had no idea what to do, where to line-up etc...  Ron Miller, the DB on my side, told me what I was supposed to do and where to line up for the next 3 quarters.  We beat Carroll, thus spoiling their dream season of winning the CCIW and allowed Augie to win the conference instead.