FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[cardinaldad]

Cardinal dad,

You are obviously new to North Central...if you think the program is going down.

washdupcard,
     I've been around long enough to see the changes and hear the discontent. Things have changed over the past three years.  All you have to do is hear the parents talk in the stands.  MANY of them are very discontent.  From what I hear them saying  and from what many current players are saying... its is very evident that MANY of the players are not happy.  I've even overheard some of the coaches expressing displeasure with the way some things are being handled.  This is not good when you have a successful program.
 
     Starters are quiting.  Potential starters are not returning. Upperclassmen are quiting. Underclassmen are wondering what the heck is going on with the way some of the upperclassmen are being treated. After arriving, many are disappointed with how the program actually is compared to how they were led to believe it was.  Even former players' parents are asking what the heck is going on when they hear what is happening.

     It appears as if a couple of the coaches think they have become bigger than the TEAM...the PROGRAM...They preach the philosophy, but don't live by it.  That might work in high school, in a captive audience, but, young college men are not that naïve.   Alot is going on to tear the TEAM apart.  Things aren't as they were a year or two ago.  The family is not happy!

     This is hurting the immediate team and the future of the team via recruiting.  If former players and parents don't support the program and talk it up.....no one will.

     Just sit in the stands and listen with an open ear.  Believe me, I hope it doesn't happen, but it has already started.

     

[Mr. Ypsi]

augiedogie,

I participate in OAC pickems, and I agree with you.  I'm taking Wheaton on the straight up CCIW pickems, but Augie on the OAC.

I don't like the clock changes.  Except for televised (therefore mainly top-tier d1A) games, it is a solution in search of a problem.  Those games sometimes run forever BECAUSE of commercial timeouts, not because of the fball game!

[CardinalAlum]

Boy, people sure jump off the boat quick around Cardinal camp.  That's ok, we don't need the naysayers!  Talk about getting spoiled by success!  Cardinaldad, I've been around the program for over 20 years now.  Other than my time there when we had a decent run and won a few games, I have never seen the program in better shape!   In this conference, you are not going to win every year with programs like Wheaton, Augie, Carthage and IWU.  Elmhurst is coming on strong and Millikin is always tough.  Parents always think they know best, but they don't always have the whole story.  You would hope coaches are with the program, but that isn't always the case.  Hopefully they air their gripes or get out!

[Mugsy]

Cardinal dad,

You are obviously new to North Central...if you think the program is going down.

washdupcard,
     I've been around long enough to see the changes and hear the discontent. Things have changed over the past three years.  All you have to do is hear the parents talk in the stands.  MANY of them are very discontent.  From what I hear them saying  and from what many current players are saying... its is very evident that MANY of the players are not happy.  I've even overheard some of the coaches expressing displeasure with the way some things are being handled.  This is not good when you have a successful program.
 
     Starters are quiting.  Potential starters are not returning. Upperclassmen are quiting. Underclassmen are wondering what the heck is going on with the way some of the upperclassmen are being treated. After arriving, many are disappointed with how the program actually is compared to how they were led to believe it was.  Even former players' parents are asking what the heck is going on when they hear what is happening.

     It appears as if a couple of the coaches think they have become bigger than the TEAM...the PROGRAM...They preach the philosophy, but don't live by it.  That might work in high school, in a captive audience, but, young college men are not that naïve.   Alot is going on to tear the TEAM apart.  Things aren't as they were a year or two ago.  The family is not happy!

     This is hurting the immediate team and the future of the team via recruiting.  If former players and parents don't support the program and talk it up.....no one will.

     Just sit in the stands and listen with an open ear.  Believe me, I hope it doesn't happen, but it has already started.

Even though I'm a Wheaton football alum and therefore can not wish anything positive on North Central football (unless they are in the playoffs and I root for all CCIW teams) , for the sake of the players who put an incredible amount of time and effort into become the best players they can, I hope this isn't true.

[Tailgater]

I asked a question last night (and Titanbacker expressed interst in the same question this morning):  seemingly the key stat in the Carthage vs. IWU game was Carthage winning the turnover battle, 4-0.  For someone who was there (or, perhaps, even listening if the announcers seemed clear on the distinction) were these more giveaways (in which case IWU's sloppiness is hopefully correctable) or takeaways (which speaks well of the Carthage defense, but where were they the first 50 minutes)?

OK memory refreshed. The on-side kick recovery wasn't one of the turnovers recorded.(by the way how is this turnover recorded?)  First IWU fumble was a costly misque between QB and center exchange. Titans were inside the Carthage 10 late in the 1st qtr looking to extend the lead to 14-0 then fumbled the snap. The second fumble was a take away as a Carthage defender stripped the ball out of the running backs hands. The third fumble was a take away as discribed earlier by a good defensive play to disrupt the handoff. The interception was a forced throw by the QB who had time, but released it early. It appeared a receiver might of crossed up the QB as the ball was thrown or overthrown. The Carthage defender was in left center field when he made the pic. So I guess 50/50 on take aways/give aways

[Mr. Ypsi]

Tailgater,

Thanks for the insights.  I suspected it might be 2-2, which doesn't add very much info on either Carthage or IWU!

[cardinaldad]

Even though I'm a Wheaton football alum and therefore can not wish anything positive on North Central football (unless they are in the playoffs and I root for all CCIW teams) , for the sake of the players who put an incredible amount of time and effort into become the best players they can, I hope this isn't true.

Mugsy,
     My point exactly. With the incredible amount of time and effort these young men are putting in, coupled with the talent that they have, it is a shame that they feel the way they do. Something is wrong. I concur about CCIW teams and the playoffs.

[cardinaldad]

Boy, people sure jump off the boat quick around Cardinal camp.  That's ok, we don't need the naysayers!  Talk about getting spoiled by success!  Cardinaldad, I've been around the program for over 20 years now.  Othere than my time there when we had a decent run and won a few games, I have never seen the program in better shape!   In this conference, you are not going to win every year with programs like Wheaton, Augie, Carthage and IWU.  Elmhurst is coming on strong and Millikin is always tough.  Parents always think they know best, but they don't always have the whole story.  You would hope coaches are with the program, but that isn't always the case.  Hopefully they air their gripes or get out!

CardinalAlum,

     Please, I am not a naysayer and I'm not jumping off the boat. I would love nothing more than to see the Cards win a conference or national title. My point is that this is occuring while successful. The team could be 5-0 and the things that are happening would be happening. Losing is not causing this. Winning is. It will lead to the demise if not corrected.
     I'm not just hearing parents voice their opinions. I am hearing them quote their sons and hearing things from the horses' mouths.
     I agree that if any coaches have differences, that they should be aired.

[Titan Q]

I asked a question last night (and Titanbacker expressed interst in the same question this morning):  seemingly the key stat in the Carthage vs. IWU game was Carthage winning the turnover battle, 4-0.  For someone who was there (or, perhaps, even listening if the announcers seemed clear on the distinction) were these more giveaways (in which case IWU's sloppiness is hopefully correctable) or takeaways (which speaks well of the Carthage defense, but where were they the first 50 minutes)?

OK memory refreshed. The on-side kick recovery wasn't one of the turnovers recorded.(by the way how is this turnover recorded?)  First IWU fumble was a costly misque between QB and center exchange. Titans were inside the Carthage 10 late in the 1st qtr looking to extend the lead to 14-0 then fumbled the snap. The second fumble was a take away as a Carthage defender stripped the ball out of the running backs hands. The third fumble was a take away as discribed earlier by a good defensive play to disrupt the handoff. The interception was a forced throw by the QB who had time, but released it early. It appeared a receiver might of crossed up the QB as the ball was thrown or overthrown. The Carthage defender was in left center field when he made the pic. So I guess 50/50 on take aways/give aways

The two biggies were obviously the lost on-side kick and the late fumble giving Carthage the ball on the 12.  On the on-side kick, IWU had even called timeout before the play to talk things over with the "hands team."  The kick went right into the hands of IWU's best receiver - and one of the best WR's in the CCIW - sophomore Martin Ceisel.  He just simply dropped it.  The fumble was on the exchange between QB Panno and RB Dunlop, giving the Red Men the ball at IWU's 12.

As an IWU fan, it was one of the most gut-wrenching losses I can remember in any sport.   With 9:43 left and IWU up 28-9 everyone felt happy for the team for knocking off a good Carthage squad.  At 1-1 there was reason to look forward to next week's game and maybe the possibility of the Titans turning this bad football stretch around.  Not necessarily contending for the 2006 title, but maybe having a nice conference showing.  My friends and I almost left the stadium after that last Titan touchdown to carry on with Homecoming festivities.  I wish we would have.

For what it is worth, I think sophomore Nick Panno (Wheaton-Warrenville South) has a chance to be a good CCIW quarterback.  He was a high school track star and is very quick on the field, but he also has a good arm.  Junior RB Marcus Dunlop is very good and soph. WR Ceisel is outstanding.  The Titans also have some very talented defensive players.  IWU has to find more size on both lines though -- seems like this is where they are having big-time trouble recruiting (impact linemen).  The skill guys have been there during this bad stretch (E. White, T. Kudyba, Dunlop, etc).

[Mugsy]

Boy, people sure jump off the boat quick around Cardinal camp.  That's ok, we don't need the naysayers!  Talk about getting spoiled by success!  Cardinaldad, I've been around the program for over 20 years now.  Othere than my time there when we had a decent run and won a few games, I have never seen the program in better shape!   In this conference, you are not going to win every year with programs like Wheaton, Augie, Carthage and IWU.  Elmhurst is coming on strong and Millikin is always tough.  Parents always think they know best, but they don't always have the whole story.  You would hope coaches are with the program, but that isn't always the case.  Hopefully they air their gripes or get out!

CardinalAlum,

     Please, I am not a naysayer and I'm not jumping off the boat. I would love nothing more than to see the Cards win a conference or national title. My point is that this is occuring while successful. The team could be 5-0 and the things that are happening would be happening. Losing is not causing this. Winning is. It will lead to the demise if not corrected.
     I'm not just hearing parents voice their opinions. I am hearing them quote their sons and hearing things from the horses' mouths.
     I agree that if any coaches have differences, that they should be aired.

I'd have to disagree with saying NCC could be 5-0 at this point.  While it was all NCC in the first half, Wheaton clearly won the game.  Saying NCC could be 5-0 at this point is ridiculous.  There are 20+ other schools in D3 that could make a similar claim, but they aren't for whatever reason.  You can't change the final scores and all the coulda/woulda/shoulda won't change a thing. 

Quite honestly that is disrespectful to Wheaton (and CUW for that matter).  Every other NCC alum who has posted has recognized this and offered congrats to Wheaton on the win, just as I and most other Wheaton fans would have to NCC had the game gone the other way.

I don't know what is going on at NCC behind the scenes.  I posted that I hope what you are saying isn't true, but I have no way of know.  Other NCC posters obviously disagree with your assessment...

[CardinalAlum]

I'd have to disagree with saying NCC could be 5-0 at this point.  While it was all NCC in the first half, Wheaton clearly won the game.  Saying NCC could be 5-0 at this point is ridiculous.  There are 20+ other schools in D3 that could make a similar claim, but they aren't for whatever reason.  You can't change the final scores and all the coulda/woulda/shoulda won't change a thing. 

Mugsy,

Maybe I am misreading his post but I think he was saying that IF the Cards were 5-0, these supposed problems would still have arisen.   I don't think that he was saying they should be 5-0. 

[usee]

I'd have to disagree with saying NCC could be 5-0 at this point.  While it was all NCC in the first half, Wheaton clearly won the game.  Saying NCC could be 5-0 at this point is ridiculous.  There are 20+ other schools in D3 that could make a similar claim, but they aren't for whatever reason.  You can't change the final scores and all the coulda/woulda/shoulda won't change a thing. 

Mugsy,

Maybe I am misreading his post but I think he was saying that IF the Cards were 5-0, these supposed problems would still have arisen.   I don't think that he was saying they should be 5-0. 

Thats how i read it Cardalum.

[devildog29]

CardinalDad, for what it's worth, pretty much every team has some amount of attrition every year.  All 8 teams in the conference I am sure will lose some players who feel the program is not run how they were lead to believe.  Such is life in college football where everyone comes in as a star in HS and now has to compete in college.

That being said, I know nothing whatsoever about the situation at NCC and if it is any better or worse than any other school.  I'm just saying it's not a surprise to lose some players who somehow become "disillusioned" regardless of whether the team is winning or losing.

[CardinalAlum]

CardinalDad, for what it's worth, pretty much every team has some amount of attrition every year.  All 8 teams in the conference I am sure will lose some players who feel the program is not run how they were lead to believe.  Such is life in college football where everyone comes in as a star in HS and now has to compete in college.

That being said, I know nothing whatsoever about the situation at NCC and if it is any better or worse than any other school.  I'm just saying it's not a surprise to lose some players who somehow become "disillusioned" regardless of whether the team is winning or losing.

DD,

Very well said!  + karma to you!

[cardinaldad]

Coach Swider gave credit to the offensive and defensive coordinators for their adjustments at the half and to the team for coming out and playing inspired ball.

Great job by the Wheaton TEAM. It was a TEAM effort. Alot of the credit should go to the coaches. Wheaton was a tatally different TEAM in the 2nd half.

Mugsy,
     Easy....... I gave Wheaton credit. See.........
     You totally took what said out of context. I didn't say that the Cards should be 5-0. I merely said that hypothetically, to make a point, that things would be happening in the Cardinal camp even IF the Cards were 5-0. No disrespect to the Thunder, at all.