FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Augie6]

Interesting thing about Elmhurst in 1986 was that despite a very poor record, they tied us and beat Millikin, which was Millikin's only other loss besides us.  As for the 0-0 tie, both defenses played a great game and the offenses were stuck in neutral.  We had a very experienced backfield, but our offensive line had several new players and it took some time for them to gel.  From the middle of the season on, our offense played as well as any during our championship run.  

[79jaybird]

That 0-0 tie was the only blemish on Augie's resume during their National Championship runs.  That tie ended Augie's record for most consecutive CCIW wins.

[CardinalAlum]

"Those were two great defenses. They were both extremely physical and strong."
CardinalAlum-- Then why did Elmhurst finish 2-6-1 (2-5-1 CCIW) that year?
I am just asking because this was before my time at EC.  I know Elmhurst as a team was great from 1977-1987 before falling off the map from 87-1997.

JB,

You got me there! I don't have an answer.  I remember hearing that score on the bus back from Carroll I believe.  That Elmhurst defense was better than the record showed.

[79jaybird]

Haha!  I finally stumped CardinalAlum! 
I am a Chess Player so I guess I got you "in check".   
Sometimes going back in history some things just don't have an explanation.  For example, how can we knock off Wheaton 22-16 that was ranked real high, and end their post season hopes, yet struggle through a very LONG season?

[Augie6]

Jaybird,

Appreciate the clarification and I do agree that Elmhurst is greatly improved from where they were a few seasons ago.  In fact, I was at the game a couple of years ago where they almost got that elusive win over Augie until completely falling apart in the 2nd half.  However, I believe there is a clear distinction right now between Augie, Wheaton and NCC and the rest of the league.  Carthage has been close, but has fallen back from their good season a couple of years ago and falls within the second tier with Elmhurst, Millikin and IWU.  

[79jaybird]

Augie6-- You had to bring up that second half collapse!! 
That was the game we shoudla, coulda, woulda, and (for some reason) didn't get the job done.
I agree that right now Augie/Wheaton  and coming up NC  are the top 3 dogs leading the dog sled right now.  On that note, I am curious to see how North Central responds in 2007 after Kniss graduates. Will they continue to be status quo  or will they "tail off" like Carthage did after their CCIW Title and playoff run?  My guess is, the Cardinals will still be good, but not "great" like they are with Kniss at the helm.
The thing about that Augie/Elmhurst game that you are talking about.  One thing that I found interesting was Augie did not attempt 1 pass the entire game!  Whether they were up by 14 or down by 14, The Vikings ran every single down!

[CardinalAlum]

I think Mr. Ypsi touched on a very interesting subject earlier today when he asked JB if he felt the success of the EC program this year was due to a good senior class of 18 players.  NCC took some major hits to graduation this year and is having another good year.  I know it helps returning the best QB in the conference, but when you factor in the losses or Radtke, Smith, Spencer and Holden, plus a couple of other contributors, they have done a good job plugging guys like Wenger, both Sulos, McIntosh and others in to these spots and having success with them.  This is what programs must do to succeed.  Reload!

[Augie6]

CardAlum,

I actually thought some of the teams in our conference during the 80's (Wheaton in 84 and 85, Millikin in 84, 85 and 86, and Elmhurst in 83) would have done very well in the playoffs based on comparing them to some of the teams we played.  My comments about the QB's are really more a compliment to Keith Bishop than taking away anything from Weber, Rooney or Moews.  I will be the first to tell you that we had some great defensive teams during that era, and Bishop was able to produce against us.  The others really didn't.  Not taking away from anything they did in the careers, just that they didn't step up against us the way Bishop did.

[79jaybird]

CardinalAlum--Agreed. Wow, we agree again, it's Halloween, and I stumped you.  Whoa!  
On that note, Happy Halloween to all of you.
The consistently good programs, (Augie/Wheaton/Mt. Union/ etc.) might graduate 10-20 Seniors a year, but they replenish the departing talent with incoming equal to and/or better talent  thus never really missing a step.  Recently, Wheaton has done a great job with this.

[CardinalAlum]

Obviously, next year's loss of Kniss will be the biggest loss the program has had, BUT NCC is fairly young in terms of guys playing right now on both sides of the ball.  Success on the field does nothing but help recruiting.  Preliminary plans are in the works for a new rec center which will put the NCC facilities up against anyone in D-3.  

[79jaybird]

Let's face it, when you win people take notice and are willing to invest their time and their dinero  towards the schools/programs.
When you lose- well, we all know how the world reacts when you lose.
CardinalAlum-- Glad to hear that the NC facilities will be upgraded.
IMO, I personally would like to see a Football ONLY Stadium built at Elmhurst.  I would like to see an "arena" setting or at least some type of enclosure (like IWU) where you feel like you are at a "big event".

[CardinalAlum]

Augie6,

I stood and talked a little bit with some of your teammates this past Saturday.  Their frustration with the current Augie staff and team was evident.  Is this the general feeling of the alumni?

[Augie6]

I will also be interested to see how NCC responds next year to the loss of Kniss.  I thought that they would drop off significantly this year with the loss of several great players from last year.  Early in the year, that looked like the case, but they have certainly turned things around and are playing at a very high level.  How they perform next year will be a key indicator to me in saying that NCC has arrived as a program to be reckoned with each year.  Who knows, based on the two games I've seen Augie play this year, it could still be the Big 2 with Wheaton and NCC replacing Augie.  The Augie faithful hope that's not the case.  

[Mr. Ypsi]

There was a discussion earlier of the top qb's of the last 25 years.  I wonder if anyone here has been around long enough (or is conversant enough with CCIW history) to judge whether or not Ken Anderson (Augie, 1967-70) was THE best qb ever in the conference?

I saw him against IWU his first three years - I knew he was a very good qb, but was not unduly impressed.   There are 3 main possibilities: A) he was distinctly sub-par against IWU (we WERE usually better than Augie in that era); B) I was a very poor judge of talent back then; or C) he was a late bloomer (he won the Art Keller [I assume that is offensive POY?] in 1970, after I graduated, despite Augie being 3-5).

Since he was drafted out of d3 by the NFL, was a starter by his second year, and was NFL MVP in 1981, I suppose A or C are possible, but I'll admit that B seems more likely!

Steve Laub (IWU, 1963-66) was the Art Keller winner in 1966, and got a long, hard look by the Cowboys, but didn't stick.  '66 was my freshman year, and I STILL remember one sequence Laub had.  First down, sacked.  2nd and 18 (yardages are memory guesstimates, but you get the idea!), sacked.  3rd and 27, sacked.  4th and 34, TOUCHDOWN!  He was also pg on the bball team - greatest competitor I think I've ever seen live.

Any rival candidates for ALL-TIME best qb?

[Augie6]

CardAlum,

I was at the game but left at the start of the 4th quarter (I couldn't take it anymore), so I'm sorry we didn't get a chance to meet.  There was a lot of frustration watching the game last weekend because we felt the coaching staff called a very poor game and didn't make any adjustments to counter what NCC was doing.  This is not the first time we have felt this way watching an Augie game during Coach Barnes era.  Probably the biggest frustration over the past several seasons has been Augie's inability to win the big games when it counts.  Last year took some of that sting away, but last weekend brought all of it back.  The two games that most of have been to this season were two of the worst games we have ever seen an Augie team play.  

That being said, I would say that there is some frustration from the Alumni, but I don't think you can put everything on the coaching staff.  Of the players from my era, it's probably fair to say that our expectations are pretty high and maybe a little unrealistic.  When you look at Coach Barnes' record and accomplishments during his time at Augie, 90% of the DIII programs in the country would love to have that type of program.  Sometimes it's hard for us to keep that in perspective.  I do know that Coach Barnes would love nothing more than to bring the program back to competing for national championships every year.  For whatever reason, he's not able to recruit the level of talent needed to get this done.