FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Mugsy]

Jaybird,

In terms of being honest, a case can be made that there is more parity within the conference.  However, to say that there are 6 teams that have a  legitimate shot to win the CCIW is stretching it, IMO.  I'm assuming the 6 teams you are referring to are Augie, Wheaton, NCC, Elmhurst, Carthage and Millikin.  If you look at the CCIW records of these 6 teams since 2003, you can make a case for the first three, but it becomes much tougher for the second three.   CCIW records 2003 through 2006 are:

Augie                    22-4
Wheaton              21-5
NCC                      18-8
Carthage              14-12
Millikin                   11-15
Elmhurst                 9-17
IWU                        9-17
NPU                        0-26

Carthage had a great year in 2004, which helped out their overall record, but have fallen somewhat since then.  I don't see how you can make any case for Elmhurst, Millikin, IWU or North Park.  Yes, there are teams that have improved (NCC, Carthage, Elmhurst) while IWU and Millikin have gone backwards.  However, I don't think there is anything that supports the notion that there are six teams with legitimate shots to win the CCIW.  Maybe it will happen in the future, but it's not there yet. 

Strong argument when you lay it out the way you did.  Nice post.

[Mugsy]

Someone really needs to pull that stick out of TAA's rear end   I say Mugsy does it  

I'm not pulling anything out of anyone's rear end.   

Ok... one more before I sign off.  "Gee Doc, ya got the whole fist in there?  Moon river..."

[Gregory Sager]

I'm sure glad you are so realistic

I do my best. The people in this room know their CCIW football; so even if I was the type to wear rose-colored glasses, what good would it do me to espouse an upbeat view of NPU's gridiron history?

I was afraid I might be offending you (or other NPU supporters) with that comparison.

Nah. I can't speak for Lakeshore or any other NPU supporters, but as far as yours truly is concerned it's awfully hard to offend me with regard to my alma mater's football team. Anyone who has attended NPU and paid even the slightest attention to the school's sports teams knows just how miserably wretched the football program has been. You don't need to have my grasp of historical perspective to know it.

Believe me, there are a tremendous number of things about North Park University in which I take great pride, things regarding which I'd take offense if an outsider insulted them. The football program, however ... that's been a long-standing joke on campus for ages, and there's no point in getting angry if outsiders are laughing at that joke as well.

But I see reason to believe that the bottom of the CCIW may move up (hopefully not at the expense of IWU!), while I see no reason to believe that Heidi or Hiram will EVER move up.  (And that seems to be the situation at Oberlin, Wilmington, Muskingum, etc.)  NPU seems to finally be putting the resources into having a team that can compete in the CCIW - I've seen nothing on the boards to indicate that the bottom-dwellers of the NCAC or OAC are planning the same.

I can't speak to either Heidelberg or Hiram. I don't follow their conferences in football, and all I know about the erstwhile Student Princes and the Terriers in terms of their gridiron legacies is what the record book indicates.

But you may very well be right about NPU having more hope for the future than those other schools in terms of turning around the football program. Y'know, for years I did nothing but lurk in this room. Why? Because I couldn't for the life of me come up with any good reason why a North Park supporter would ever have anything to say in here. The Vikings had been the conference doormat for eons; they were continuing to be the conference doormat; and it looked as though they'd always be the conference doormat well into the future. Well, they're still the doormat; this year's NPU team is terrible. But, yeah, the serious upgrade in facilities and the hiring of a head coach in Scott Pethtel who genuinely seems as though he has a chance to be, as I've said before, "the Bill Snyder of Division III", is enough to give the school's supporters hope that really wasn't there before. It's the reason why I broke my silence and started posting in this room this year.

[usee]

I'm sure glad you are so realistic

I do my best. The people in this room know their CCIW football; so even if I was the type to wear rose-colored glasses, what good would it do me to espouse an upbeat view of NPU's gridiron history?

I was afraid I might be offending you (or other NPU supporters) with that comparison.

Nah. I can't speak for Lakeshore or any other NPU supporters, but as far as yours truly is concerned it's awfully hard to offend me with regard to my alma mater's football team. Anyone who has attended NPU and paid even the slightest attention to the school's sports teams knows just how miserably wretched the football program has been. You don't need to have my grasp of historical perspective to know it.

Believe me, there are a tremendous number of things about North Park University in which I take great pride, things regarding which I'd take offense if an outsider insulted them. The football program, however ... that's been a long-standing joke on campus for ages, and there's no point in getting angry if outsiders are laughing at that joke as well.

But I see reason to believe that the bottom of the CCIW may move up (hopefully not at the expense of IWU!), while I see no reason to believe that Heidi or Hiram will EVER move up.  (And that seems to be the situation at Oberlin, Wilmington, Muskingum, etc.)  NPU seems to finally be putting the resources into having a team that can compete in the CCIW - I've seen nothing on the boards to indicate that the bottom-dwellers of the NCAC or OAC are planning the same.

I can't speak to either Heidelberg or Hiram. I don't follow their conferences in football, and all I know about the erstwhile Student Princes and the Terriers in terms of their gridiron legacies is what the record book indicates.

But you may very well be right about NPU having more hope for the future than those other schools in terms of turning around the football program. Y'know, for years I did nothing but lurk in this room. Why? Because I couldn't for the life of me come up with any good reason why a North Park supporter would ever have anything to say in here. The Vikings had been the conference doormat for eons; they were continuing to be the conference doormat; and it looked as though they'd always be the conference doormat well into the future. Well, they're still the doormat; this year's NPU team is terrible. But, yeah, the serious upgrade in facilities and the hiring of a head coach in Scott Pethtel who genuinely seems as though he has a chance to be, as I've said before, "the Bill Snyder of Division III", is enough to give the school's supporters hope that really wasn't there before. It's the reason why I broke my silence and started posting in this room this year.

excellent post Gregory

[RedmenFB44]

Someone really needs to pull that stick out of TAA's rear end   I say Mugsy does it  

I'm not pulling anything out of anyone's rear end.   

Ok... one more before I sign off.  "Gee Doc, ya got the whole fist in there?  Moon river..."

HAHA it's too early to be laughing this hard +karma for you 

[Gregory Sager]

excellent post Gregory

Thanks, usee!

[TitanBacker]

The early and primary reason for the perspective that the CCIW is down a bit was the 15-9 non-conference record this year.  Actually that isn't too bad, but it is down from 21-3 last year.

Mugsy and others-

Do you think this record is because of the fact that teams in the CCIW are no longer playing all cupcake teams like years ago?  I'd be interested to see how the non-conference wins and losses stack up to the wins and losses of the teams that CCIW teams played.  In effect, I'd like to know if we're playing cupcakes or legitimate contenders and where the wins and losses come.

RMFB44-

Sorry about CLC's run for the championship being cut short.  How are the other Fox Valley Conference teams doing?  I really think they should have a conference championship game like some college conferences that are that big.

[TitanBacker]

By the way, only 11 pages until we catch up to the OAC board.  Haha

[Mugsy]

By the way, only 11 pages until we catch up to the OAC board.  Haha

We were right about the same number of pages as the OAC last year as well.  Difference has been that their season has tended to go much longer than the CCIW's...

[redman04]

RedmenFB44 OH could I tell you some stories about Corbs that he wouldn't tell.   I think Redmen04 could confirm and tell stories of his own about him too.  Of course Eric would deny or change details to make himself look better.

Oh, im sure that you have pleanty of stories about Corbs. He was a blast as a coach and even more fun when the seniors were done playing their final year    Im sure you knew him as a player and we all know how football players are 

When you look at him today you would never have guessed that he was an option quarterback!  And I think he played his first year at carthage at the age of 33!  Only one older was Jim Reid who started his college career at 45!

[Tailgater]

Well lets really turn this conference AQ thing on its head and go back to a distant thought. If Carthage beats Wheaton & NCC the next two weeks and Augie stumbles in Decator, who does that leave as the AQ from the CCIW? If that should occur you can punt any thought of a pool C bid from a second CCIW team.

If this happens, forget any pool C team from the CCIW.

If this happens, forget any pool C team from the CCIW.    

What a dope!  I thought the last line of Tailgaters post was actually a question, but it was a statement, which I then repeated.

<Pan camera to Leslie Nielson entering the cockpit from the movie Airplane>
"Just thought you should know, we're all counting on you."

<2 minutes later>
"Just thought you should know, we're all counting on you."

belly chuckle!

[ncc58]

Jaybird,

In terms of being honest, a case can be made that there is more parity within the conference.  However, to say that there are 6 teams that have a  legitimate shot to win the CCIW is stretching it, IMO.  I'm assuming the 6 teams you are referring to are Augie, Wheaton, NCC, Elmhurst, Carthage and Millikin.  If you look at the CCIW records of these 6 teams since 2003, you can make a case for the first three, but it becomes much tougher for the second three.   CCIW records 2003 through 2006 are:

Augie                    22-4
Wheaton              21-5
NCC                      18-8
Carthage              14-12
Millikin                   11-15
Elmhurst                 9-17
IWU                        9-17
NPU                        0-26

Carthage had a great year in 2004, which helped out their overall record, but have fallen somewhat since then.  I don't see how you can make any case for Elmhurst, Millikin, IWU or North Park.  Yes, there are teams that have improved (NCC, Carthage, Elmhurst) while IWU and Millikin have gone backwards.  However, I don't think there is anything that supports the notion that there are six teams with legitimate shots to win the CCIW.  Maybe it will happen in the future, but it's not there yet. 

Nicely stated.

[ncc58]

By the way, only 11 pages until we catch up to the OAC board.  Haha

Another run of movie quotes and we'll be there.

[matblake]

Here are the weather reports:

Carthage:  http://www.crh.noaa.gov/forecast/MapClick.php?CityName=Kenosha&state=WI&site=MKX

Augustana: http://www.crh.noaa.gov/forecast/MapClick.php?CityName=Rock+Island&state=IL&site=DVN

Illinois Wesleyan: http://www.crh.noaa.gov/forecast/MapClick.php?CityName=Bloomington&state=IL&site=ILX

Elmhurst: http://www.crh.noaa.gov/forecast/MapClick.php?CityName=Elmhurst&state=IL&site=LOT

[Tailgater]

Wheaton V Carthage:

This is the #1 offense (statistically) vs the #1 Defense. If you break those numbers down a few things stick out as keys to the game:

-carthage is #1 v the pass but #6 v run.
-wheaton has given up the fewest points all year on defense but they are statistically ranked #6
-carthage is #2 in takeaway/giveaway ratio at +8, Wheaton is -2 on the year.

To me the key to the game is wheaton's ability to run the ball v carthage and carthages ability to create turnovers. when this game is over these two factors will tell the story in my view. If wheaton takes care of the ball and runs effectively they will win easily. If carthage creates turnovers and stops the Wheaton run game, it will be a long day for the Thunder.

I could be wrong, but Carthage being #6 against the run is solely do to Augie posting 311 rushing yards on them. Wipe that stat out and they are ranked much better against the run than the numbers tell. I do agree turnovers will be the name of the game and who capitalizes on them will determine the winner.