FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Augie6]

The '98 Cardinal D...was a great group.  I still believe that it was one of the top D's in the last 20 yrs of the CCIW.

washdup,

I know you're just stating a belief here, but that's a pretty strong statement when you consider there have been some very good (and several great) defensive teams in the CCIW over the past 20 (or so) years.  When you look at the defensive stats for the 98 Cards, they look pretty good over the course of a season, particularly for a 3-6 team.  That team gave up a total of 244 yards per game and 18.1 points per game.  However, when you look at the teams they played, there were some very weak programs on the schedule (IBC, U of Chicago in non-conf and North Park (2-7) and Elmhurst (3-6) in conf. )and the defense didn't fare very well vs the upper half of the conference.  Against Millikin, Augie, Wheaton and IWU (the top four teams in the CCIW that year), NCC gave up an average of 31.25 points per game.  Based on these stats and playing/watching CCIW teams over the past 25 years, I think it would be hard to make a case for that defense being in the top 10, let alone one of the best.

Its a lot easier to give up 31 pts per game to the "top" programs when they are getting the ball on the opposing team's 30 yrd line.  Look at the Cards offensive (being used as both a noun and an adjective) stats for the same year. 

I'm not trying to put down NCC's D from 98'.  It was obviously a solid unit that didn't get much support on the offensive side of the ball.  I'm just questioning you're putting them in the category of one of the best in the past 20 years.  That timeframe put them against some very good defenses, including the ones I played on at Augie in the mid-80's.  Bottom line, if it was truly one of the top defenses, it would find ways to stop opposing offenses from scoring, regardless of whose end of the field they are starting at.  

The reason I'm questioning the statement is, over the past couple of years, there have been some comments made on this board that tend to be a little "over the top" when it comes to assessing certain teams/players abilities and their "place in history".  IMO, many of these comments are based on very limited experience and historical perspective of the CCIW and DIII in general.  It sounds like you were a player on the 98' team and I'm not sure if you had much experience watching CCIW teams prior to that.  Besides Augie, there were some very good Millikin, Wheaton and IWU defensive teams in the last 20+ years.  Unless you saw any of those teams play and have regularly watched CCIW teams since your playing days ended, I don't see how you can support your opinion that a defense from a 3-6 team was one of the best defenses to play in the CCIW over the past 20 years.  

[Mugsy]

The '98 Cardinal D...was a great group.  I still believe that it was one of the top D's in the last 20 yrs of the CCIW.

washdup,

I know you're just stating a belief here, but that's a pretty strong statement when you consider there have been some very good (and several great) defensive teams in the CCIW over the past 20 (or so) years.  When you look at the defensive stats for the 98 Cards, they look pretty good over the course of a season, particularly for a 3-6 team.  That team gave up a total of 244 yards per game and 18.1 points per game.  However, when you look at the teams they played, there were some very weak programs on the schedule (IBC, U of Chicago in non-conf and North Park (2-7) and Elmhurst (3-6) in conf. )and the defense didn't fare very well vs the upper half of the conference.  Against Millikin, Augie, Wheaton and IWU (the top four teams in the CCIW that year), NCC gave up an average of 31.25 points per game.  Based on these stats and playing/watching CCIW teams over the past 25 years, I think it would be hard to make a case for that defense being in the top 10, let alone one of the best.

Its a lot easier to give up 31 pts per game to the "top" programs when they are getting the ball on the opposing team's 30 yrd line.  Look at the Cards offensive (being used as both a noun and an adjective) stats for the same year. 

I'm not trying to put down NCC's D from 98'.  It was obviously a solid unit that didn't get much support on the offensive side of the ball.  I'm just questioning you're putting them in the category of one of the best in the past 20 years.  That timeframe put them against some very good defenses, including the ones I played on at Augie in the mid-80's.  Bottom line, if it was truly one of the top defenses, it would find ways to stop opposing offenses from scoring, regardless of whose end of the field they are starting at.  

The reason I'm questioning the statement is, over the past couple of years, there have been some comments made on this board that tend to be a little "over the top" when it comes to assessing certain teams/players abilities and their "place in history".  IMO, many of these comments are based on very limited experience and historical perspective of the CCIW and DIII in general.  It sounds like you were a player on the 98' team and I'm not sure if you had much experience watching CCIW teams prior to that.  Besides Augie, there were some very good Millikin, Wheaton and IWU defensive teams in the last 20+ years.  Unless you saw any of those teams play and have regularly watched CCIW teams since your playing days ended, I don't see how you can support your opinion that a defense from a 3-6 team was one of the best defenses to play in the CCIW over the past 20 years.  

I'd have to agree with Augie6 here... 240+ yards and 18.1 pt per game does not equate to one of the best defenses in the past 20 years by a long shot.  That is a solid defense, but not a great defense.  I don't care how you rationalize how it really was better than the numbers suggest...

[Tailgater]

I'm not credible for analyzing the best defenses in the CCIW over the past 20 years, but I'd like to suggest that the 2004 Carthage defense should at least make the team picture. Certainly not the best, but in contention for a high seating

[Tailgater]

Jaybird,
Lucky dog. Catching a ride to Italy. What a great experience for you and the Elmhurst team. If history proves consistent, teams who have traveled abroad during the spring tend to follow that up with great seasons in the fall. Could this be a year Elmhurst makes some noise in the CCIW?

[Titanwatcher]

I'm not credible for analyzing the best defenses in the CCIW over the past 20 years, but I'd like to suggest that the 2004 Carthage defense should at least make the team picture. Certainly not the best, but in contention for a high seating

Tailgater, do you have any stats on the '04 defense?

[Augie6]

I'm not credible for analyzing the best defenses in the CCIW over the past 20 years, but I'd like to suggest that the 2004 Carthage defense should at least make the team picture. Certainly not the best, but in contention for a high seating

It's hard for me to say where the 2004 Carthage D would rank.  The only game that I saw them in person was against Augie and their defense did very little in that game.  Augie rushed for over 300 yards and had 406 in total offense.  I wasn't able to find full season stats for that squad, other than they gave up 17.9 points per game.  Based on 2006 statistics in DIII, that would rank them around 75th in scoring defense.  Looking at some of their key games that year, they gave up 366 total yards against Wheaton, 349 against Mt. Union and 313 against NCC.  Scoring defense against those teams (including Augie) was 29.5 points per game.  When someone talks about being the best, I tend to look at how they performed against the best teams on their schedule.  Statiscally, you'll get a better idea of how that team performed because it probably won't be skewed by yards/points given up because you have 2nd or 3rd teams players on the field against weaker teams. 

What I do remember about that squad was their ability to generate turnovers and score points off of those.  I would say they rank among the best in that regard, but I'm not sure where they would fall on an overall basis.  I would say top 10%, most definitely, but one of the best (top 5), I would question.   

[Tailgater]

Tailgater, do you have any stats on the '04 defense?

I'll have to do some homework to find some actual stats. I'll get back with that

Augie6:
You're right about many of your comments and you happened to witness the only poorly played game by the Carthage D in 2004 which led to their only CCIW loss. Strangely they had changed up their defensive scheme in that game from previous games. I assume because of Augie's Wing-T. It didn't work very well. In 2005 they pulled out the same scheme determined that it would work and the Carthage D played the best game I saw in 4 years in a 7-0 loss to Augie at Carthage. Carthage held Augie to around 150 yds rushing and the TD came on.....of all things..... a heavily pressured pass to the corner of the endzone. The 2004 D was all about turnovers. I think they may have led the nation in turn over ratio with some crazy +35 margin or something. They were at times a bend but didn't break D. In the North Region Championship game at Mt Union they were tied into the 4th qtr and looked to be going in for the lead when Dante Washington fumbled for only the 2nd time in 700 touches in his carrier. The bulk of Mt Union's yards came on long pass plays to seal the deal late and also earlier scores. I'll see if I can dig up some details.

[Son of Tailgater]

Son of tailgater, is it true that tim "rookie" glidden also works there?? That kid has been around forever!! Ah peg and lous aka Bootleggers!! The good old days. If rookie does work there, ask him if axl is still around!!!

I know rookie is still around, but I am not so sure able axl. If rookie is working tonight I will ask him and get back to you.

[usee]

A few days ago someone forwarded a link to the Fenwick H.S. website to me.  On the frontpage it indicated that QB Brien Rooney has decided to attend Illinois Wesleyan.  The frontpage has since changed, but here is a link to the cached page.

I believe Rooney was the Chicago Catholic League "Offensive Player of the Year."  He was Special Mention all-state on the Chicago Tribune's team.

Brien's father, John (Class of 1984), is IWU's all-time leader in passing yardage (6576) and third all-time in TD's (55).  He won the CCIW's Art Keller Offensive Player of the Year award in 1984.

I've never seen Brien play, but this Brother Rice grad is always happy to see a Catholic Leaguer in the green and white.   I hope he has a great career as a Titan.

another Rooney??!!! this is not good for for opposing teams. John Rooney was one of the best qb's to ever play in the CCIW. I hope his son has more of his mother's genes.

[79jaybird]

Tailgater, Yes I am looking forward to going back to "my roots" (Mom's side is 100% Italian Neopolitan and Calabrais).
"Could this be the year Elmhurst makes some noise?"  Well, I hope so but unlike last year I am not (well as Usee puts it, sipping the Blue Kool-Aid    ) this year.
We need some guys to step up and take control of the team.  Having a healthy Chris Kudyba back will be a great lift to the boys.  I think our defense has some gaps left from our graduated Seniors, but I know we have some Srs/Jrs that have experience and will fill in.  Offensively, I know our QB and WR's are very good.  Our RB and OL  ah, well  we will see. 
I think this is a big year for Elmhurst as I look at it like this:  We can either continue to make strides to join the big guys (Augie/Wheaton) and jump into the "mix", or we can take 2 steps back and stay in the middle of the herd as we have since 1980.  I don't think the latter is going to happen, but that all depends on the Seniors leading by example and continuing what the last few classes have mounted 6-4, 4-6, 6-4, 6-4, etc.  which also relies on underclassmen stepping up and giving 110% etc.
All I know is that each subsequent year gets increasingly more competitive and the mountain gets steeper.  Wish we could start the season tomorrow.
Briefly looking at the Elmhurst 2007 Schedule it is grueling and not easy.  Olivet is going to be very strong (my early pick for the MIAA Title) and 3 long road trips to Augie/Millikin/IWU,  having Wheaton and NC at home helps, but again, nothing is easy.
My goal is 7 wins.  Once we reach 7, get 8 wins, etc.  to build some consistency and put together a solid program.

[Tailgater]

Jaybird:
When the season comes around keep an eye on Kenny Wilcoxen for me. He will be a Freshmen LB (I assume) who comes from Oswego (East). I coached him for several years. Great kid, good size and a real competitor. I was hoping to steer him to Carthage, but you see how my influence works. Also let me Know how Ryan Keeton does over in Italy. He should be a main contributor in your defensive backfield this year as well as returning kicks. Nice to see Oswego kids sprinkled around the CCIW.

[usee]

Tailgater, Yes I am looking forward to going back to "my roots" (Mom's side is 100% Italian Neopolitan and Calabrais).
"Could this be the year Elmhurst makes some noise?"  Well, I hope so but unlike last year I am not (well as Usee puts it, sipping the Blue Kool-Aid    ) this year.
We need some guys to step up and take control of the team.  Having a healthy Chris Kudyba back will be a great lift to the boys.  I think our defense has some gaps left from our graduated Seniors, but I know we have some Srs/Jrs that have experience and will fill in.  Offensively, I know our QB and WR's are very good.  Our RB and OL  ah, well  we will see. 
I think this is a big year for Elmhurst as I look at it like this:  We can either continue to make strides to join the big guys (Augie/Wheaton) and jump into the "mix", or we can take 2 steps back and stay in the middle of the herd as we have since 1980.  I don't think the latter is going to happen, but that all depends on the Seniors leading by example and continuing what the last few classes have mounted 6-4, 4-6, 6-4, 6-4, etc.  which also relies on underclassmen stepping up and giving 110% etc.
All I know is that each subsequent year gets increasingly more competitive and the mountain gets steeper.  Wish we could start the season tomorrow.
Briefly looking at the Elmhurst 2007 Schedule it is grueling and not easy.  Olivet is going to be very strong (my early pick for the MIAA Title) and 3 long road trips to Augie/Millikin/IWU,  having Wheaton and NC at home helps, but again, nothing is easy.
My goal is 7 wins.  Once we reach 7, get 8 wins, etc.  to build some consistency and put together a solid program.

This is a great year for Elmhurst to really measure what kind of progress Journell is making. If indeed he is moving the program forward, then elmhurst may not drop in performance as much as some may suspect after losing so much talent and sr leadership. If the groundwork has been laid, you will see an elmhurst surprise some people and stay near their level of the last few years.

NCC did that this last year. after losing 5 of the 6 best players in the league at their positions they reloaded and finshed behind wheaton for a share of the conference title.  8).

I have seen good things from Journell so I wouldn't be surprised if the jays were able to hang in there with little to no drop off.

[CardinalAlum]

Daily Herald article on Tim Lester from Friday.

http://www.dailyherald.com/localsports/beatwriters.asp?column=oberhelman

[CardinalAlum]

I have been meaning to weigh in on the 98 NCC defense, but haven't had a chance until now.  The 98 defense was an outstanding defense.  That season could have been worse than it was without that D.  It may have been one of the best defenses at NCC, in a long time.  That being said, I played against the Augie, Millikin, and Wheaton defenses of the mid to late 80's.  There is no comparison between the two.  When I look back at it, those teams could shut you down and keep you down, no matter what the offense was doing that day.  They were all big, strong and fast.  There may have been a few top players on a couple of those teams that were "enhanced" for lack of a better word, but there were no regulations or testing for anything in those days.

[formerd3db]

CardinalAlum and NCC colleagues:

What's the "scoop" on Lester leaving Western Michigan University?  I'm surprised.  I thought that after leaving Elmhurst and then St. Joseph's (the latter where he was successful in turning that program around) that he had "found a home" back at WMU where he starred at QB.  I thought he had planned on staying there for quite sometime.  Obviously, although he has roots back in the greater Chicago outlying regions as you all know, I guess I thought he would have wanted to stay at WMU's level.  Just curious, but, of course, a great gain for NCC and DIII.