FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[CardinalAlum]

NCCAlum62- yes, and Elmhurst was at that point just a few years ago when Journell took office.  Building up a winning program is difficult.  More to the point, a consistent, annually strong program is difficult.  Look at Carthage who had that great year a few years ago, but struggled to keep it at that level for the next year(s).  I am curious to see how North Central does this year in the post-Kniss era.  I think the Cards have a great back in Sulo and their lines seem to be strong.  Losing an All-American, and especially at QB is a huge void to half to replace.

I think they're going to have to lean on a running game that they have not had to lean on since Kam arrived on campus, I'm hoping they have done a good job recruiting QB's the last year or so to get a good replacement available. I mean I've haven't seen another besides Kam since Adam Duer at the end of Thorne's first season.  I think there will be some struggles, but they return alot of talent its ture. I'm excited to see what they will do. I think they're going to have to do alot of effective gameplanning if they hope to repeart as conference Champs...that being said I think we all know how Thorne feels about loosing...he hates it more than he likes winning. He wasn't satisfied with 6 and 7 win seasons and he let us know that. He will do everything as a coach to keep the Cards successfull

Either Fanthorpe or Knapczyk(sp?) will be the man at QB this year barring something unforeseen.  Knapczyk is a little bigger and throws well.  I'm not sure how well he will be able to run the option out of the spread.  He put the ball on the ground a couple of times last year in mop up duty.  Fanthorpe is a tough kid out of Naperville North.  He also throws pretty well and I believe is a better runner.  He is smaller than Knapczyk.  It should make for an interesting camp in Naperville.

[79jaybird]

On the subject of QB's there is a Senior QB in Ric Radcliffe at Wheaton that I hope gets some quality PT this fall.  His Father (Bruce) was a coach of mine while I was at Prospect High School.  AS a fellow knight I hope Ric gets a chance at the starters spot.  Ullrich is a pretty good QB too.

[usee]

Gentlemen, thank-you. My inquiry was a long shot for it indeed would have been 1968-1972.
It seemed unusual that a Southern California kid went back to a small school in Illinois. I did not even know he did until I heard of his demise.

Yes, for many it does seem a bit odd to come to a small, private, liberal-arts college in Wheaton, all the way from California.  We (I) have posted the numbers here before, but a staggering percentage of Wheaton students come from all over the nation and world.  Since you may not be aware of this fact, all you need to do is look at their football roster.  Players are from all over the country... quite unique.

http://www.wheaton.edu/Athletics/football/index.html

Mugsy, I love the way you represent fpr your school, but if you look at the time frame in the message above, Do you think your statement would be applicable? Recruiting on a national level as Swider does, " If i want fast kids I don't look for them here in Illinois" I don't think was done in D3 in the late sixties eaarly seventies.

Honestly I can't say one way or the other dating back to the 60's and early 70's.  It is true my comment was framed with a context of from the early 1980's to present.  That said my initial reaction to "I don't think it was done in D3 in the late sixties..."  How can you be so certain?  Without more information neither of us can say for certain, yet...

What I do have some level of confidence is that the overall makeup of the student body (in terms of geography) hasn't changed too much.  From what I can tell, Wheaton has almost always had students orginating from a very broad spectrum of states and countries. 

Coach Swiders recruiting has NOT been more national than Coach Bishop.  It may be true that Coach Swider has focused on certain areas of the country more, like Texas, Florida and California.  What most outside Wheaton football don't know is that historically the Wheaton coaches have relied heavily on the football alums all over the country to pass on names of local high school athletes that would fit what Wheaton is looking for.  That is in part why so many players come from all over the country - in fact a few years back Wheaton had a player from Papau New Guinea (a missionary kid).

I can't say with certainty for the coaches preceeding Coach Bishop, but I'll try to see if I can find historical data to indicate one way or the other.

wheaton's campus has always been pretty geographically diverse. Athletics is no different. I don't have all the records but you can pick a few to see:

Dave Iha-all american qb on the 1961 undefeated squad--from Hawaii
Chuck Schoenherr-top rb at wheaton before the likes of pedro arruza, class of 1954--i think he was from michigan
David Burnham-all conference performer for the team formerly known as Crusaders back in the 50's (and more importantly a preacher at a large church in Ohio for most of his post college career) came from Florida I am pretty sure

there are many others but I haven't finished looking them all up yet.

wheaton's diversity hasn't changed over the years. its a tough place to find what they are looking for. you have to look nationally.

[NCC_alum62]

I have really been impressed with Wheaton for thier across the nation student population even though they are not a "large" institution. But thier connections through faith make alot of guys interested. I don't think I could have been a student there, but they definetly have a core set of values that some people love enough to leave thier state to go to school there.

I look at thier roster and I see kids from alot of christian schools or schools (like Wheaton North) that have a tremendous christian pressence there.  Thier coaches coach with faith etc etc, so Wheaton is a great fit for them.  Especially at smaller D-III schools its all about the fit and feel of a college and Wheaton has something that you can't get everywhere else.

I don't know if I could live with some of thier rules personally, but they play with class and I've always respected that.

[NCC_alum62]

They remind me of Olivet Nazarene University (where the Bears have summer camp) they are a similar type of school (I had some friends play FB there) they are NAIA...and like wheaton they have a very across the nation student population.

[Gregory Sager]

North Park also has a very geographically diverse population, as most of the resident undergraduates are out-of-staters, and there's also a significant international presence (mostly Scandinavians, Koreans, and missionary kids) as well. This reflects the fact that NPU is the sole four-year college of the Evangelical Covenant Church, and even though the denomination is small (only 110,000 or so members in the U.S.) it's established in almost every state from Maine to California.

This geographic diversity is much less noticeable if you examine the rosters of NPU's various athletic programs, because the school's various coaches have always tended to recruit their athletes locally here in Chicagoland (although school history is replete with examples of great athletes who came from somewhere outside the borders of Illinois). It's created what to outsiders is a strange phenomenon, but to Parkers is business as usual: A bunch of kids on the field from Chicago and Berwyn and Downers Grove and Skokie and Calumet City being cheered on by a bunch of kids in the stands from Minnesota and Colorado and Massachusetts and Kansas and Oregon.

[usee]

North Park also has a very geographically diverse population, as most of the resident undergraduates are out-of-staters, and there's also a significant international presence (mostly Scandinavians, Koreans, and missionary kids) as well. This reflects the fact that NPU is the sole four-year college of the Evangelical Covenant Church, and even though the denomination is small (only 110,000 or so members in the U.S.) it's established in almost every state from Maine to California.

This geographic diversity is much less noticeable if you examine the rosters of NPU's various athletic programs, because the school's various coaches have always tended to recruit their athletes locally here in Chicagoland (although school history is replete with examples of great athletes who came from somewhere outside the borders of Illinois). It's created what to outsiders is a strange phenomenon, but to Parkers is business as usual: A bunch of kids on the field from Chicago and Berwyn and Downers Grove and Skokie and Calumet City being cheered on by a bunch of kids in the stands from Minnesota and Colorado and Massachusetts and Kansas and Oregon.

Very interesting you point that out Greg. I have always noticed NPU's student population as geographically diverse over the years and never put it together in conjunction w their sports rosters without your obvious explanation. this falls under the "you learn something new everyday" category for me.

[Gregory Sager]

The reasons behind NPU's locally-based athletic recruiting strategy are fairly simple:

1) A denominational membership of 110,000 people -- not 110,000 teenagers, 110,000 people in toto above confirmation age -- is sufficient to produce a solid cadre of 500 or 600 top-notch college students, but it's a pretty small talent pool for CCIW-level athletic purposes;

2) North Park is not a wealthy school, and it has to make do with a fairly lean athletic budget every year. That leaves little room for the airfare necessary to properly recruit prospects on a coast-to-coast basis;

3) Local, non-Covenant students have always made up a substantial portion of the NPU student body and are a recognized constituency within the school's institutional mission;

4) Chicagoland provides a deep and accessible supply of athletic talent on the preps level; and

4) NPU coaches themselves have tended to come from local, non-Covenant backgrounds, and as such were likely to recruit on the terrain they knew best. This is less true now than in years past, as I'd say that only about half of the current North Park athletic department consists of native Illinoisians. In fact, the school's most successful coach at the moment (men's soccer coach John Born) is a native of Wisconsin, and his team's roster is among the most geographically diverse on the North Park campus.

[Gray Fox]

North Park also has a very geographically diverse population, as most of the resident undergraduates are out-of-staters, and there's also a significant international presence (mostly Scandinavians, Koreans, and missionary kids) as well. This reflects the fact that NPU is the sole four-year college of the Evangelical Covenant Church, and even though the denomination is small (only 110,000 or so members in the U.S.) it's established in almost every state from Maine to California.

This geographic diversity is much less noticeable if you examine the rosters of NPU's various athletic programs, because the school's various coaches have always tended to recruit their athletes locally here in Chicagoland (although school history is replete with examples of great athletes who came from somewhere outside the borders of Illinois). It's created what to outsiders is a strange phenomenon, but to Parkers is business as usual: A bunch of kids on the field from Chicago and Berwyn and Downers Grove and Skokie and Calumet City being cheered on by a bunch of kids in the stands from Minnesota and Colorado and Massachusetts and Kansas and Oregon.

I am amazed at the knowledge of the various religions shown by several of the  HoFers.

[omaha]

The reasons behind NPU's locally-based athletic recruiting strategy are fairly simple:

1) A denominational membership of 110,000 people -- not 110,000 teenagers, 110,000 people in toto above confirmation age -- is sufficient to produce a solid cadre of 500 or 600 top-notch college students, but it's a pretty small talent pool for CCIW-level athletic purposes;

2) North Park is not a wealthy school, and it has to make do with a fairly lean athletic budget every year. That leaves little room for the airfare necessary to properly recruit prospects on a coast-to-coast basis;

3) Local, non-Covenant students have always made up a substantial portion of the NPU student body and are a recognized constituency within the school's institutional mission;

4) Chicagoland provides a deep and accessible supply of athletic talent on the preps level; and

4) NPU coaches themselves have tended to come from local, non-Covenant backgrounds, and as such were likely to recruit on the terrain they knew best. This is less true now than in years past, as I'd say that only about half of the current North Park athletic department consists of native Illinoisians. In fact, the school's most successful coach at the moment (men's soccer coach John Born) is a native of Wisconsin, and his team's roster is among the most geographically diverse on the North Park campus.

Greg is correct, but this has not always been the case. 

When North Park was a junior college (North Park became a four-year college in 1958) most of its athletes were Covenanters from various parts of the country. 

Basketball was the first sport to change its recruiting focus to the Chicago area. Royner Greene became basketball coach in 1960. After North Park joined the CCIW in 1961 he felt North Park needed to recruit Chicago-area athletes to compete in the CCIW.  Only seven of the twenty-one players listed on the 1961-62 roster came from the Chicago-area. Nine of the fifteen players on the roster came from the Chicago area the following year.  Since that time the majority of North Park's basketball players come from the Chicago area.

Football did not change its recruiting focus until ten years later.  When North Park had its only winning season in the CCIW in 1968 five players were Covenanters from Jamestown, New York.  The national-wide recruiting emphasis changed when Bill Gourley became coach in 1970.  An article in the Chicago Sn Times described the change.

"Not so long ago North Park College's football roster resembled a national road map.  Players from California, New Hampshire, Florida and other far-away places made up more than 50 per cent of the Vikings' grid roster as late as 1965.  Bill Gourley changed all that in just two short years as head coach at the North side school.

"'The Chicago area is one of the nation's strongest sections for high school football,' said Gourley, 'so its natural that we would recruit most heavily here.'

"This season (1972) there are only five only of state performers on North Park's 43-man roster...Gourley has been doing his heaviest recruiting in the suburban area...Gourley is optimistic about North Park's chances to continue competing with some of the big schools for the area's football talent.

"'North Park plays all its games near Chicago,' said Gourley. 'Parents like that, since it is easy for them to see their sons play in all their college games.'

[Gregory Sager]

I am amazed at the knowledge of the various religions shown by several of the  HoFers.

Thanks, but there's not much reason to be amazed in this particular instance, since it's my school and my denomination.

Greg is correct, but this has not always been the case. 

When North Park was a junior college (North Park became a four-year college in 1958) most of its athletes were Covenanters from various parts of the country. 

Basketball was the first sport to change its recruiting focus to the Chicago area. Royner Greene became basketball coach in 1960. After North Park joined the CCIW in 1961 he felt North Park needed to recruit Chicago-area athletes to compete in the CCIW.  Only seven of the twenty-one players listed on the 1961-62 roster came from the Chicago-area. Nine of the fifteen players on the roster came from the Chicago area the following year.  Since that time the majority of North Park's basketball players come from the Chicago area.

Football did not change its recruiting focus until ten years later.  When North Park had its only winning season in the CCIW in 1968 five players were Covenanters from Jamestown, New York.  The national-wide recruiting emphasis changed when Bill Gourley became coach in 1970.  An article in the Chicago Sn Times described the change.

"Not so long ago North Park College's football roster resembled a national road map.  Players from California, New Hampshire, Florida and other far-away places made up more than 50 per cent of the Vikings' grid roster as late as 1965.  Bill Gourley changed all that in just two short years as head coach at the North side school.

"'The Chicago area is one of the nation's strongest sections for high school football,' said Gourley, 'so its natural that we would recruit most heavily here.'

"This season (1972) there are only five only of state performers on North Park's 43-man roster...Gourley has been doing his heaviest recruiting in the suburban area...Gourley is optimistic about North Park's chances to continue competing with some of the big schools for the area's football talent.

"'North Park plays all its games near Chicago,' said Gourley. 'Parents like that, since it is easy for them to see their sons play in all their college games.'

Now that is a history lesson! Right down to the quotes from yellowed 35-year-old Sun-Times articles ... what more could you want? Omaha is a former member of North Park's Board of Trustees, so he certainly knows his stuff where NPU athletics is concerned.

Thanks!

(And, yeah, it's hard to miss the irony of North Park's only gridiron success coming during the era when out-of-state Covenant players formed the bulk of the roster.)

[NCC_alum62]

Any news on the NPU recruiting front by the way???

Would love to hear if they've gotten some help for this season...

How about the rest of ya? :-) Any word from Decatur or Rock Island?

[NCC_alum62]

Jason Lewis (OT from Mt. Union) had a pro day workout at Bowling Green State University recently...the link is over on the OAC board if you're interested. He got heavy and he is kinda slow and repped 21 on the bench.

[usee]

Jason Lewis (OT from Mt. Union) had a pro day workout at Bowling Green State University recently...the link is over on the OAC board if you're interested. He got heavy and he is kinda slow and repped 21 on the bench.

He gone

[Mugsy]

Jason Lewis (OT from Mt. Union) had a pro day workout at Bowling Green State University recently...the link is over on the OAC board if you're interested. He got heavy and he is kinda slow and repped 21 on the bench.

He gone

Can you say "semi-pro" league on Saturday morning?