FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Comet 14]

I was wondering what the rules are for playing in D3 after transfering? Are they the same for D3 to D3 and D3 to D1 or D2?

[79jaybird]

"The city is comming back and comming back strong..."
Hopefully the city is SPELLING correctly.  coming has only 1 m. 
Glad to see North Park start to "edge out" other CCIW schools for recruits.  All these clues, additions, signs are indeed signs that a solid foundation is being built at North Park.  Carthage started with a base foundation and built it from there, North Central the same, and even Elmhurst with their improvements all started with a foundation.  In Elm/NC/and NPU's case it started with a coaching change.

[NCC_alum62]

"The city is comming back and comming back strong..."
Hopefully the city is SPELLING correctly.  coming has only 1 m. 
Glad to see North Park start to "edge out" other CCIW schools for recruits.  All these clues, additions, signs are indeed signs that a solid foundation is being built at North Park.  Carthage started with a base foundation and built it from there, North Central the same, and even Elmhurst with their improvements all started with a foundation.  In Elm/NC/and NPU's case it started with a coaching change.

Jaybird79: I don't know what you're talking about  if you'll look at my post I clearly spelled coming correctly...

Thank god for the edit post feature

[NCC_alum62]

It would make the CCIW a much better conference if NPU would continue to get better.  I think if the CCIW was stronger top to bottom it would help our play-off win percentage if it had greater parity within the conference.

[Pat Coleman]

I was wondering what the rules are for playing in D3 after transfering? Are they the same for D3 to D3 and D3 to D1 or D2?

There is no Division III-mandated sitting-out period after transferring between Division III schools. However, some conferences, including the CCIW, regulate transfers between conference schools.

Someone with more CCIW-specific knowledge can speak to this particular rule.

[matblake]

From the CCIW Bylaws Article III Section 1  "Transfers. A transfer who participated in a sport at another conference school shall not be eligible to participate for a second CCIW school in that sport until one year after the student's last season of participation at his or her first school (revised 4/06)."

For all the CCIW bylaws check here.

[Mugsy]

From the CCIW Bylaws Article III Section 1  "Transfers. A transfer who participated in a sport at another conference school shall not be eligible to participate for a second CCIW school in that sport until one year after the student's last season of participation at his or her first school (revised 4/06)."

For all the CCIW bylaws check here.

Yup... back in the early 1990's Wheaton had a lineman transfer in from IWU - Jim Johanik.  He had to sit out 1 year before he was able to play for Wheaton.  It was worth the wait as he was an All-Conference OL and captain of the 1993 team.

[matblake]

From the CCIW Bylaws Article III Section 1  "Transfers. A transfer who participated in a sport at another conference school shall not be eligible to participate for a second CCIW school in that sport until one year after the student's last season of participation at his or her first school (revised 4/06)."

For all the CCIW bylaws check here.

Yup... back in the early 1990's Wheaton had a lineman transfer in from IWU - Jim Johanik.  He had to sit out 1 year before he was able to play for Wheaton.  It was worth the wait as he was an All-Conference OL and captain of the 1993 team.

I believe that Keith Bishop sat out a year too, before competing for the then Crusaders.

[79jaybird]

NccAlum62-  hehe,  yes the edit post feature is a blessing and has saved me (too) many times.
Matblake- that was my initial thought, but I didn't want to post because I wasn't 100% sure.  
I know the Bluejays leave for Italy here in 2 weeks.  When does Augie leave for Europe?

[Comet 14]

Thank you, I knew I would get the right info here. I am surprised there is no D3 penalty for transfering schools and wanting to play a sport.

[Pat Coleman]

I'm not surprised. Players aren't on scholarship and I'm sure they didn't want to force kids to pay for a fifth year.

[robberki]

I know that many previous coaches had ZERO support from administration in terms of new facilities and committment to the program (why some of the recent coaches left) and thats from thier point of view (connections during a coaching clinic between them and my h.s. coaches).  I think that with this newfound support and a cohesive coaching staff and getting players to stick around all four years they can make noise.

They've had some skill here and there. They've had some great INDIVIDUAL performers, but they lacked any true team cohesion.  This new coach seems to really be trying to address that.  I'm not saying that they are ready now, but half of the battle in the beginning is instilling the right attitude, seems like they are on the way to doing that with the new facilities and coaching attitude.  Like I said before I'm not ready to say watch out for NPU, but they're taking the steps that poorly performing teams need to take to get better.

the zero support comment is completely 100% BS. It's absolutely not true. There are/were many issues in play regarding the football team historically. Facilities were an issue, but that was partially addressed almost 5 years ago and completely solved this year.

[NCC_alum62]

I know that many previous coaches had ZERO support from administration in terms of new facilities and committment to the program (why some of the recent coaches left) and thats from thier point of view (connections during a coaching clinic between them and my h.s. coaches).  I think that with this newfound support and a cohesive coaching staff and getting players to stick around all four years they can make noise.

They've had some skill here and there. They've had some great INDIVIDUAL performers, but they lacked any true team cohesion.  This new coach seems to really be trying to address that.  I'm not saying that they are ready now, but half of the battle in the beginning is instilling the right attitude, seems like they are on the way to doing that with the new facilities and coaching attitude.  Like I said before I'm not ready to say watch out for NPU, but they're taking the steps that poorly performing teams need to take to get better.

the zero support comment is completely 100% BS. It's absolutely not true. There are/were many issues in play regarding the football team historically. Facilities were an issue, but that was partially addressed almost 5 years ago and completely solved this year.

Like I stated in the post this is from a previous coaches mouth...I don't know personally what the deal was.  One coach in particular said he asked for a list of things (new weight room, refurbished field/facility, and something that eludes me at this moment) he said the administration said no and he resigned...

You cannot recruit to a program that doesn't have a winning tradition without an up-to-date wieght room, a decent field, and good overall facilities...NCC was able to recruit with the promise of a new weight room and Cardinal Stadium (now benidetti wherli) that stadium was a major factor in me going there to play football as far as facilities go.


What was partially resolved 5 years ago??...I've played against them within the pas five years and I didn't see anything even close to resolved 4-5 years ago...I would say it is now much much much better.  The last year I played against them was the first year they had the new field-turf. 

I would say things will be "solved" when NPU has a winning season, which I think is within thier grasp in the next couple of years if they continue on the path the current coaching staff is taking.

[79jaybird]

Certainly winning and lots of hardware in the trophy cabinets make a big difference, however there are other factors that come into play with recruiting.  As NCCAlum62 mentions, weightroom, facilities, grounds all come into play.  Also
Location 
Academic Programs and reputations
College Atmosphere
and what I call the "Campus Environment"  Some of the recruiting ventures I went on,  the various campuses appeared "dead" and the people we talked to didn't appear to "want" to be here.  So I believe there are a bunch of variables that come into play, when (as NCCAlum said) there aren't as many W's on the board or trophies in the case.  (Ala NC, EC, NPU, and Carthage)

[Gregory Sager]

Gerg:

I didn't want to quote the whole thing but in response to city football dying...

I have to disagree with you on this one.  The city WAS dead as far as getting teams past the first round of state play-offs...but there have been a few schools (granted a minority) that have really imroved and challenged getting as far as the semi-finals in the last 4-6 years.

The city is coming back and coming back strong and signing day shows us that there is great talent if not always great coaching.  Martez Wilson to IL, the hubbard RB to ND, Allthough Mt. Caramel is a Catholic school it is still a city team and they continue to challenge every year in state (granted WWS trounced them, but they trounced everybody this year).  The CPS is taking the steps to get out of the cellar and they are starting to beat good suburban teams.  This was unheard of between 1995-2000.  I hardly consider football to be dying in the city of Chicago high schools.

If the state can ever find a way to equalize the funding between suburban and city schools then we will see greater parity in terms of facilities, staffing (more paid coaches), and equipment. Until then subruban teams will have an advantage in coaching (because they can actually hire more coaches) and training (better weight rooms, traning staff)

I'm pretty passionate about this because I played in CPS system and I take pride in it.

There have always been individual players here and there who have come out of the CPS and been able to play college football -- a few have even excelled in the big-time D1 ranks and even made it to the NFL (e.g., Russell Maryland). But these are exceptions that prove the rule. The number of CPS football players who go on to play college football at any level is abysmally low when compared to the number of college football players who are products of Illinois suburban high schools, even when taking into consideration the fact that the suburbs have roughly two residents for every Chicago resident. And in a lot of cases, the CPS players that are courted by colleges are sought more for their raw athletic potential than for their refined football skills. And that's an indicator of both the coaching lag that exists between the city and the 'burbs, and the fact that suburban kids often get access to things such as additional instruction and technique refinement at off-season football camps that most city kids don't get.

Some of the disparity between the number of city-bred college football players and suburban-bred college football players has to do with the academic deficiencies that're widespread within the Chicago Public School system, but we all know that there are college football programs out there that will find a place for a talented kid who can't do much more than sign his name with an "X".  And some of it is urban culture as well. It's not uncommon to have two or three times as many kids try out for the basketball team as there are trying out for football -- and in the Public League, many football rosters are so starved for kids that they'll hand out a helmet and pads to anyone who tries out, whereas often nine out of every ten kids who try out for the basketball team don't make it.

The fact of the matter is that the Public League is way behind the suburban schools in football. When you look at the number of kids enrolled in the CPS as compared to the state as a whole, you'll see that the percentage that go on to play football at the next level -- and the percentage of teams that have any modicum of statewide success -- is significantly below par.

When I posted in this room a few weeks ago about the difficulties encountered by Roosevelt High School's football team -- the shrunken roster, the woeful practice field, the lack of equipment and coaches -- I was speaking of something that's all-too-common among Public League teams. Compared to what Public League football was two generations ago, when the Prep Bowl at Soldier Field (CPL champ vs. CCL champ) was one of the sports highlights of the year for the entire city and the Public League was turning out players as storied as Dick Butkus and Darryl Stingley, it is most definitely in a state of serious decline. I root for Public League teams, NCC_alum62, and for each and every Public League player who straps on the pads and helmet for a college team. That's not just because I'm a resident of the city, but also because I like to root for the underdog and for the dedicated few who buck the odds. But it doesn't do them any favors to paint a rosier picture about Public League football than what actually exists.

As for the state legislature mandating the equal funding of city and suburban schools ... well, don't get your hopes up. Pigs will fly before parents and local school districts cede the control over their educational tax dollars to the state in order to subsidize the education of somebody else's children. Local control over education -- in terms of funding, facilities, staff, curriculum, etc. -- is a cherished and aggressively-protected tradition in American life, particularly where the haves are concerned rather than the have-nots. That's just the way it is, and, state and federal subsidies and funding mandates aside, it's not going away anytime soon. That parity that you're looking for between suburban high schools and city high schools in terms of football facilities, equipment, coaching (quantity and quality), etc., is likewise not going to happen anytime soon.

Above and beyond that, personal wealth creates opportunities. As I said, suburban football players from middle-class or upper middle-class backgrounds often get the opportunity to attend football camps in the summer to receive additional instruction and to better hone their games. City kids almost never have parents who have the resources to extend that sort of luxury to them. Moreover, the great equalizer that exists in terms of non-scholastic instruction and competition in basketball -- AAU programs -- doesn't exist in any large sense for football. AAU basketball is a multi-million-dollar industry that annually draws intense interest within the basketball community. AAU football, both in its 5-on-5 and its 7-on-7 incarnations, is a mom-and-pop operation by comparison. If you're a talented basketball player from the city, you can hook up with an AAU team and play top-notch competition in the off-season with at least some minimal additional coaching. If you're a talented football player from the city, that sort of extracurricular windfall usually won't be in the cards for you.

(Mount Carmel is an exception to the decline of high school football in the city of Chicago. It's a private high school where football is a semi-sacred institution, and parents who have sons that have an aptitude for the sport actively seek out Mount Carmel as a place to send their offspring.)