FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[usee]

greg,

the analogy of wheaton rebuild and NP is not different at all. you spend all your time looking at history. I am merely making the comparison of when a coach and an administration commit to each other (JR Bishop and Wheaton) good things can happen. NPU and its previous coaches didn't fully commit. it appears now they are headed in the right direction. we won't know for a few years but with added resources, staff and facilities they have a fighting chance.

I also think wheaton's football budget is probably at the lower end of the CCIW. I know their coaches are likely the lowest paid in the conference.

I'm not looking at history, usee, although Chuck is very much on point with his remarks about how NPU is hamstrung by four decades of bad, bad football. Like it or not, local high school coaches are the gateway to landing recruits -- and most high school coaches are not going to recommend a school that has historically had such dismal football fortunes, so many coaching changes, and such a poor retention rate among players. Half the battle right now is for Scott Pethtel and his coaches to wedge their foot in the door of the offices of local high school coaches, and that's easier said than done. He and his staff are working lots of alternative player sources (Michigan, the native state of Scott and a couple of his assistants, f'rinstance, as well as Covenant sources) because they need to widen the net and supplement the local pool, and the reluctance of some local high school coaches to deal with North Park enters into that.

As for Wheaton's budget, we're talking about a school that recruits nationally. Plane fare costs a lot more money than does gas and tolls, $4/gallon or not. And Chuck's also right that on the D3 level overall institutional resources (which are a direct reflection of wealth) plays into recruiting to some degree.

Incidentally, since Chuck brought it up, here's the latest CCIW endowment figures:

Augustana	$101.2m
Carthage	n/a (last I saw, it was around $38m)
Elmhurst	$  87m
Illinois Wesleyan	$171.1m
Millikin	$  80.3m
North Central	$  70.6m
North Park	$  36.4m
Wheaton	$313.1m

You can't commit what you don't have.

Greg,

You make my points excellently. You don't actually think because Wheaton had a winning team in 1959 they have access to HS coaches do you? They got good players because JR Bishop was a legend in Indiana and Illinois and ran the most successful HS passing camp in the country. He had a great reputation and coaches (particularly christian coaches) sent him names. THey got players because Mike Swider came and pounded the pavement finding players in pockets around the country and building relationships with former alums and christian coaches that look for players matching wheaton's standards. It was a committed staff that built this program among many other factors.

As far as budget, how many players does an average CCIW team bring on campus? I would guess about 300 (some significantly more). what does each visit cost? $100 after food, gas, tolls, housing, entertainment etc? Wheaton brings maybe 45-50 players (that might be high) at an average cost of, I would guess, $600. either way you slice it that's 30k for both schools. My math may be off but not by much. The point is that wheaton brings in far fewer players (because they can't afford to. don't have the budget) than any other CCIW school. they have to be right more than the other guys.

On endowement, if you don't spend it on athletics, it doesn't matter if you have it or not, its an even playing field. And if you think wheaton spends more on athletics than any other CCIW school you are badly misinformed.

My simple point is a committed staff and a committed administration can win in the CCIW. wheaton did it and now NPU has the chance. we will see

[Mugsy]

I have been reading these posts and Mr. Ypsi I would have to say that is by far the most intelligent post on the subject. I couldn't agree with you more.

I hope you meant Mr. Mugsy

Don't be ridiculous!  No one expecting to receive any respect on this board would post that they agree with me.  

[CardinalAlum]

Don't be ridiculous!  No one expecting to receive any respect on this board would post that they agree with me.  

[Comet 14]

Whoops! I did meen Mugsy sorry Mr. Ypsi. I quit trying to recieve any respect along time ago, but I do agree with your post that there are many factors that go into building a winning program year in and year out not just $ and pretty weight rooms. The coaches have to not only be able to get into the high schools but they have to be able to win after they get the recruits to come to there school. That comes from good coaching.

[diehardfan]

Don't be ridiculous!  No one expecting to receive any respect on this board would post that they agree with me.   

Lol.... is that the reason why I don't have respect? And here all this time I thought it was cause I don't know what I'm talking about. 

On endowement, if you don't spend it on athletics, it doesn't matter if you have it or not, its an even playing field. And if you think wheaton spends more on athletics than any other CCIW school you are badly misinformed.

Should I post the published numbers for the FB programs of all the schools? I'm sure I can get them if I look.

[matblake]

On endowement, if you don't spend it on athletics, it doesn't matter if you have it or not, its an even playing field. And if you think wheaton spends more on athletics than any other CCIW school you are badly misinformed.

Should I post the published numbers for the FB programs of all the schools? I'm sure I can get them if I look.

That could actually be very interesting.  I say if you're willing, go ahead. 

[matblake]

I know that it is like 16 weeks and 5 days away (not that I am keeping track  ), but it anyone planning on making it to the Wheaton/Albion game in Albion on Sept 1?  Since 2 hours is a lot better than 5 hours I thought I would make it out there and it would be great to see anyone. 

[CardinalAlum]

Don't be ridiculous!  No one expecting to receive any respect on this board would post that they agree with me.   

Lol.... is that the reason why I don't have respect? And here all this time I thought it was cause I don't know what I'm talking about. 
 

Yes..........and it IS!!   

[Mugsy]

Don't be ridiculous!  No one expecting to receive any respect on this board would post that they agree with me.   

Lol.... is that the reason why I don't have respect? And here all this time I thought it was cause I don't know what I'm talking about. 
 

Yes..........and it IS!!   

Whoa... it must be the offseason.  CardAlum, did she place that close enough to your "wheel house"?

April walked right into that one.

[diehardfan]

Don't be ridiculous!  No one expecting to receive any respect on this board would post that they agree with me.   

Lol.... is that the reason why I don't have respect? And here all this time I thought it was cause I don't know what I'm talking about. 

Yes..........and it IS!!   

Whoa... it must be the offseason.  CardAlum, did she place that close enough to your "wheel house"?

April walked right into that one.

If I set myself to be made fun of, and Card Alum makes fun of me, aren't I just bending him to my will? Don't worry, no matter what, we always win. It's all about the spin.

Is this where usee and I convince Greg that Illinois copied our school colors again?  8)

[CardinalAlum]

Don't be ridiculous!  No one expecting to receive any respect on this board would post that they agree with me.   

Lol.... is that the reason why I don't have respect? And here all this time I thought it was cause I don't know what I'm talking about. 
 

Yes..........and it IS!!   

Whoa... it must be the offseason.  CardAlum, did she place that close enough to your "wheel house"?

Well.....you both did!  You both set it up on the tee for me.  8)  Usee, what have you got for me?   

[diehardfan]

On endowement, if you don't spend it on athletics, it doesn't matter if you have it or not, its an even playing field. And if you think wheaton spends more on athletics than any other CCIW school you are badly misinformed.

Should I post the published numbers for the FB programs of all the schools? I'm sure I can get them if I look.

That could actually be very interesting.  I say if you're willing, go ahead. 

Alright, here you go. This is, of course, 2005-2006 data since this year is not yet complete. Most of it is football data only, but apparently the recruiting budgets are only available for all teams.

Revenues:
1.   Augustana
2.   Carthage
3.   Wheaton
4.   North Park
5.   Millikin
6.   Illinois Wesleyan
7.   North Central
8.   Elmhurst

Expenses:
1.   Carthage
2.   Augustana
3.   North Park
4.   Wheaton
5.   Millikin
6.   Illinois Wesleyan
7.   Elmhurst
8.   North Central

Operating Expenses:
1.   North Central
2.   Carthage
3.   Elmhurst
4.   Millikin
5.   Wheaton
6.   Augustana
7.   North Park
8.   Illinois Wesleyan

Operating Expenses Per Player:
1.   North Central
2.   Elmhurst
3.   Carthage
4.   Wheaton
5.   North Park
6.   Millikin
7.   Illinois Wesleyan
8.   Augustana

Recruiting Expenses (All Men’s Teams):
1.   Augustana
2.   Millikin
3.   Carthage
4.   Wheaton
5.   Elmhurst
6.   North Park
7.   IWU
8.   North Central

And for some context, the results for 05 were....

1. Augustana...........    7  0  0  233  87 1.000   
2. North Central.......    6  1  0  260 126  .857   
3. Wheaton.............    4  3  0  194 142  .571   
3. Carthage............    4  3  0  163 117  .571   
5. Elmhurst............    3  4  0  183 219  .429   
6. Millikin............    2  5  0  151 231  .286   
7. Illinois Wesleyan...    2  5  0  122 189  .286   
8. North Park..........    0  7  0   59 254  .000   

Is it just me, or do the results have basically nothing to do with the money spent in any of those categories?

[diehardfan]

And here is the actual breakdown of the numbers by individual school:

Augustana College:
Revenues: $445,194
Expenses: $395,565
Operating Expenses: $52,651
Operating Expenses per player: $415
Recruiting expenses, all men's teams: $63,012 (oh wow!)

Carthage College:
Revenues: $402,796
Expenses: $402,796
Operating Expenses: $99,140
Operating Expenses per player: $918 
Recruiting expenses, all men's teams: $30,750

Elmhurst College:
Revenues: $209,580
Expenses: $240,651
Operating Expenses: $79,352
Operating Expenses per player: $934
Recruiting expenses, all men's teams: $24,450

Illinois Wesleyan University:
Revenues: $240,071
Expenses: $240,071
Operating Expenses: $42,285
Operating Expenses per player: $436 
Recruiting expenses, all men's teams: $11,239 (yeah right)

Millikin University:
Revenues: $243,813
Expenses: $241,438
Operating Expenses: $69,956
Operating Expenses per player: $642 
Recruiting expenses, all men's teams: $36,646

North Central College:
Revenues: $218,258
Expenses: $219,552
Operating Expenses: $99,691
Operating Expenses per player: $940
Recruiting expenses, all men's teams: $0 uh huh...

North Park University:
Revenues: $330,069
Expenses: $319,893
Operating Expenses: $52,593
Operating Expenses per player: $683 
Recruiting expenses, all men's teams: $19,724

Wheaton College:
Revenues: $341,478
Expenses: $274,927 
Operating Expenses: $66,621
Operating Expenses per player: $732 
Recruiting expenses, all men's teams: $24,459

And now maybe I should go back to work?

[CardinalAlum]

April,

Those last two posts are part of the reasons that you are a Hall of Famer!(That and you paid Pat quite well! )  Nice job with the info.

[Titanwatcher]

Where do you get this information?  Also, while you find NCC & IWU numbers laughable, it would seem to me that if these are the recruiting numbers for all mens sports, the Augie coaches are staying at the Four Seasons, by comparison.