FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[burly]

I'm not taking sides in what looks to be an interesting intra-Carthage debate, just providing some of the missing info:

1999 vs. Augie
Kevin Burris: 12 carries, 35 yards, 1 TD

2002 vs. Augie
Randall Baker: 21 carries, 55 yards, 0 TD

2004 vs. Augie (35-0, Augie)
Dante Washington: 23 carries, 107 yards, 0 TD

Thank you dansand.  I wasn't able to find those on the Augustana website.

[CardinalAlum]

Regarding the discussion on how great Baker and Burris were and the comment, "The Option is like Novocain; just give it time and it works!" I need to make a few points. 

Although both Baker and Burris very good division 3 football players, let's examine what they did when it counted the most:

Randal Baker, 2002 (4-6, 3-4 CCIW)

Vs. Wheaton (conference champs)
   96 yards on 26 carries (long 30)
   0 TDs
   36-6 loss

Vs. Augustana
   Stats aren't available – 34-28 loss

Vs. Wesleyan*
   112 yards on 34 carries (Long 14)
   2 TDs
   21-20 win

*Average 6-4 Wesleyan team with losses to Wheaton, Augie, Milikin and Carthage

Kevin Burris, 1999 (5-4, 4-3 in CCIW)

Vs. Augustana (conference champs)
   stats aren't available, 31-9 loss

Vs. Wheaton
   46 yards on 18 carries (long 21)
   0 TDs
   30-14 loss

Vs. Wesleyan
   stats aren't available, 44-27 loss

I admire your love for your players, but it's a lot of hype...

You guys are talking about the wrong guys.  No RB statistically speaking has done more for Carthage in the last 10 years (maybe ever?) then Dante Washington did in 2004.  Even with a shutout against Augie and a loss against Mount Union, only with the statistics below can you accurately covet your beloved RBs as you have in the previous posts.

RUSHING              GP-GS  Att Gain Loss  Net   Avg  TD Long Avg/G
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Washington, Dante    13-13  463 2094  104 1990   4.3  14   64 153.1

Thanks Dante!!!   

[RedmenBigD]

Hello everybody.

Regarding the discussion on how great Baker and Burris were and the comment, "The Option is like Novocain; just give it time and it works!" I need to make a few points. 

Although both Baker and Burris very good division 3 football players, let's examine what they did when it counted the most:

Randal Baker, 2002 (4-6, 3-4 CCIW)

Vs. Wheaton (conference champs)
   96 yards on 26 carries (long 30)
   0 TDs
   36-6 loss

Vs. Augustana
   Stats aren't available – 34-28 loss

Vs. Wesleyan*
   112 yards on 34 carries (Long 14)
   2 TDs
   21-20 win

*Average 6-4 Wesleyan team with losses to Wheaton, Augie, Milikin and Carthage

Kevin Burris, 1999 (5-4, 4-3 in CCIW)

Vs. Augustana (conference champs)
   stats aren't available, 31-9 loss

Vs. Wheaton
   46 yards on 18 carries (long 21)
   0 TDs
   30-14 loss

Vs. Wesleyan
   stats aren't available, 44-27 loss

I admire your love for your players, but it's a lot of hype...

You guys are talking about the wrong guys.  No RB statistically speaking has done more for Carthage in the last 10 years (maybe ever?) then Dante Washington did in 2004.  Even with a shutout against Augie and a loss against Mount Union, only with the statistics below can you accurately covet your beloved RBs as you have in the previous posts.

RUSHING              GP-GS  Att Gain Loss  Net   Avg  TD Long Avg/G
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Washington, Dante    13-13  463 2094  104 1990   4.3  14   64 153.1

By no means were we taking anything away from what Dante accomplished, we were just stating the facts that Carthage had an amazing set of running backs come through during that stretch.  Plus you missed to see the point that during the time of which Burris and Baker played Carthage was not as good in the overall team category.  Its alot easier to stop a great running back when you don't have the players on both sides of the ball to compliment him.

[redman04]

Hello everybody.

Regarding the discussion on how great Baker and Burris were and the comment, “The Option is like Novocain; just give it time and it works!” I need to make a few points. 

Although both Baker and Burris very good division 3 football players, let’s examine what they did when it counted the most:

Randal Baker, 2002 (4-6, 3-4 CCIW)

Vs. Wheaton (conference champs)
   96 yards on 26 carries (long 30)
   0 TDs
   36-6 loss

Vs. Augustana
   Stats aren’t available – 34-28 loss

Vs. Wesleyan*
   112 yards on 34 carries (Long 14)
   2 TDs
   21-20 win

*Average 6-4 Wesleyan team with losses to Wheaton, Augie, Milikin and Carthage

Kevin Burris, 1999 (5-4, 4-3 in CCIW)

Vs. Augustana (conference champs)
   stats aren’t available, 31-9 loss

Vs. Wheaton
   46 yards on 18 carries (long 21)
   0 TDs
   30-14 loss

Vs. Wesleyan
   stats aren’t available, 44-27 loss

I admire your love for your players, but it’s a lot of hype…

You guys are talking about the wrong guys.  No RB statistically speaking has done more for Carthage in the last 10 years (maybe ever?) then Dante Washington did in 2004.  Even with a shutout against Augie and a loss against Mount Union, only with the statistics below can you accurately covet your beloved RBs as you have in the previous posts.

RUSHING              GP-GS  Att Gain Loss  Net   Avg  TD Long Avg/G
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Washington, Dante    13-13  463 2094  104 1990   4.3  14   64 153.1

I think you missed the point of my post.  Here it is again....

People do tend to forget how good Burris was.  In those days (the start of the Rucks era) we had half the the talent of most teams we played.  Our offense at the time was pretty tricky to figure out..... Triple option right, triple option left.  That's it, but as coach Boone said (from Remember The Titans).... The Option is like Novocain; just give it time and it works!  And some how we managed to put together 3 consecutive winning seasons on sure toughness rather than talent, Burris was a big part of that.  Personally I think that those are the years were Carthage got it’s unfair rep of being a dirty team.

Never said Burris was the best of all time or that the option was great.  I said people forget how good he was.  He was good and the comment about the option (Novocain) was a joke.  We were not a talented team, like the 2004 was and our coaches tried to put us in the best possible position to win by running the option.  My point was that he was a very good back(4 time First team All -CCIW), on a very average team and one of the big reason that Carthage did win games was because of Kevin Burris.
I never compared him to Dante.  They were two totally different kinds of players, but if I was forced to choose I think I would take Dante.

[redman04]

I'm not taking sides in what looks to be an interesting intra-Carthage debate, just providing some of the missing info:

1999 vs. Augie
Kevin Burris: 12 carries, 35 yards, 1 TD

2002 vs. Augie
Randall Baker: 21 carries, 55 yards, 0 TD

2004 vs. Augie (35-0, Augie)
Dante Washington: 23 carries, 107 yards, 0 TD

With the exception of 1996, no Carthage team in the past 30 years has had luck against Augie! 

[red99]

Ah, the win in '96. Homecoming...oh what a night!

[redman04]

Ah, the win in '96. Homecoming...oh what a night!

One Hell of A Night! 

[burly]

Hello everybody.

Regarding the discussion on how great Baker and Burris were and the comment, "The Option is like Novocain; just give it time and it works!" I need to make a few points. 

Although both Baker and Burris very good division 3 football players, let's examine what they did when it counted the most:

Randal Baker, 2002 (4-6, 3-4 CCIW)

Vs. Wheaton (conference champs)
   96 yards on 26 carries (long 30)
   0 TDs
   36-6 loss

Vs. Augustana
   Stats aren't available – 34-28 loss

Vs. Wesleyan*
   112 yards on 34 carries (Long 14)
   2 TDs
   21-20 win

*Average 6-4 Wesleyan team with losses to Wheaton, Augie, Milikin and Carthage

Kevin Burris, 1999 (5-4, 4-3 in CCIW)

Vs. Augustana (conference champs)
   stats aren't available, 31-9 loss

Vs. Wheaton
   46 yards on 18 carries (long 21)
   0 TDs
   30-14 loss

Vs. Wesleyan
   stats aren't available, 44-27 loss

I admire your love for your players, but it's a lot of hype...

You guys are talking about the wrong guys.  No RB statistically speaking has done more for Carthage in the last 10 years (maybe ever?) then Dante Washington did in 2004.  Even with a shutout against Augie and a loss against Mount Union, only with the statistics below can you accurately covet your beloved RBs as you have in the previous posts.

RUSHING              GP-GS  Att Gain Loss  Net   Avg  TD Long Avg/G
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Washington, Dante    13-13  463 2094  104 1990   4.3  14   64 153.1

I think you missed the point of my post.  Here it is again....

People do tend to forget how good Burris was.  In those days (the start of the Rucks era) we had half the the talent of most teams we played.  Our offense at the time was pretty tricky to figure out..... Triple option right, triple option left.  That's it, but as coach Boone said (from Remember The Titans).... The Option is like Novocain; just give it time and it works!  And some how we managed to put together 3 consecutive winning seasons on sure toughness rather than talent, Burris was a big part of that.  Personally I think that those are the years were Carthage got it's unfair rep of being a dirty team.

Never said Burris was the best of all time or that the option was great.  I said people forget how good he was.  He was good and the comment about the option (Novocain) was a joke.  We were not a talented team, like the 2004 was and our coaches tried to put us in the best possible position to win by running the option.  My point was that he was a very good back(4 time First team All -CCIW), on a very average team and one of the big reason that Carthage did win games was because of Kevin Burris.
I never compared him to Dante.  They were two totally different kinds of players, but if I was forced to choose I think I would take Dante.

What were Burris' culmative individual statistics in 1999?

[redman04]

What were Burris' culmative individual statistics in 1999?

I wouldn't even know where to find that.  I think you're reaching for a debate, when their really isn't one.  What will his 1999 stats tell you, That Dante was better in 2004?  No disagrees with that.

[burly]

What were Burris' culmative individual statistics in 1999?

I wouldn't even know where to find that.  I think you're reaching for a debate, when their really isn't one.  What will his 1999 stats tell you, That Dante was better in 2004?  No disagrees with that.

No, they will tell us that he really wasn't that good...

[Mugsy]

What were Burris' culmative individual statistics in 1999?

I wouldn't even know where to find that.  I think you're reaching for a debate, when their really isn't one.  What will his 1999 stats tell you, That Dante was better in 2004?  No disagrees with that.

No, they will tell us that he really wasn't that good...

Stats aren't everything...

[redman04]

What were Burris' culmative individual statistics in 1999?

I wouldn't even know where to find that.  I think you're reaching for a debate, when their really isn't one.  What will his 1999 stats tell you, That Dante was better in 2004?  No disagrees with that.

No, they will tell us that he really wasn't that good...

Compaired to who?  I do not think that the CCIW coaches hand out first team all cciw to some people who shouldn't get it.  

Here's what I can tell you.  In 1999 Carthage had one of the worst offenses in the conference, a QB by committee (freshman Pat Brown ended up with it), and everyone knew that Burris was the only option.  He still managed to be 1st or 2nd  in rushing and first in scoring.  Does that make him an All American? No, but like I have said, he was a very good back on a very average team. 

[TrueAugieAlum]

Looks as if all is NOT well in Augie Camp 07.  Big blowup this week with one of the starters quitting the team.  And if he truly did not quit he should be tossed for his actions.
Not sure what percipitated the confrontation between said player (NAME WITHHELD HERE) and coach (from what has been reported the kid just blew), but this will be a true test for Coach Barnes to show the necessary disipline that is required in the situation.

After the meltdown of last season, with most of the team ready to quit over coaching decisions, the blowup is not all that surprising.  If you think I have bad karma, you have not seen anything.  The Augie coaching staff is reeking bad karma right now.

From my vantage point not sure the team has the heart this year!  But who knows, this could be the catalyst to inspire.

[AV]

Misinformed on so many levels.  The young man who chose to quit through actions of his own was far from a starter.

One should be careful to post if one doesn't know the true facts. 

Attitude is great in Augie camp.

It is evident to all who post, through TrueAugieAlum's posts the last year that he has some hidden ax to grind, and isn't a "TrueAugieAlum".

[Mugsy]

Misinformed on so many levels.  The young man who chose to quit through actions of his own was far from a starter.

One should be careful to post if one doesn't know the true facts. 

Attitude is great in Augie camp.

It is evident to all who post, through TrueAugieAlum's posts the last year that he has some hidden ax to grind, and isn't a "TrueAugieAlum".

AV aka...

79  Blaine Westemeyer*  OL  6-5  262  So.  Overland Park, Kan.  Blue Valley Northwest