FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Smithfan]

Jake Smith got in the first game last week against Carroll as a freshman and turned in 53 yards on 11 carries and blocked well.  I'm looking forward to Saturday vs. Lakeland.  Just hope he gets more touches.

[ncc58]

Usee,

A report was written by New Tradition back on August 26. So, stop complaining. 

Alright, now that I'm back in town, I'll give you guys some of my thoughts on the North Central/Olivet scrimmage.

QB – The top 2 quarterbacks, Fanthorpe and Kniss, rotated every other play, which was nice because we were able to see both qb's with the first team in just about every situation.  All in all, I believe that Fanthrope had the edge.  His throws were a bit more accurate, and it seemed to me that he had better command and control of the offense.  I am sure that this is a product of the year that he has already spent in the system, learning the plays, etc.  Not to say that Kniss did poorly.  He made some nice throws as well, however, I believe that Fanthorpe just made more of them.

RB – This is where I believe the majority of the Cardinal offense will come from this year.  Both backs, Sulo and Izzy Brown, looked fantastic running the football.  There was a good amount of yardage gained straight up the middle, several 8 and 10 yard chunks.  There was even use of a pretty decent sized fullback named Champion (I'm sorry, but that has to be the coolest last name ever) in a few of the sets.

WR – From what I saw, the wide outs ran crisp routes, but I have to say that I did not pay attention to them because I was watching the quarterbacks.  I know that many balls were caught, but there were no stellar catches or runs after the catch.  They seemed to pretty much do their job, but nothing out of the ordinary.  I do know, however, that #1 receiver Perry Welch did not dress for the scrimmage.

OL – The offensive line looked very good overall.  There was a good surge when the ball was handed off, but what really impressed me was the time that they gave the quarterbacks to throw the football.  It seemed like no matter what blitzes Olivet threw at them, they had an answer for all of it and picked everything up.  I know the Offensive Line Coach, Ponx, always worked very hard on the o-line knowing their assignments for the different blitzes that teams throw at them from week to week.  Also, a sophomore named Delancy took the spot of Scott Plamer, the right tackle who chose not to come back, and did very well.  I also did not realize until yesterday, the Ryan Armstrong also did not come back.  He saw a significant amount of time on the o-line, but decided that he wanted to concentrate on track.

Offense overall – While it is obvious that the Cardinals will not have the high-octane air attack that Kam Kniss provided (at least until the quarterback(s) get a better grip on the offense) I believe that they can still score by a more balanced attack and involving the running game more than they had in the past 2 years.

DL – Only having 3 down linemen translates to a lot of depth for the Cards.  Look for them to rotate a lot and have a lot of fresh bodies.  The D-line played very tough and had several tackles for loss and sacks.

LB – The linebackers impressed me the most in this 3-3 scheme.  I know that they proclaim this to be an attacking defense, and that is exactly what they did.  For several series, Olivet was unable to pick up many blitzes while they were in pass protection and the LB's were able to get a few sacks and put a ton of pressure on the qb.  The 2 outside linebackers, Kostellic and Hammers, are both seniors with a lot of experience, and in the middle, they have Wenger, a sophomore who saw a fair amount of action last year.  Hammers, to me, looked like he made more plays than anyone.  He was all over the field.  Wenger had a few monster hits, though.

DB – Kind of tough to go wrong when you have 5 of them.  I did see kind of a Jekyll and Hyde with the DB's.  Several times they were in excellent position and defended well – thrown balls, and even made a few picks, but there were many other times when the Olivet receivers were able to find soft spots and catch the ball completely undefended.  Jordan Hoffman and Tyler Venier looked very good and had interceptions, but aside from that there was nothing out of the ordinary.

Defense overall – Going into this scrimmage I was very skeptical about the 3-3-5.  I'm still not completely sold on it, but I have a slightly better feeling about it than I did before.  It was very effective for the first few series, but eventually Olivet figured out what they were doing and was able to move the ball.  From the stands, it looks like they gamble a LOT with some of the blitz schemes that they run.  Talking to a few players after the scrimmage, one told me that it looks that way, but there are a lot of checks involved based upon the formation that the offense lines up in, and their tendencies out of certain formations, so its not as big of a gamble as it appears.  All that being said, Olivet did only put the ball in the endzone 1 time during the entire scrimmage with about a minute left to go.

Special teams – I will say that the special team that impressed me the most was Kickoff return.  Joe Mastrino had several excellent returns that put the Cards in great field position.  Joe Rubin, the other returner, did not dress for the scrimmage.  I have been coaching football at the high school level this season, and watching the kick returns almost looked like watching film in fast forward.  It is amazing how much faster things happen on the college level!

Team overall – I think that the Cards dominated the scrimmage, early on especially.  Once Olivet settled in and figured out the new defense, things evened out a bit.  As the scrimmage progressed, it became evident that Olivet had been in camp for 2 weeks as opposed to the Cards 5 days because the Cards seemed to lack conditioning, to me.  All in all, it was fun to watch and I am excited to see what happens in the CCIW this year!

[Pat Coleman]

SmithFan

I am sure that Jake Smith is a good back but the Lakeland team did see Justin Beaver from UWW, one of the top Senior running backs in D3. Justin put up over 120 yards on Lakeland, If Jake is that good he should put up more than that on Lakeland. I will wait till after the game to compare the two, since I have only seen one.

And Beaver hasn't played the whole game against Lakeland even once in his career.

[redman04]

Incorrect.  I like the way Kevin Burris played.  Downhill, shoulders square, attacking the line of scrimmage - every yard counted for that kid.  However, I joined this board to bring substance to the conversations.  And, sometimes that means holding people accountable to weak, emotionally filled comments.

Which brings me back the original debate….

Thank you for holding me accountable.  I am weak and emotional! 

Again, let me make this clear one more time, because it has gotten a little old.  Quote stats all you want, but Burris was a very good back on a very average team.  He was first team all cciw 4x. 

[redman04]

2007 CCIW Football Players of the Week

Offensive Player of the Week
Emmanuel Minter - Millikin (9/1/07)

Defensive Player of the Week
Kyle Maple - Elmhurst (9/1/07)

Special Teams Player of the Week
Tyler Lomnicki - Elmhurst (9/1/07)

[burly]

Incorrect.  I like the way Kevin Burris played.  Downhill, shoulders square, attacking the line of scrimmage - every yard counted for that kid.  However, I joined this board to bring substance to the conversations.  And, sometimes that means holding people accountable to weak, emotionally filled comments.

Which brings me back the original debate....

Thank you for holding me accountable.  I am weak and emotional! 

Again, let me make this clear one more time, because it has gotten a little old.  Quote stats all you want, but Burris was a very good back on a very average team.  He was first team all cciw 4x. 

Ok, but when you wonder why people have forgotten how good he was, review the stats, they won't change over time. 

[redman04]

Incorrect.  I like the way Kevin Burris played.  Downhill, shoulders square, attacking the line of scrimmage - every yard counted for that kid.  However, I joined this board to bring substance to the conversations.  And, sometimes that means holding people accountable to weak, emotionally filled comments.

Which brings me back the original debate....

Thank you for holding me accountable.  I am weak and emotional! 

Again, let me make this clear one more time, because it has gotten a little old.  Quote stats all you want, but Burris was a very good back on a very average team.  He was first team all cciw 4x. 

Ok, but when you wonder why people have forgotten how good he was, review the stats, they won't change over time. 

Will do,  Thanks!

[old 40]

Pat

You missed the point. Smith fan commented that Lakeland had not seen the likes of Jake Smith. They have seen up close and personal Justin Beaver for the last 3 years. My point is lakeland has seen the likes of a good runningback(Beaver), IMO one of the tops in D3. I thought it was a little early in a Freshman runningbacks career to make the claim that someone has not seen the likes of Jake Smith. He may be better than Beaver and Kmic, but after one game it might be a tad early for that prediction.

Your right Justin played the first half and half of the 3rd Qtr. The Jones/Beaver dual was way to much for Lakeland. They were very impressive.

[Pat Coleman]

My point was that those numbers he put up (120 yards in and of itself isn't a drop-dead gorgeous rushing total) were in less than a full game. It was for Smith fan's benefit.

[Comet 14]

Billy Pilgrim: In your original "complaint" about Burris you stated and I quote " I bet we could talk about 20+ RBs across the league that ( statistically ) are better than Burris". First your list does not list 20 different RBs statistically better than Burris and apparently scoring is no longer a relavent statistic. So maybe you should be held accountable for your statements.

[burly]

Billy Pilgrim: In your original "complaint" about Burris you stated and I quote " I bet we could talk about 20+ RBs across the league that ( statistically ) are better than Burris". First your list does not list 20 different RBs statistically better than Burris and apparently scoring is no longer a relavent statistic. So maybe you should be held accountable for your statements.

LOL - Sorry, to be more specific, it includes 18 selections over the past 8 years.  And you are correct, some selections more than one year - the same RB.  But, every selection is stastically superior to Burris by yards and all purpose yards.  Keep in mind this doesn't include 2nd Team selections except for Chorney in 1999, so just maybe, maybe with those included we could reach 20. 

Scoring is important, but even with 8 TDs, Burris is one above the average from '99 to '06.   I'd be interested to see how FBs skew this deviation, but whatever.

I apologize for putting out the flames Comet, but what Galaxy are you in?

[Pat Coleman]

What I find interesting in this discussion is that BP is insistent on talking about Burris compared statistically to players against whom he didn't compete, whereas Comet is talking about Burris in the only context in which he did compete. In that context, the coaches voted him first-team All-CCIW.

When you guys are doing talking apples and oranges, please pass the fruit salad.

[NCC_alum62]

What I find interesting in this discussion is that BP is insistent on talking about Burris compared statistically to players against whom he didn't compete, whereas Comet is talking about Burris in the only context in which he did compete. In that context, the coaches voted him first-team All-CCIW.

When you guys are doing talking apples and oranges, please pass the fruit salad.

ZING

Yeah the Burris talk is getting old BP. 

Lets focus on the now...couple big games this week.  I hope Auggie wins against BW but I don't think it will happen BW has a top notch defense in the OAC and judging the Auggie O against the Highlanders last week isn't really a good judge of talent.  Not to knock on Mac too much but they are not a good football team right now with all of the off-the-field problems and coaching changes.

Any Auggie posters at the game last week?

[Mugsy]

What I find interesting in this discussion is that BP is insistent on talking about Burris compared statistically to players against whom he didn't compete, whereas Comet is talking about Burris in the only context in which he did compete. In that context, the coaches voted him first-team All-CCIW.

When you guys are doing talking apples and oranges, please pass the fruit salad.

ZING

Yeah the Burris talk is getting old BP. 

Lets focus on the now...couple big games this week.  I hope Auggie wins against BW but I don't think it will happen BW has a top notch defense in the OAC and judging the Auggie O against the Highlanders last week isn't really a good judge of talent.  Not to knock on Mac too much but they are not a good football team right now with all of the off-the-field problems and coaching changes.

Any Auggie posters at the game last week?

Furthermore no matter what argument is used (statistical or otherwise), it is apparent that there will be no changing current opinion. 

Yes... BP finally went out and took the time to do some research to support his view - which is good.  Yes you can make some inferences from the statistics, but it is incomplete in my mind.  I don't think you can argue the relative "greatness" solely based on statistics across a 10 year block of time.  There are other factors.

Coaches voted him All-CCIW multiple times so he was one of the best backs during that era.  Do we really want to spend the time debating/haggling if he is the 16th best back since 1999, or the 13th, or the 21st, or etc... 

Personally I'd rather focus on the current season and slate of games for this week.

[Mugsy]

Any Auggie posters at the game last week?

dansand gave a quick report back on page 735 and then again on page 738.

Per dansand:

I think it's pretty much just one poster that's been particularly negative about Augie. 

Like I said earlier, it was hard to tell too much from their dismantling of a really bad MacMurray team. The running game looked very sharp and they didn't put the ball on the ground a single time (their only fumble was by their backup punt returner). That's especially encouraging considering it was the season opener. McGinnis looked very good in the ground game, but his passing is still a big question mark. He missed a couple of wide open receivers badly. Interestingly, they ran a series out of the spread/shotgun, although I'm not sure they attempted any passes from it.

Defensively they looked good, controlling the line of scrimmage and forcing four turnovers, but, again, you have to consider the competition.

I would say special teams were also a positive. I was concerned about the loss of Josh Patterson, but both of the guys recplacing him, placekicker Ryan Gibbons and punter Andy Klink, looked good. Obviously Klink didn't get a lot of punting action.

I'm sure most of the "action" will go towards B-W, primarily because of how they handled Augie's ground game last year. Hopefully Saturday will play out differently.