FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[burly]

What I find interesting in this discussion is that BP is insistent on talking about Burris compared statistically to players against whom he didn't compete, whereas Comet is talking about Burris in the only context in which he did compete. In that context, the coaches voted him first-team All-CCIW.

When you guys are doing talking apples and oranges, please pass the fruit salad.

ZING

Yeah the Burris talk is getting old BP. 

Lets focus on the now...couple big games this week.  I hope Auggie wins against BW but I don't think it will happen BW has a top notch defense in the OAC and judging the Auggie O against the Highlanders last week isn't really a good judge of talent.  Not to knock on Mac too much but they are not a good football team right now with all of the off-the-field problems and coaching changes.

Any Auggie posters at the game last week?

Furthermore no matter what argument is used (statistical or otherwise), it is apparent that there will be no changing current opinion. 

Yes... BP finally went out and took the time to do some research to support his view - which is good.  Yes you can make some inferences from the statistics, but it is incomplete in my mind.  I don't think you can argue the relative "greatness" solely based on statistics across a 10 year block of time.  There are other factors.

Coaches voted him All-CCIW multiple times so he was one of the best backs during that era.  Do we really want to spend the time debating/haggling if he is the 16th best back since 1999, or the 13th, or the 21st, or etc... 

Personally I'd rather focus on the current season and slate of games for this week.

"Other factors" than your game performance...  interesting.

Anyway, thanks Mugsy.  I'm on to the slate of games for this week.

[Mugsy]

"Other factors" than your game performance...  interesting.

Anyway, thanks Mugsy.  I'm on to the slate of games for this week.

So I say "other factors" and you immediately infer I mean something other than game performance?  Come on... what do you think I mean?  How he looks in the uniform?  How well he ran in pre-game warmups?  How many kids he had ask him for autographs after the game?

I'm sensing if it isn't in statistics, it is meaningless to you. 

How does the level of proficiency in blocking show up in the statistics you offer?  How does yards after initial contact show up in the statistics? These are a few examples of what I mean by "other factors" that don't show up in the statistics, but are recognized by opposing players and coaches.  Furthermore how can you stay that a running back from 4 years later on a completely different team, with a much better O-line that results in 150 yards more rushing, with all certainty makes that RB better?

Clearly he excelled both as a tough, hard-nosed runner to get the tough yards, despite a less talented O-line than in recent years, along with numerous intangibles.  Enough so to warrant opposing CCIW coaches to award him All-CCIW honors 4 years running.

Anyhow... thanks for taking the time to compile the stats.

[RedmenBigD]

Pat congrats on the merger, anything to help get D3 athletics more positive exposure the better.

[burly]

"Other factors" than your game performance...  interesting.

Anyway, thanks Mugsy.  I'm on to the slate of games for this week.

So I say "other factors" and you immediately infer I mean something other than game performance?  Come on... what do you think I mean?  How he looks in the uniform?  How well he ran in pre-game warmups?  How many kids he had ask him for autographs after the game?

I'm sensing if it isn't in statistics, it is meaningless to you. 

How does the level of proficiency in blocking show up in the statistics you offer?  How does yards after initial contact show up in the statistics? These are a few examples of what I mean by "other factors" that don't show up in the statistics, but are recognized by opposing players and coaches.  Furthermore how can you stay that a running back from 4 years later on a completely different team, with a much better O-line that results in 150 yards more rushing, with all certainty makes that RB better?

Clearly he excelled both as a tough, hard-nosed runner to get the tough yards, despite a less talented O-line than in recent years, along with numerous intangibles.  Enough so to warrant opposing CCIW coaches to award him All-CCIW honors 4 years running.

Anyhow... thanks for taking the time to compile the stats.

Point taken.  But now we know why "people tend to forget how good Burris was."

Thanks for giving credit for the compilation.  It's interesting what you can take away from a sample of data that size.

Two quick questions:
1. How does pick'ems work?
2. What moves your karma?

[CardinalAlum]

must be getting senile in my old age like mugsy.

You've got little to worry about, old age is just one of many causes of my senility (dealing with CardinalAlum is the primary cause).

[CardinalAlum]

Two quick questions:
1. How does pick'ems work?
2. What moves your karma?

Answer:  Most of your posts!!   8)

[burly]

Two quick questions:
1. How does pick'ems work?
2. What moves your karma?

Answer:  Most of your posts!!   8)

Understood, but who controls your karma meter?  Can everybody give and take away?

[CardinalAlum]

Two quick questions:
1. How does pick'ems work?
2. What moves your karma?

Answer:  Most of your posts!!   8)

Understood, but who controls your karma meter?  Can everybody give and take away?

Mugsy does!  He has been exalted as the Grand Poobah of the CCIW football room.  If he disagrees with what you say, he knocks you down a peg or 6! 

[Mugsy]

Point taken.  But now we know why "people tend to forget how good Burris was."

Thanks for giving credit for the compilation.  It's interesting what you can take away from a sample of data that size.

Two quick questions:
1. How does pick'ems work?
2. What moves your karma?

I agree on both points...

How easy it is to forget how good some players are, even more so for players whose efforts never show explicitly in statistics.  O-Linemen the most obvious...  You will hear from time to time the "older" posters go on and on about certain players, many whom you will never see in the record books.

I also agree that you can infer a lot from a sampling of statistics, but it just doesn't tell the whole story or it doesn't always state certainty.

Now for the CCIW Pick-Em's, go to page 68 over on the CCIW Pick-Em's board and look at reply #1006.  It gives all the rules on how to play.  Then take a look at the picks made by others.  If you have any questions, drop me an email.

As for karma, those who have over 200 posts can either give you 1 point or take one away based on what merit they feel your post have.

[CardinalAlum]

Two quick questions:
1. How does pick'ems work?
2. What moves your karma?

Answer:  Most of your posts!!   8)

Understood, but who controls your karma meter?  Can everybody give and take away?

In all seriousness:
http://www.d3football.com/faq.php?answer&category=Message%20board&id=34

The above link should answer your question.  As Pat always says, "there is more to this site than just the message boards."  Try it some time!  How's that Pat?

[Mugsy]

Two quick questions:
1. How does pick'ems work?
2. What moves your karma?

Answer:  Most of your posts!!   8)

Understood, but who controls your karma meter?  Can everybody give and take away?

Mugsy does!  He has been exalted as the Grand Poobah of the CCIW football room.  If he disagrees with what you say, he knocks you down a peg or 6! 

If that were truly the case, would your karma be a +81?   

[CardinalAlum]

Two quick questions:
1. How does pick'ems work?
2. What moves your karma?

Answer:  Most of your posts!!   8)

Understood, but who controls your karma meter?  Can everybody give and take away?

Mugsy does!  He has been exalted as the Grand Poobah of the CCIW football room.  If he disagrees with what you say, he knocks you down a peg or 6! 

If that were truly the case, would your karma be a +81?   

Now that was funny!  And of course true! 

[burly]

Point taken.  But now we know why "people tend to forget how good Burris was."

Thanks for giving credit for the compilation.  It's interesting what you can take away from a sample of data that size.

Two quick questions:
1. How does pick'ems work?
2. What moves your karma?

I agree on both points...

How easy it is to forget how good some players are, even more so for players whose efforts never show explicitly in statistics.  O-Linemen the most obvious...  You will hear from time to time the "older" posters go on and on about certain players, many whom you will never see in the record books.

I also agree that you can infer a lot from a sampling of statistics, but it just doesn't tell the whole story or it doesn't always state certainty.

Now for the CCIW Pick-Em's, go to page 68 over on the CCIW Pick-Em's board and look at reply #1006.  It gives all the rules on how to play.  Then take a look at the picks made by others.  If you have any questions, drop me an email.

As for karma, those who have over 200 posts can either give you 1 point or take one away based on what merit they feel your post have.

Thanks Mugsy.  I've been reading this board for sometime, just never participated regularly.  Finally, this year I decided to change that.

Hmmm....200 posts and I've reached the liberation of Nirvana.

[CardinalAlum]

Hmmm....200 posts and I've reached the liberation of Nirvana.

Hmmm....over 1100 posts and I still find myself reaching for the libations of the Lantern!

[Pat Coleman]

Pat congrats on the merger, anything to help get D3 athletics more positive exposure the better.

Thanks -- but not a merger, just a working partnership for broadcasting. I don't have the wherewithal to purchase D3cast.

I might say one more thing about the 1999 season -- remember it was the last year that the CCIW limited its schools to nine games instead of the Division III standard of 10.