FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

Agree - Both Carthage and Elmhurst a light years ahead of NP.  But, I think this is the year NP steals one and it will happen against Carthage, Elmhurst or Milikin (in that order of most likely to least likely).

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: While there would be nobody more pleased to see NPU win a conference game this season than me, I just don't see it happening.

Last season the Vikings were clobbered against all three opponents:

Millikin 36, @ NPU 6
@ Carthage 52, NPU 7
Elmhurst 24, @ NPU 7

This was the distribution of total offensive yards, first downs, and turnovers:

Millikin	244	14	2	/	NPU	121	10	5
Carthage	364	20	2	/	NPU	153	12	5
Elmhurst	339	15	2	/	NPU	106	8	4

What I'm looking for is for the Vikings to close the gap in all of these categories. If North Park gives up fewer yards and first downs, gains more yards and first downs, turns the ball over less, forces more turnovers, and makes those excruciatingly lopsided final margins on the scoreboard a bit closer, then NPU will be seen as having made noticeable forward progress.

NPU's performance against North Central, as seen in contrast to how the Vikings performed against NCC last season, illustrates what I'm talking about. In 2006 NCC beat NPU by 44 points (58-14), outgained the Vikings 503 yards to 302, out-first-downed the Vikings 25 to 14, and gave up only one turnover to NPU's three. This past week, NCC beat NPU by 27 points (61-34), gained fewer yards than the Vikings (394-428), and the Cards had fewer first downs than did the royal blue and gold (19-20). The one category in which NPU failed to improve was turnovers. North Park coughed up the ball five times, while North Central didn't cough it up at all -- and that was the most significant reason why the Cards won the game.

It's simply asking too much of NPU to expect the Vikes to win a CCIW game this year. The players and coaches will disagree with me, no doubt, as well they should. If you don't go into a football game thinking that you have at least a tiny chance to win if you play your best, then why strap on the gear? (see: Appalachian State vs. Michigan) The Vikings don't have either the quality manpower (in sufficient numbers) or the experience yet to go toe-to-toe with their conference foes. But I think that they are getting closer, and if they can continue to pare the final scoring margin and the statistical imbalances from their horrid outcomes against CCIW foes last season (and for numerous seasons before that), then we will have seen real progress in Scott Pethtel's second season at the helm for the Vikings. Then, in 2008, we might be able to envision NPU winning one or more CCIW football games.

[redman04]

Yes I do.  On what basis, I'll get back to you.

Agree - Both Carthage and Elmhurst a light years ahead of NP.  But, I think this is the year NP steals one and it will happen against Carthage, Elmhurst or Milikin (in that order of most likely to least likely).

What kinda dope are you smoking???  NPU, although much improved, not going to beat any of those three.  Sorry to say!  For some reason you think Elmhurst and Carthage are that bad for what reason?  Have you seen them play?  Have you seen NPU play?

Last thing, despite Elmhurst beating Carthage this year, I might offer that Carthage beating Augie is a better bet than Elmhurst beating Augie.  Carthage, traditionally speaking, plays Augie tough.

Carthage does have a better shot, because it is a home game. Kenosha is a tough place to play.

[ncc58]

On Home Field Advantage ...

I think that some of the factors that lead to home field advantage may have lessened in the last 5 years or so. One factor is playing surfaces. You used to see tremendous variances in the grass fields at different schools. As more schools go to Field Turf or Astro Play, it's like playing at home. A second factor is you're starting to see more schools schedule night games. I used to think the playing night games at North Central was an advantage since we played 4 night games each season and other teams played just one. Playing a night game takes you out of your routine.

I always felt that Millikin and Augie had a huge home field advantage. I felt that the road game disadvantage was mitigated by the face that almost all their road games were long bus rides. The trip from Naperville to Millikin was much worse than the trip to Rock Island. Just my thoughts.

[ncc58]

I was going to say that Marcus Dunlop is pretty darn good. Then, I looked at his stats - 83 attempts for 230 yards and a 2.8 average. What happened here?

After his 136 yard, 2 TD performance vs Augustana, there seems to be a lot of excitement around IWU football about 6-0/205 freshman Bo Lanter (Clayton, Mo.).   Athletically, the kid is really special -- he bench presses 375 and runs a legit 4.3 40.   People who have been around the program a long time seem to think Lanter has a chance to be IWU's best running back ever, and the Titans have had some good ones.

We'll see how it plays out but it is nice to see

When was the last time an RB from IWU made 1st Team All-CCIW?  It has to be before 1999.

correct. I can't remember if Deon Hornsby was 1st team or not but it would have been around 1996. since then there have been a few 2nd teamers (Marcus Dunlop in 2006, Aaron Telford in 2001, Max Millincovich in 2000). IWU is much more well known for their Qb's and recievers than rb's over the years.

[matblake]

I always felt that Millikin and Augie had a huge home field advantage. I felt that the road game disadvantage was mitigated by the face that almost all their road games were long bus rides. The trip from Naperville to Millikin was much worse than the trip to Rock Island. Just my thoughts.

That trip to Millikin was always a killer.  I remember going down there for wrestling meets.  You think you would be ready to compete after staring a flat land for 2 hours while sitting in a van, instead you just want to lay down and go to sleep.

[matblake]

I was going to say that Marcus Dunlop is pretty darn good. Then, I looked at his stats - 83 attempts for 230 yards and a 2.8 average. What happened here?

After his 136 yard, 2 TD performance vs Augustana, there seems to be a lot of excitement around IWU football about 6-0/205 freshman Bo Lanter (Clayton, Mo.).   Athletically, the kid is really special -- he bench presses 375 and runs a legit 4.3 40.   People who have been around the program a long time seem to think Lanter has a chance to be IWU's best running back ever, and the Titans have had some good ones.

We'll see how it plays out but it is nice to see

When was the last time an RB from IWU made 1st Team All-CCIW?  It has to be before 1999.

correct. I can't remember if Deon Hornsby was 1st team or not but it would have been around 1996. since then there have been a few 2nd teamers (Marcus Dunlop in 2006, Aaron Telford in 2001, Max Millincovich in 2000). IWU is much more well known for their Qb's and recievers than rb's over the years.

According to the CCIW website, Marcus Dunlop rushed for 103 times for 421 yards for a 4.1 average.   

[RedmenBigD]

Yes I do.  On what basis, I'll get back to you.

Agree - Both Carthage and Elmhurst a light years ahead of NP.  But, I think this is the year NP steals one and it will happen against Carthage, Elmhurst or Milikin (in that order of most likely to least likely).

Whatever it is you are on I want some, because have no clue what is going on.  And you wonder why your karma takes hits, that comment might be why...

[ncc58]

Where are you looking, because I see the following at cciw.org?

2007 College Conference of Illinois & Wiscons Individual Statistics Through games of Oct 01, 2007


RUSHING            Team Cl  G  Att  Yds   Avg TD Long Yds/G
-----------------------------------------------------------
1. Sulo, Dominic.. NCC  SO  4  102  584   5.7  9   31 146.0
2. West, Kelvyn... NPU  SO  4  103  514   5.0  4   66 128.5
3. Jackson, Brett. WHEA SR  4   57  269   4.7  0   51  67.2
4. Galliart, Josh. AUGI JR  4   45  243   5.4  2   34  60.8
5. Dunlop, Marcus. IWU  SR  4   83  230   2.8  1   17  57.5

I was going to say that Marcus Dunlop is pretty darn good. Then, I looked at his stats - 83 attempts for 230 yards and a 2.8 average. What happened here?

According to the CCIW website, Marcus Dunlop rushed for 103 times for 421 yards for a 4.1 average.   

[79jaybird]

I think Billy Pilgrim needs to find a new ship to sail on.     His Mayflower ship is making him see images that are far from reality.

Billy, I agree and have said many times on the air that I would LOVE North Park to get their football team to the level of the other 7 schools and make this an 8 team dogfight, however they are not at that level presently. 

So I think the majority of us agree that Wheaton is still the predicted frontrunner, but second place (and an outside shot at the NCAA's) is up for grabs.  I think AC/EC/CAR/NC (and not necessarily in that order) are all equipped to be able to slide into that slot.  Parity indeed,  you gotta love it.

[matblake]

Where are you looking, because I see the following at cciw.org?

2007 College Conference of Illinois & Wiscons Individual Statistics Through games of Oct 01, 2007


RUSHING            Team Cl  G  Att  Yds   Avg TD Long Yds/G
-----------------------------------------------------------
1. Sulo, Dominic.. NCC  SO  4  102  584   5.7  9   31 146.0
2. West, Kelvyn... NPU  SO  4  103  514   5.0  4   66 128.5
3. Jackson, Brett. WHEA SR  4   57  269   4.7  0   51  67.2
4. Galliart, Josh. AUGI JR  4   45  243   5.4  2   34  60.8
5. Dunlop, Marcus. IWU  SR  4   83  230   2.8  1   17  57.5

I was going to say that Marcus Dunlop is pretty darn good. Then, I looked at his stats - 83 attempts for 230 yards and a 2.8 average. What happened here?

According to the CCIW website, Marcus Dunlop rushed for 103 times for 421 yards for a 4.1 average.   

I was looking at the 2006 statistics.  Since the conversation had turned to IWU's all-conference running backs I thought you were talking about last year. 

[Dennis_Prikkel]

in the old days

when North Central started playing night games (1975) it didn't really matter because the Cardinals were no good - after a couple of years they began to have some good teams and it matter a lot because after 1979 no one but North Central played at night.

Carthage's Wisconsin football field - as it was laid out in the late sixties - was almost always a mud-bowl which suited the Redmen's ground oriented attack just fine.  In 1967 they beat North Park 14-0 on that field and held North Park to zero first downs with an outstanding passing tandem of Bruce Swanson and Paul Zaeske, who would set national records together in 1968.  Later Carthage raised the level of the football field and installed adequate drainage - at about the same time their football team started to fade (mid-seventies).

Millikin's football field always resembled a dirt-bowl - in fact the Big Blue used to play some of their home games at St. Teresa which had an all dirt field - try that in 90 degree plus heat like the first game of 1970.  In 1972 on the new football field I arrived two hours early before kickoff to find the groundskeeper watering the field after a week of rain.  He said "the field looked dry" - of course Millikin had a good defense and North Park had a great passing tandem of Gary Duesenberg and Greg Nugent.

I do agree that with these new sports turf fields that groundskeeping certainly plays less of role in game outcomes than it used to.

MW

[matblake]

Millikin's football field always resembled a dirt-bowl - in fact the Big Blue used to play some of their home games at St. Teresa which had an all dirt field

Ugh, looking forward to that would make the trip even more mind numbing......

[Mugsy]

Millikin's football field always resembled a dirt-bowl - in fact the Big Blue used to play some of their home games at St. Teresa which had an all dirt field

Ugh, looking forward to that would make the trip even more mind numbing......

I'm usually really adept at picking up signals based on how people respond... so correct me if I'm wrong.  I'm not sure why I feel this way; I can't put my finger on it, but something tells me your not a real big fan of Decatur.   

[matblake]

Millikin's football field always resembled a dirt-bowl - in fact the Big Blue used to play some of their home games at St. Teresa which had an all dirt field

Ugh, looking forward to that would make the trip even more mind numbing......

I'm usually really adept at picking up signals based on how people respond... so correct me if I'm wrong.  I'm not sure why I feel this way; I can't put my finger on it, but something tells me your not a real big fan of Decatur.   

Decatur isn't so bad, it's the trip there that I am opposed to! 

[matblake]

Video of upcoming Bell game! Dominic Sulo tries to break through the Wheaton defensive line here.