FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[WahooThunder]

Video of upcoming Bell game! Dominic Sulo tries to break through the Wheaton defensive line here.

Nice!  I certainly hope that is what he looks like on Saturday, because unless the glass breaks there is no hope for Naperville.

[Gregory Sager]

I'm usually really adept at picking up signals based on how people respond... so correct me if I'm wrong.  I'm not sure why I feel this way; I can't put my finger on it, but something tells me your not a real big fan of Decatur.   

Is anyone? The best thing about a trip to the so-called Soybean Capital of the World is seeing the "Welcome to Decatur" sign in your rear-view mirror.

[79jaybird]

Decatur:
Hmm, original home of the Chicago Bears. 
Bears current mascot is named Staley (spelling?) because of the original Decatur Statelies.
Citie's major industry:  ADM (Archer Daniels Midland) largest soybean processor in the nation  also Fabric Softeners are made in Decatur
Most interesting-  Home of the Big Blue!  And a division III school which usually has a pretty solid athletic teams in most sports annually.

[ncc58]

Actually, I would say that 1975 marked the return to mediocrity for North Central that lasted almost a decade.

1975 5-3-1
1976 5-3-1
1977 6-3
1978 6-3
1979 6-3
1980 6-3
1982 7-1-1

in the old days

when North Central started playing night games (1975) it didn't really matter because the Cardinals were no good - after a couple of years they began to have some good teams and it matter a lot because after 1979 no one but North Central played at night.

[Mugsy]

Decatur:
Hmm, original home of the Chicago Bears. 
Bears current mascot is named Staley (spelling?) because of the original Decatur Statelies.
Citie's major industry:  ADM (Archer Daniels Midland) largest soybean processor in the nation  also Fabric Softeners are made in Decatur
Most interesting-  Home of the Big Blue!  And a division III school which usually has a pretty solid athletic teams in most sports annually.

Up until Firestone tires began to spontaneously explode on Ford Explorers in the late 90's, I believe there was also a Firestone Tire factory in Decatur.

[usee]

The debate jaybird and I have been having about Elmhurst this weekend brings to mind another topic I have been pondering. When has a team arrived at the top of the conference to be considered one of the best? Clearly Jaybird feels Elmhurst already belongs as he mentions them consistently when speaking of the last few conference champions. Carthage may feel they belong since they have won a conference championship and gone to the playoffs in the last few years. Naperville has a claim as they have been to the playoffs and shared their first CCIW title in forever. Wheaton has lost more to Mt Union than any CCIW team in the last 7 years and Augie has always been at the top of the CCIW.

Clearly a mark of success is the ability to make the NCAA playoffs. whether that's by AQ or pool C if you are in you have won most of your games in the CCIW. But in looking at the process of getting to that point I took the Naperville school as an example. They wallowed in mediocrity for years under previous regimes. they then showed signs of promise and their breakthrough wins were beating Augie in 2004 and Wheaton in 2005. Both of those victories were at home. They came close to beating Augie in Rock Island in 2005 and lost on a last second field goal. They have yet no road wins against any of the last 3 conference champions. Those are hard facts to overlook. So for teams like Naperville, Carthage, and Elmhurst, I think they have to show everyone they can win on the road. Even Carthage hasn't beaten Augie or Wheaton at their place. More importantly, This codifies what I have been feeling about Elmhurst this weekend vs Augie. Elmhurst hasn't shown me a big win at home to indicate they are ready to compete with Augie on the road. I may be wrong and this Saturday they have a chance to change that trend, but history shows that's not how it happens. Now Elmhurst's players don't believe that and they shouldn't, they are certainly talented enough to beat anyone if they play well.

[79jaybird]

Going back in recent history the only "blockbuster" win for Elmhurst was the 22-16 game over Wheaton, which shell shocked everybody, including me who was on the team then. We were so excited we rang the victory all night long, until the Elmhurst police told us to go back to our dorms.  We also had a few "adult apple juice" which (looking back) probably are lucky we didn't spend the night in the comforts of the Elmhurst pokey  .

I agree winning on the road, and in particular winning consistently on the road is the mark of a good ballclub.

Where Usee and I differ is that I don't look at history and past stats as much as looking at the present day.  And this weekend's AC/EC game is pretty even on the papers and should be a great game.  Augie always has the tools in the shed, and this year Elmhurst has the same blend of tools on theirs. Now it boils down to fundamentals and execution.

[cardinaldad]

North Central - nothing until 1975 - so you walked the sideline - the first time they used it in 1975 there was no pressbox just a concrete slab on top of cinderblock box - it was a night game and the lights weren't focused real well.  I remember North Central had a 99-yard scoring drive in the final minute to win the game, compliments of three 15-yard personal fouls on the Millikin Big Blue, all called by umpire Kevin Donlan.

dennis_prikkel - how the heck can you remember the umpires name in that game? Did you know Kevin Donlan?

[cardinaldad]

Going back in recent history the only "blockbuster" win for Elmhurst was the 22-16 game over Wheaton, which shell shocked everybody, including me who was on the team then. We were so excited we rang the victory all night long, until the Elmhurst police told us to go back to our dorms.  We also had a few "adult apple juice" which (looking back) probably are lucky we didn't spend the night in the comforts of the Elmhurst pokey  .

I agree winning on the road, and in particular winning consistently on the road is the mark of a good ballclub.

Where Usee and I differ is that I don't look at history and past stats as much as looking at the present day.  And this weekend's AC/EC game is pretty even on the papers and should be a great game.  Augie always has the tools in the shed, and this year Elmhurst has the same blend of tools on theirs. Now it boils down to fundamentals and execution.

Jaybird - You are and should be positive about YOUR team. I admire that. Those that aren't positive and proud of their teams aren't true fans. (Look at the millions of Cub fans.) I'll agree, Elmhurst has taken some baby steps the last few years. However, Elmhurst has not proven anything yet to be considered in the upper echelon of the CCIW. You have to look at the past to predict the future.  I don't mean any disrespect, but I have been reading this same rhetoric from you for the past few years. When is the team going to prove you right. If you keep repeating yourself year after year, one year you are bound to be prophetic.

[79jaybird]

Cardinaldad- everybody on this board is a homer and positive for their team.   I have seen Elmhurst from a variety of angles as a fan, player, broadcaster, Cabinet member etc.  and know that the Bluejays ARE in the upper half of the league.  If you mean "upper echilon" you mean 1st or 2nd,  I never said anything about that.  I DO know that they have been right there in 4th, 1 "key" win away from 2-3rd place.  So I don't know exactly what you mean here. 

I don't agree with you looking at the past to predict the future.  The past-is just that -passed by- and if you dwell/look at the past that (IMO) is just wasting time.  You cannot go and rewrite the past, rather focus on improving the future... and that is what Elmhurst/Carthage/North Central have done.  All 3 of these schools were sick of being in the back seat to AC/W/IWU/MU all those years (since 1980) and now we are seeing these teams look to the FUTURE and think big.

"When is the team going to prove you right?"  Well, I would say winning a big road game against arch rival Carthage last year was a small step.  2 years ago winning a road game against Millikin was another small step.  You don't go from middle of the pack to the top overnight. (unless you're the Yankees and you can buy your team $$  ), so you have to look at each year as a gradual improvement. 
My goal entering this year was 7 or 8 wins.  We have reached 6 wins 3 of the last 4 years, and 7/8 wins is my immediate goal. 

True fans? Oh yes we are!    CardinalAlum and I had this conversation after NC beat CUW up in Milwaukee for the NCAA's that we both have struggled through some difficult years seeing (other teams) walk all over us. Those days are less frequent a sight.

[cardinaldad]

Cardinaldad- everybody on this board is a homer and positive for their team.   I have seen Elmhurst from a variety of angles as a fan, player, broadcaster, Cabinet member etc.  and know that the Bluejays ARE in the upper half of the league.  If you mean "upper echilon" you mean 1st or 2nd,  I never said anything about that.  I DO know that they have been right there in 4th, 1 "key" win away from 2-3rd place.  So I don't know exactly what you mean here. 

I don't agree with you looking at the past to predict the future.  The past-is just that -passed by- and if you dwell/look at the past that (IMO) is just wasting time.  You cannot go and rewrite the past, rather focus on improving the future... and that is what Elmhurst/Carthage/North Central have done.  All 3 of these schools were sick of being in the back seat to AC/W/IWU/MU all those years (since 1980) and now we are seeing these teams look to the FUTURE and think big.

"When is the team going to prove you right?"  Well, I would say winning a big road game against arch rival Carthage last year was a small step.  2 years ago winning a road game against Millikin was another small step.  You don't go from middle of the pack to the top overnight. (unless you're the Yankees and you can buy your team $$  ), so you have to look at each year as a gradual improvement. 
My goal entering this year was 7 or 8 wins.  We have reached 6 wins 3 of the last 4 years, and 7/8 wins is my immediate goal. 

True fans? Oh yes we are!    CardinalAlum and I had this conversation after NC beat CUW up in Milwaukee for the NCAA's that we both have struggled through some difficult years seeing (other teams) walk all over us. Those days are less frequent a sight.

Jaybird - Everyone on this board is NOT a homer. There are a few posters that bash their teams. I would consider the next step to get into the next level of the CCIW, Elmhurst has to make it to the top four (alone). Everyone used to talk about the top four as IWU, AC, Milikin and Wheaton. The last few years, the top four has changed a bit. During these times, Elmhurst has stayed relatively consistant .
2000 1-6 8th place
2001 1-6 7th place
2002 1-6 7th place
2003 3-4 5th place
2004 1-6 7th place
2005 3-4 5th place
2006 3-4 5th place

Elmhurst is paying better football, no doubt. But obviously, so are some of the other teams in the conference. Some teams have flip-flopped their positions in the standings. Elmhurst has consistently remained in the middle to lower half of the standings. Sorry, IMO Elmhurst has to beat some of the big boys home OR away to make it to the next level of the conference. There have been a few of your posts where you mention challenging for the title and/or competing for second place. To me, that is the upper echelon.
I agree with Usee that you have to look at statistics and the past to evaluate the progress of the present. That's the only thing you have to judge the present against.
Maybe beating Augie this year may not be a big deal if they finish 3-4 this year. Maybe this year, one of the big boys may change. Will Elmhurst beat any of the top four this year? They sure have the potential. But, for the past few years, according to your opinion, they, too had the potential but failed to take the next step.

[79jaybird]

CardinalDad, I agree with some of your points and disagree with some. Fair enough.  Just for the record Elmhurst finished 3-4 tied for 4th with Carthage and/or Second with Carthage behind the top 3 at 6-1. 
I think we both can agree that we hope the Cubs pull out a winner tonight.  OK, my long night of burning the midnight oil with WORK!    is over.  Good night.

[burly]

Agree - Both Carthage and Elmhurst a light years ahead of NP.  But, I think this is the year NP steals one and it will happen against Carthage, Elmhurst or Milikin (in that order of most likely to least likely).

NPU's performance against North Central, as seen in contrast to how the Vikings performed against NCC last season, illustrates what I'm talking about. In 2006 NCC beat NPU by 44 points (58-14), outgained the Vikings 503 yards to 302, out-first-downed the Vikings 25 to 14, and gave up only one turnover to NPU's three. This past week, NCC beat NPU by 27 points (61-34), gained fewer yards than the Vikings (394-428), and the Cards had fewer first downs than did the royal blue and gold (19-20). The one category in which NPU failed to improve was turnovers. North Park coughed up the ball five times, while North Central didn't cough it up at all -- and that was the most significant reason why the Cards won the game.

Thanks Mr. Sager.

Thunderstoned, there is my basis.

[burly]

Yes I do.  On what basis, I'll get back to you.

Agree - Both Carthage and Elmhurst a light years ahead of NP.  But, I think this is the year NP steals one and it will happen against Carthage, Elmhurst or Milikin (in that order of most likely to least likely).

What kinda dope are you smoking???  NPU, although much improved, not going to beat any of those three.  Sorry to say!  For some reason you think Elmhurst and Carthage are that bad for what reason?  Have you seen them play?  Have you seen NPU play?

We will revisit this later.

Last thing, despite Elmhurst beating Carthage this year, I might offer that Carthage beating Augie is a better bet than Elmhurst beating Augie.  Carthage, traditionally speaking, plays Augie tough.

Carthage does have a better shot, because it is a home game. Kenosha is a tough place to play.

Although Kenosha may have something to do with it, that is not the main reason. 

The main reason Carthage plays Augie tough is because they throw a number of very unusual defensive sets at Augie's Wing-T based formations.   For example, in the past, I have seen Carthage play nickel packages or 3 down-line men (with LBs instead of DBs) against Augie.

This significantly disrupts a team that is based on lining up and pounding you* - they are not able to execute as efficiently.  Ultimately, some plays look like backyard football as nobody really knows whom to block.  To complicate things more, Carthage loves to send people – on running or passing downs/situations.

In addition to this unorthodox approach, to the Redman credit, they are usually tough kids that play physical football on the defensive side.

*This is unfortunately changing in recent years...

[burly]

I think Billy Pilgrim needs to find a new ship to sail on.     His Mayflower ship is making him see images that are far from reality.

Billy, I agree and have said many times on the air that I would LOVE North Park to get their football team to the level of the other 7 schools and make this an 8 team dogfight, however they are not at that level presently. 

So I think the majority of us agree that Wheaton is still the predicted frontrunner, but second place (and an outside shot at the NCAA's) is up for grabs.  I think AC/EC/CAR/NC (and not necessarily in that order) are all equipped to be able to slide into that slot.  Parity indeed,  you gotta love it.

Sorry, there aren't any Mayflowers in Tralfamador.

I'd put my money on NP winning a game before I'd start talking about EC sliding into the CCIW championship or an automatic bid.  Speaking of disconnect between perception and reality, are things more clear for you after post #11955?