FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[ncc58]

North Central, Wheaton, and Augie are all 2-2 against each other in the last two years. None of them have shown the ability to dominate at home AND on the road against the upper CCIW teams.

Carthage had a very good team in 2004. But that's 3 years ago now. They need to beat at least one of the top 3 teams this season.

Excuse me if I'm wrong, but Elmhurst is 0-9 in the last three years against NCC, WC, and AC. What are the big games that they have won? They are very competitive but I'm not sure they have broken through. It could happen this year, but they need to get to the playoffs.

North Central supporters were making the same arguments three years ago. They were brushed aside. Come back when you beat Wheaton. Come back when you beat Augie. Come back when make the playoffs. Come back when you win at least a share of the CCIW championship. NCC did all that. So, the same goes for Elmhurst.

4. Carthage--- I know that I am a self-proclaimed homer, but the fact is that they have won a CCIW championship and made it to the 3rd round of NCAA playoffs in the past 3 years.  No team listed below Carthage can say that. And that is the only reason why I have Elmhurst listed below.

5 Elmhurst ---- Have won some very big games the past couple of years, but No play offs and no CCIW titles to show for it. 

[Comet 14]

My take on the Elmhurst CCIW rankings is this. I agree that until they win against Wheaton, Augie or NCC on the road they will conyinue to be the 4th or 5th best team in the conference. But I disagree that they have to qulify for the play-offs to move into the upper tier of the conference. A team could easily finish second in the conference 3 years in a row and not qulify for the play-offs. They would still be a upper tier team. Elmhurst is not there yet.

[redman04]

I think you are making the same points I am so not sure where you are going with this...

North Central, Wheaton, and Augie are all 2-2 against each other in the last two years. None of them have shown the ability to dominate at home AND on the road against the upper CCIW teams.

agreed that is why I listed them as 1,2, &3....Wheaton #1 because of their playoff runs, 5 years in a row (not sure if that is right or not, just a guess)  As I said NCC wins a piece of Title and goes to playoffs for sure they are #2

Carthage had a very good team in 2004. But that's 3 years ago now. They need to beat at least one of the top 3 teams this season.

agreed carthage is a good pick at #4 good team in 04 and they will be at best #4 until the win the CCIW on a more frequent bases.

Excuse me if I'm wrong, but Elmhurst is 0-9 in the last three years against NCC, WC, and AC. What are the big games that they have won? They are very competitive but I'm not sure they have broken through. It could happen this year, but they need to get to the playoffs.

North Central supporters were making the same arguments three years ago. They were brushed aside. Come back when you beat Wheaton. Come back when you beat Augie. Come back when make the playoffs. Come back when you win at least a share of the CCIW championship. NCC did all that. So, the same goes for Elmhurst.

Agreed that is why I listed them at #5 they have won more games and they are still in the bottom half until the win a CCIW or go to the playoffs

[redman04]

Important information for Wheaton fans and players to follow after Saturday's game listed here.

TOO FUNNY!!
+K 

[redman04]

Yes, I did wonder for a while, but then I realized that Karma is more about winning a popularity contest than challenging ideas with stats and facts.  For example, I questioned why people have forgotten how good Burris was and statistically proved my point, but made a lot of people uncomfortable a long the way and started -10.  Anway, that's why I joined this board -

NOBODY LIKES ME 

Its all a popularity contest

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzFyT1tkw8E

[redman04]

My take on the Elmhurst CCIW rankings is this. I agree that until they win against Wheaton, Augie or NCC on the road they will conyinue to be the 4th or 5th best team in the conference. But I disagree that they have to qulify for the play-offs to move into the upper tier of the conference. A team could easily finish second in the conference 3 years in a row and not qulify for the play-offs. They would still be a upper tier team. Elmhurst is not there yet.

A team that would finish 2nd in CCIW for a couple of years in a row would more than not go to the playoffs, as long as the didn't have more than 2 losses....PAT???

Example... Elmhurst goes 9-1 with one loss to wheaton 10-0 Elmhurst would probaly be a a pool c bid

[Mugsy]

North Central, Wheaton, and Augie are all 2-2 against each other in the last two years. None of them have shown the ability to dominate at home AND on the road against the upper CCIW teams.

Carthage had a very good team in 2004. But that's 3 years ago now. They need to beat at least one of the top 3 teams this season.

Excuse me if I'm wrong, but Elmhurst is 0-9 in the last three years against NCC, WC, and AC. What are the big games that they have won? They are very competitive but I'm not sure they have broken through. It could happen this year, but they need to get to the playoffs.

North Central supporters were making the same arguments three years ago. They were brushed aside. Come back when you beat Wheaton. Come back when you beat Augie. Come back when make the playoffs. Come back when you win at least a share of the CCIW championship. NCC did all that. So, the same goes for Elmhurst.

midwestdb,

I agree with your assessment.  Elmhurst has improved significantly, but each of the last 3 years they been 3-1 or 4-1 before hitting the top CCIW contenders only to fall back into the middle of the pack.  Close doesn't count in wins/losses.  

Until Elmhurst beats a Wheaton, Augie or North Central team... (actually they need to beat 2 of 3 of these teams in order to have a chance at a tie for the CCIW championship) I won't view them at the same level.  At that point you can begin talking of them as a "contender".  IMO, even then winning the championship once doesn't make you a top team in the league.  Wheaton won in 1995... then in 1999, then finally they began a string of repeat championships.  It wasn't until after 2000 or 2001 where a considerable number of posters on this board began to consider Wheaton in the same breath as Augie.

I don't mean to belittle Elmhurst's accomplishments to this point, but what have they done beyond beat the teams they really should (Carthage was a close match).  All other opponents would be considered an upset if Elmhurst lost.

[Mugsy]

My take on the Elmhurst CCIW rankings is this. I agree that until they win against Wheaton, Augie or NCC on the road they will conyinue to be the 4th or 5th best team in the conference. But I disagree that they have to qulify for the play-offs to move into the upper tier of the conference. A team could easily finish second in the conference 3 years in a row and not qulify for the play-offs. They would still be a upper tier team. Elmhurst is not there yet.

I'm afraid I don't agree with this for the reasons in my previous post.  It wasn't until Wheaton won CCIW championships on a regular basis before they were considered alongside Augie.  Finishing 2nd repeadily makes you a very good team, but not a top team.  Top teams win championships - not necessarily every year, but more than one.

[usee]

Important information for Wheaton fans and players to follow after Saturday's game listed here.

TOO FUNNY!!
+K 

same here +K

[Mugsy]

Important information for Wheaton fans and players to follow after Saturday's game listed here.

I don't know about you but after reading the first point and then thinking about "Naperville School" posters... I about lost my lunch.

No disrepect meant, but handling their secretions and feces... 

[Tailgater]

Agree - Both Carthage and Elmhurst a light years ahead of NP.  But, I think this is the year NP steals one and it will happen against Carthage, Elmhurst or Milikin (in that order of most likely to least likely).

And Billy P. Added:
Who has no clue? 

Please enlighten me with your infinite CCIW wisdom and answer this, what CCIW game this year does NP have the greatest chance of winning?  If your answer is Carthage, we are on the same page.  If it's anybody else, please explain.

[/quote]

BP
NP's greatest chance to win a CCIW game this year happens every weekend when they show up dressed and ready to play a game. You never know what happens in this sport, Heck how many people picked IWU to dump on Augie?

I've tried to steer clear of this debate, but as you seem to have put yourself out there as one with greater wisdom than others about the CCIW  and specifically now Carthage as you selected them as the defeated to NP, I have to call you out and ask for a more defined detail in why you believe this years NP team has the best chance of beating this years Carthage team other than "I Think". Have you seen either play? or are you just trying to stimulate debate?

[ncc58]

So I guess that's going to become a staple of Bell week, since I think you Wheaties posted the same thing last year.

For someone about to run 26.2 miles in 85 degree weather, I'm not sure you should be thinking about secretions and feces. 

Important information for Wheaton fans and players to follow after Saturday's game listed here.

I don't know about you but after reading the first point and then thinking about "Naperville School" posters... I about lost my lunch.

No disrepect meant, but handling their secretions and feces... 

[usee]

 Wheaton won in 1995... then in 1999, then finally they began a string of repeat championships.  It wasn't until after 2000 or 2001 where a considerable number of posters on this board began to consider Wheaton in the same breath as Augie.

From 2000-2006 Wheaton is 5-2 against Augie including 3 wins in Rock Island. 4 of these 5 wins were on the last play of the game on the last weekend of the regular season with a playoff berth on the line. Wheaton also won or shared the conference title 5 of those 7 years. That's a pretty good record.

[cardinaldad]

So I guess that's going to become a staple of Bell week, since I think you Wheaties posted the same thing last year.

For someone about to run 26.2 miles in 85 degree weather, I'm not sure you should be thinking about secretions and feces. 

Important information for Wheaton fans and players to follow after Saturday's game listed here.

I don't know about you but after reading the first point and then thinking about "Naperville School" posters... I about lost my lunch.

No disrepect meant, but handling their secretions and feces... 

Now that's funny. I don't care who you are!

[DIIIinVA]

Things sure have changed since Wheaton beat Augie in 1991 for Wheaton's first win in that series in something like 16 seasons.  I remember former players in their 20's and 30's on the field afterward literally crying with joy at a Wheaton victory over Augie.  Wheaton went 7-1-1 that year but missed a conference championship due to a loss to Milikin and a tie vs. IWU.

From there it still took Wheaton 4 more years to finally win the conference, 4 more after that to win it again, and only within the last 5 years or so has Wheaton consistently been thought of as being on a par with Augie by the average Division III fan.  My thought from afar is that in terms of being seen as a top team Elmhurst's profile seems to be a little lower than where Wheaton was prior to that 1991 season.  It's nice to see them being competitive and any given season might turn out to be "special."  But you have to beat the big boys.  Then you have to win the conference.  You have to do those things first, then do it more than once, then do it consistently . . . before people will say that you are one of the top programs in conference.