FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[redman04]

Have you considered working for the BCS?

That's My Day Job!!!   

[Comet 14]

My take on the Elmhurst CCIW rankings is this. I agree that until they win against Wheaton, Augie or NCC on the road they will conyinue to be the 4th or 5th best team in the conference. But I disagree that they have to qulify for the play-offs to move into the upper tier of the conference. A team could easily finish second in the conference 3 years in a row and not qulify for the play-offs. They would still be a upper tier team. Elmhurst is not there yet.

A team that would finish 2nd in CCIW for a couple of years in a row would more than not go to the playoffs, as long as the didn't have more than 2 losses....PAT???

Example... Elmhurst goes 9-1 with one loss to wheaton 10-0 Elmhurst would probaly be a a pool c bid

Redman04- believe it or not there have been teams in the CCIW get second in the conference without 9-1 records and depending on the strength of the rest of the conference even a 9-1 record does not give you a play-off bid.

[redman04]

My take on the Elmhurst CCIW rankings is this. I agree that until they win against Wheaton, Augie or NCC on the road they will conyinue to be the 4th or 5th best team in the conference. But I disagree that they have to qulify for the play-offs to move into the upper tier of the conference. A team could easily finish second in the conference 3 years in a row and not qulify for the play-offs. They would still be a upper tier team. Elmhurst is not there yet.

A team that would finish 2nd in CCIW for a couple of years in a row would more than not go to the playoffs, as long as the didn't have more than 2 losses....PAT???

Example... Elmhurst goes 9-1 with one loss to wheaton 10-0 Elmhurst would probaly be a a pool c bid

Redman04- believe it or not there have been teams in the CCIW get second in the conference without 9-1 records and depending on the strength of the rest of the conference even a 9-1 record does not give you a play-off bid.

Notice the word EXAMPLE, it is all that it was. Correct 9-1 may not get you in, but A CCIW team going 9-1 and not winning the CCIW would more than likely get a pool C bid

Sidenote... What was the last team to go 9-0 before 2000, or 10-0 after?  Has it happened since IWU in 96??

[Comet 14]

My take on the Elmhurst CCIW rankings is this. I agree that until they win against Wheaton, Augie or NCC on the road they will conyinue to be the 4th or 5th best team in the conference. But I disagree that they have to qulify for the play-offs to move into the upper tier of the conference. A team could easily finish second in the conference 3 years in a row and not qulify for the play-offs. They would still be a upper tier team. Elmhurst is not there yet.

I'm afraid I don't agree with this for the reasons in my previous post.  It wasn't until Wheaton won CCIW championships on a regular basis before they were considered alongside Augie.  Finishing 2nd repeadily makes you a very good team, but not a top team.  Top teams win championships - not necessarily every year, but more than one.

Mugsy- I never said along side of anybody, I said upper-tier team. In the 80's when Augie was on a championship run, Elmhurst  from 81 to 85 a span of 5 years finished  2nd at 7-1, 4th at 5-3, 2nd at 6-2, 3rd at 5-3 and 2nd at 6-2. I would say they were in the upper-tier of the conference.IMHO

[Comet 14]

redman04- Notice the words " My take on Elmhurst" meaning my opinion. I will agree to disagree.

[Pat Coleman]

My take on the Elmhurst CCIW rankings is this. I agree that until they win against Wheaton, Augie or NCC on the road they will conyinue to be the 4th or 5th best team in the conference. But I disagree that they have to qulify for the play-offs to move into the upper tier of the conference. A team could easily finish second in the conference 3 years in a row and not qulify for the play-offs. They would still be a upper tier team. Elmhurst is not there yet.

A team that would finish 2nd in CCIW for a couple of years in a row would more than not go to the playoffs, as long as the didn't have more than 2 losses....PAT???

Example... Elmhurst goes 9-1 with one loss to wheaton 10-0 Elmhurst would probaly be a a pool c bid

Redman04- believe it or not there have been teams in the CCIW get second in the conference without 9-1 records and depending on the strength of the rest of the conference even a 9-1 record does not give you a play-off bid.

Notice the word EXAMPLE, it is all that it was. Correct 9-1 may not get you in, but A CCIW team going 9-1 and not winning the CCIW would more than likely get a pool C bid

Sidenote... What was the last team to go 9-0 before 2000, or 10-0 after?  Has it happened since IWU in 96??

We have all sorts of info on the site.

[Dennis_Prikkel]

In 1976, Carroll College, then in the CCIW, played in the first overtime game in NCAA history, losing 20-14 to Buena Vista in the opening round of the NCAA tournament.

dgp

[redman04]

redman04- Notice the words " My take on Elmhurst" meaning my opinion. I will agree to disagree.

I will not agree to that! 

[redman04]

We have all sorts of info on the site.

Yes you do and I love it!

I'll answer my own question

from 1999 till now now team in the CCIW has gone undefeated.   IWU did in 1996.

Thanks Pat!

[Comet 14]

redman04- Notice the words " My take on Elmhurst" meaning my opinion. I will agree to disagree.

I will not agree to that! 

Plus K for you 

[redman04]

redman04- Notice the words " My take on Elmhurst" meaning my opinion. I will agree to disagree.

I will not agree to that! 

Plus K for you 

right back at ya!   

[usee]

We have all sorts of info on the site.

Yes you do and I love it!

I'll answer my own question

from 1999 till now now team in the CCIW has gone undefeated.   IWU did in 1996.

Thanks Pat!

False. In 2003 Wheaton went 10-0 in the regular season and finished 12-1, losing to Mt Union in the quarterfinals of the playoffs.

[Tailgater]

BP
NP's greatest chance to win a CCIW game this year happens every weekend when they show up dressed and ready to play a game.

I have to call you out and ask for a more defined detail in why you believe this years NP team has the best chance of beating this years Carthage team other than "I Think".

I enjoy analyzing the quantitative side of the game, so my predictions are more statistically oriented.  Certainly, one cannot draw conclusions solely off stats, but for the most part, they provide strong guidance on future performance.  If anything, stats provide tangible ground for everyone to debate with or benchmark.

Again, it is unlikely that NPU will win a game this year; however, if they do, it will most likely come against Carthage, which so far looks like the 6th or 7th best team in the CCIW this year.

My reasons are two-fold:

1. Statistics

Lets see what happens - looks like a good match-up to me.

2007 CCIW Football Statistics (Through games of Oct 01, 2007) -- All games

TEAM STATISTICS                  NPU          OPP    TEAM STATISTICS       CARTHAGE          OPP
   
RUSHING YARDAGE.......          620          727    RUSHING YARDAGE......          351          282
PASSING YARDAGE.......          677          558     PASSING YARDAGE........        932          758
TOTAL OFFENSE...........         1297         1285    TOTAL OFFENSE........         1283         1040

2. Weekly Improvement

As Mr. Sager noted:

NPU's performance against North Central, as seen in contrast to how the Vikings performed against NCC last season, illustrates what I'm talking about. In 2006 NCC beat NPU by 44 points (58-14), outgained the Vikings 503 yards to 302, out-first-downed the Vikings 25 to 14, and gave up only one turnover to NPU's three. This past week, NCC beat NPU by 27 points (61-34), gained fewer yards than the Vikings (394-428), and the Cards had fewer first downs than did the royal blue and gold (19-20). The one category in which NPU failed to improve was turnovers. North Park coughed up the ball five times, while North Central didn't cough it up at all -- and that was the most significant reason why the Cards won the game.

It's difficult to say how good North Central's offense and defense are, but I think it's safe to say that they are better than (a minimum of) 3 other teams in the CCIW.  If NPU can continue to put up total offensive yardage like they did against North Central, eventually they are going to find themselves in a scoring shootout and have a shot to bring home a CCIW W.

Granted, NPU has played a weaker non-conference schedule and Carthage is playing better defensive thus far.  I still think the week-to-week improvement shown by NPU is worth noting and will be interested to see what happens vs. Milikin this week. 

Bottom line: If they play Milikin well this week generating strong total offense numbers, they have a chance of beating Carthage next week.  If not, it looks like another winless CCIW season.

Stats are a nice measuring stick, but when you compare apples to oranges by opponents you can't draw much conclusion. Team personnel is also subject to change week by week with injuries. When there are some common CCIW opponents to compare to that makes stats a little more relevant. So I guess I'm saying if these stats are what you draw your conclusion that NP's best chance to win a CCIW game is against Carthage, I'm not buying it. As I said earlier NP's best chance to win is every week when they show up at a field ready to play and compete which is what they are doing. You can't forget that when Carthage finished 5th in the Nation in 2004 they barely survived NP in a 14-12 contest at NP. Carthage scored on a blocked field goal returned by Steve Rucks for a TD, then Brett Barnes picked off his third pass of the game late in the 4th qtr and returned it for the winning score. Barnes was named CCIW defensive player of week for his accomplishments that day. The offense was non-existent. I wondered if they ever got off the bus. Even while Carthage was riding high in 2004 they almost fell to the most unlikely opponent. I pray Carthage won't be NP's first victim.

[Tailgater]

Mugsy:
Best wishes to you as you take a jog through Chicago this Sunday morning. I'm sure there are many on this Board who will be supporting you and routing you on. I don't care about your time, just finish and represent the CCIW well.

[burly]

Never read Coaches poll.  Also these are not weekly rankings I gave.  This was a response to who is in the upper echelon of the conference. 

The debate jaybird and I have been having about Elmhurst this weekend brings to mind another topic I have been pondering. When has a team arrived at the top of the conference to be considered one of the best? Clearly Jaybird feels Elmhurst already belongs as he mentions them consistently when speaking of the last few conference champions. Carthage may feel they belong since they have won a conference championship and gone to the playoffs in the last few years. Naperville has a claim as they have been to the playoffs and shared their first CCIW title in forever. Wheaton has lost more to Mt Union than any CCIW team in the last 7 years and Augie has always been at the top of the CCIW.

Clearly a mark of success is the ability to make the NCAA playoffs. whether that's by AQ or pool C if you are in you have won most of your games in the CCIW. But in looking at the process of getting to that point I took the Naperville school as an example. They wallowed in mediocrity for years under previous regimes. they then showed signs of promise and their breakthrough wins were beating Augie in 2004 and Wheaton in 2005. Both of those victories were at home. They came close to beating Augie in Rock Island in 2005 and lost on a last second field goal. They have yet no road wins against any of the last 3 conference champions. Those are hard facts to overlook. So for teams like Naperville, Carthage, and Elmhurst, I think they have to show everyone they can win on the road. Even Carthage hasn't beaten Augie or Wheaton at their place. More importantly, This codifies what I have been feeling about Elmhurst this weekend vs Augie. Elmhurst hasn't shown me a big win at home to indicate they are ready to compete with Augie on the road. I may be wrong and this Saturday they have a chance to change that trend, but history shows that's not how it happens. Now Elmhurst's players don't believe that and they shouldn't, they are certainly talented enough to beat anyone if they play well.

Interesting points---- As someone recently brought up the idea of big 4 little 4 in the cciw was the norm for years.  I really think that now it is not the case at all.  There is one upper echelon team in the CCIW, Wheaton.  That will be the case until some other team can beat them on a consistent basis.  After that there are a bunch of middle teams and one bottom team, NPU....Not trying to beat up on the Vikes just stating facts.

The middle teams are hard to rank.  They are almost all interchangeable.  Here is my best stab at it

I never said that it was a weekly ranking. 

I would put EC above Carthage if I was making a weekly ranking, but that is not what I did.

Me neither.  I said rankings should change week-to-week, but yours hasn't.