FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[burly]

Redman04, lets hear it.  Thoughts on the Carthage vs. NPU game this week and new rankings....

Tailgater, still down and out?  Or, will the Redman rebound?  You two are quiet.

[79jaybird]

Officials are human and their calls are either going to be cheered or booed by whichever side you are on.  The officials at the EC/Augie game were ok,  but they did miss many calls for both sides.  For example, Elmhurst was given a reception that led to a TD drive that even from way up in the box I could see was shorthopped.  I think at season's end if you were to look at all the calls, they would even out between some for/some against.

MidwestFB, c'mon man.  Religious comments pertaining to a frustration on the football field do not go together.  Wheaton has always been great character and wins/loses with grace.  That is not a result of "God" or anything to do with him, rather just the individual players hearts and personalities.

Tailgater, Augie's offense really didn't do much in the first half, until we muffed the punt which led to their score with 2-2:30 left in the 1st half.  We had 3 opportunities from the 30 yd line in to score, and that is where I felt we had our chance to open up a lead.
Augie DID own the second half and primarily the 3rd quarter.  I mean they scored, then a 3 and out, they scored, 3 and out, etc.

I am not "dwelling" on the Augie game because the Vikings beat us on execution.  Our defense gave us a chance and now we just need the offense to get back to the form we saw in weeks 1-3. 

[redman04]

Redman04, lets here it.  Thoughts on the Carthage vs. NPU game this week and new rankings....

Tailgater, still down and out?  Or, will the Redman rebound?  You two are quite.

I will not do weekly rankings,  the standings do that. I did not do a weekly ranking last time.  You have seemed to miss that I have said that several times!

However, my thoughts on the game vs NPU.  I think Carthage will win, Not a slaughter, but a solid win.  +10  Carthage needs to play more consitstantly and not turn the ball over.  (sounds simple but very true)  I think if they do that they will not give away a game they should win.
NPU would need to play a great game to win.

[usee]

Good, correct points Cardinalalum and already pointed out numerous times on the board. You say that 12 men on the field is infrequently called...I say it IS frequently called. Great country America is, isn't it?

I have to agree and disagree with both of you.  I've seen it both ways.  I've seen some officials call it to the letter of the law, and if the guy was still on the field even 1 or 2 steps, it was called.  I've seen other games where the official takes more of a liberal approach to the rule, where if the player is only a step or two away and not having any effect on the play, they let it go.  Just depends on how that particular ref enforces the rule, maybe one of those letter of the law vs. spirit of the law kinda things.  

You and I don't disagree at all. I have definately seen it both ways and I am NOT advocating a call either way. I have seen it hundreds of times and likely so have you. In almost every game there is a play or two where a player is racing to get off the field. Often times he makes it, sometimes he doesn't, sometimes its pretty close.

I remember in the late 80's the Cincinatti Bengals made the no huddle offense popular with Boomer Esiason. Sam Wyche was the head coach and they had quick calls designed to catch the defense in substitutions and get a big play or force the "12 men" call. for a couple seasons that happened every week. They stopped doing it because the officials weren't consistently calling it.  8)

[Augie6]

Tailgater, Augie's offense really didn't do much in the first half, until we muffed the punt which led to their score with 2-2:30 left in the 1st half.  We had 3 opportunities from the 30 yd line in to score, and that is where I felt we had our chance to open up a lead.
Augie DID own the second half and primarily the 3rd quarter.  I mean they scored, then a 3 and out, they scored, 3 and out, etc.

I am not "dwelling" on the Augie game because the Vikings beat us on execution.  Our defense gave us a chance and now we just need the offense to get back to the form we saw in weeks 1-3. 

Jaybird,

Wasn't at this game, but I would be pretty concerned about the defense as well as the offense.  You state that Augie didn't do much until the last 2 minutes of the first half.  Based on the account of the game I read, Augie's first drive was into Elmhurst territory and resulted in a missed FG.  Shortly after, Augie drove to Elmhurst's 20 yard line but turned the ball over on downs.  The fact that Elmhurst's D didn't give up any points is fine, but that doesn't mean Augie's offense wasn't doing much.  The bottom line is, if your defense gives up 470 yards rushing and can't get off the field, that's a problem.  Let's also not forget that this doesn't seem to be one of the better Augie offenses to take the field.  Both Baldwin Wallace and IWU held Augie's rushing attack in check.  So giving up that many yards to an offense that hasn't been very consistent, would be a big cause for alarm for me. 

[burly]

Redman04, lets hear it.  Thoughts on the Carthage vs. NPU game this week and new rankings....

Tailgater, still down and out?  Or, will the Redman rebound?  You two are quiet.

I will not do weekly rankings,  the standings do that. I did not do a weekly ranking last time.  You have seemed to miss that I have said that several times!

However, my thoughts on the game vs NPU.  I think Carthage will win, Not a slaughter, but a solid win.  +10  Carthage needs to play more consitstantly and not turn the ball over.  (sounds simple but very true)  I think if they do that they will not give away a game they should win.
NPU would need to play a great game to win.

I didn't miss it, just wanted to invite the opportunity again.

Offensively, both teams should be able to put some points on the board.  Defensively, NPU won't be able to stop the Carthage offensive.  If NPUs offense can keep them in the game, they have a shot in the 4Q. 

The good news about this game is the winner walks away with a conference victory.  The bad news, it might be the only one of the year.

Below, find CCIW stats for review through two games.  Carthage vs. Elmhurst and IWU / NPU vs. North Central and Milkin.

TEAM STATISTICS   CARTHAGE      OPP   TEAM STATISTICS                    NPU          OPP
SCORING..............         46           65   SCORING.......................            41           95
  Points Per Game....    23.0         32.5     Points Per Game............       20.5         47.5
FIRST DOWNS..........     29           34   FIRST DOWNS..................          41           34
RUSHING YARDAGE...    205          110   RUSHING YARDAGE...........       240          411
PASSING YARDAGE....   325          579   PASSING YARDAGE............      524          373
TOTAL OFFENSE........   530          689   TOTAL OFFENSE................      764          784

[burly]

Officials are human and their calls are either going to be cheered or booed by whichever side you are on.  The officials at the EC/Augie game were ok,  but they did miss many calls for both sides.  For example, Elmhurst was given a reception that led to a TD drive that even from way up in the box I could see was shorthopped.  I think at season's end if you were to look at all the calls, they would even out between some for/some against.

MidwestFB, c'mon man.  Religious comments pertaining to a frustration on the football field do not go together.  Wheaton has always been great character and wins/loses with grace.  That is not a result of "God" or anything to do with him, rather just the individual players hearts and personalities.

Tailgater, Augie's offense really didn't do much in the first half, until we muffed the punt which led to their score with 2-2:30 left in the 1st half.  We had 3 opportunities from the 30 yd line in to score, and that is where I felt we had our chance to open up a lead.
Augie DID own the second half and primarily the 3rd quarter.  I mean they scored, then a 3 and out, they scored, 3 and out, etc.

I am not "dwelling" on the Augie game because the Vikings beat us on execution.  Our defense gave us a chance and now we just need the offense to get back to the form we saw in weeks 1-3. 

I did not see the game and have not read this in any posts thus far, but thought I would point out that EC had -2 yards on 10 rushing attempts.  I'm curious why EC didn't try to establish a running game?  Especially, due to the fact they were only trailing by 7 for more than half of the game - no need to put the ball in the air.  I understand that it's hard to establish a running game when the other team puts up 470 yards on the ground and has the ball for 44 minutes, but is Augie's D that good or is ECs offensive that bad?  Thoughts?  I cannot remember the last time a CCIW team was held to negative total rushing yards.

[Titan Q]

I have heard that Andy Studebaker is out for the upcoming game vs Augustana and probably at least the next week too.  Wheaton fans - any confirmation?

[burly]

IMO, if you are going to pick an upset this week I would be just as inclined to look at any of the other three games as I would this one, and I happen to find the game in Rock Island most intriguing.

I'm with Usee here. 

Elmhurst hasn't beat Augie since insert a date [XXXX] a long time ago.  Furthermore, the Bluejay program has done nothing this year or in recent years to make me think they will be able to steal one in Rock Island this weekend.

Granted, North Park's only two victories in CCIW play since 1999 are vs. Elmhurst in both 1999 and 2000, I still think they have a shot to win one, maybe two games this year.  Those games include Milikin, Carthage and Elmhurst.   I'm not ready to take NP over Milikin, but if they play Milikin tough, I will take them over Carthage.  And, if they beat Carthage next week, they have a good shot (with the way they are improving week-to-week) at Elmhurst on Nov. 10th.

North Park over Elmhurst.... now that would be an upset.

Do you seriously think that Carthage and Elmhurst are that bad?  And if so, on what basis?  Sure, Elmhurst hasn't shown enough yet to warrant picking them to win at Augie, but to say they've done nothing in recent years to think they have a shot is unfair.

Performances by EC last weekend.  -2 yards rushing and giving up 470 on the ground.  The number one goal of every defense is to stop the run.  Unless, you are lined up across from Manning or Brady, only then do your priorities change.

IMO, the Elmhurst program has made significant strides towards competing at the top of the conference and I don't think it is unreasonable to suggest the possibility of them beating Augie...

I agree with you, but those strides are put back into reality with performances such as last weekend.

What I really don't understand is why EC didn't try to establish a running game - 10 attempts, down by 7 for more than half of the game, there is no reason to put the ball in the air.  I understand that Augie had the ball for 44 minutes and was running wild, but this is unacceptable on the offensive coordinators part.

[79jaybird]

Billy, Elmhurst tried to establish a running game but Augie's interior defense was very stingy. That was not what bothered me.
What bothered me is that we came out in the second half with an empty backfield all half!  Lining up without a running back IMO is not very good.  This allows the defense to drop their LB's and know that you are passing.  
I have always preferred to keep a running back in the backfield (even if it is a pass), just to keep the defense honest and respect the fact that it could be a run.  
The problem for EC right now is offense.  In the Augie game, our defense was doing the job, but cannot be expected to keep the game scoreless all game long, and be able to stay 100% on no rest.   90 degrees on the field and our offense was going 3 and out,  eventually leads to fatigue.

[burly]

Billy, Elmhurst tried to establish a running game but Augie's interior defense was very stingy. That was not what bothered me.
What bothered me is that we came out in the second half with an empty backfield all half!  Lining up without a running back IMO is not very good.  This allows the defense to drop their LB's and know that you are passing.  
I have always preferred to keep a running back in the backfield (even if it is a pass), just to keep the defense honest and respect the fact that it could be a run.  
The problem for EC right now is offense.  In the Augie game, our defense was doing the job, but cannot be expected to keep the game scoreless all game long, and be able to stay 100% on no rest.   90 degrees on the field and our offense was going 3 and out,  eventually leads to fatigue.

Thanks, but I'm still surprised to see only 10 rushing attempts.  It sounds like EC tried to change their offense in the middle of the game.  Did they empty the backfield on every play? 

Where is Drew Brees when you need him???

[79jaybird]

I don't recall if it was every play, but it was pretty easy to see what Elmhurst was trying to do on offense, very predictable. 
The O-Line has been getting the job done, it's the need for more production from the QB,RB's, and WR's.    (This is just my opinion)

[FormerCard]

what does NC have to do to beat Elmhurst this weekend.  Did Lester ever run the D at elmhurst?  or is the 3-3-5 something they never went against in practice?  I thought he was O coordinator.

[usee]

I have heard that Andy Studebaker is out for the upcoming game vs Augustana and probably at least the next week too.  Wheaton fans - any confirmation?

Q, your source has been very reliable (a player on the wheaton team if I recall) so that wouldn't be at all surprising. I have not heard anything. the reality is we will see how good wheaton's defense is this week as plays will have to be made by people not named studebaker or ittersagen. Their DLine has an opportunity to make a name for itself other than "the 3 guys not named Andy". and their LB's will have a major challenge. On offense, they cannot afford to produce no first downs for almost a quarter and no points for over a half. Wheaton's depth and strength will be tested this week more than it has all season.

[Mugsy]

I have heard that Andy Studebaker is out for the upcoming game vs Augustana and probably at least the next week too.  Wheaton fans - any confirmation?

Q, your source has been very reliable (a player on the wheaton team if I recall) so that wouldn't be at all surprising. I have not heard anything. the reality is we will see how good wheaton's defense is this week as plays will have to be made by people not named studebaker or ittersagen. Their DLine has an opportunity to make a name for itself other than "the 3 guys not named Andy". and their LB's will have a major challenge. On offense, they cannot afford to produce no first downs for almost a quarter and no points for over a half. Wheaton's depth and strength will be tested this week more than it has all season.

If I recall Wheaton didn't get things going against Augie last year until the 4th quarter and by then it was too late.  They can't afford to start slow on either side of the ball.