FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Augie6]

The winning TD pass (although a well placed ball by Norris) should have never happened.  Augie's safety was in position to make that play but took a poor angle to the ball and allowed it to go over his head. 

Not beat a dead horse (but that is my rap so here we go):

Augie6, you were an excellent db at Augie in their 80's run so it makes sense you understand secondary play. Did you watch how Augie's db's were playing wheaton's recievers? I am not sure how they can defend many passes with their technique. besides that, this play was 3rd and long and Wheaton often runs the square in route in that situation. It is conceivable that the safety was anticipating this route (the initial pattern of a post and square in are identical) and was looking to jump the square in and was surprised by the post?

In any case, judging from the stats Augie is taking a fair number of "bad angles" these days. They gave up 3 passing plays of 20+ yds in the wheaton game ( wheaton had recievers past their db's on 3 other occasions, 2 drops and 1 bad throw). Augie also gave up 6 passing plays of 20+ yds at carthage, 3 of them going for TD's.

usee and Mugsy,

Since when does a team have to dominate a game to be deserving of a win?  My opinion of the Augie / Wheaton game was that both teams made good plays and bad plays throughout the course of the game, Wheaton just happened to make more good plays at critical times than Augie did.  My whole point in this discussion is that I don't believe that Wheaton dominated Augie and looked like a much better team.  I simply did not see a Wheaton team that I thought was two touchdowns better than Augie on that night.  That was what generated my thoughts about HJ's comments. 

The comment about "freaky pass plays" is a little bizarre.  I wouldn't classify any of the pass plays that Augie ran as "freaky".  For the most part, I thought it was a good game plan and the plays worked.  We didn't pass much when I played at Augie, but when we did, we typically had pretty good success.  Sometimes this is necessary when playing good teams in close ball games.  We beat a very good Mt. Union team in 86 due, in large part, to our passing game.  I don't believe it's necessary to make excuses or apologize when an Augie team is able to move the ball through the air.  Certainly not the norm for Augie, but not what I would classify as "freaky".  If Wheaton was a much more dominant team than Augie, then the passing plays shouldn't have worked.  Also, how do you crawl back into a game when it was a 21-17 game with 12:26 left in the 3RD QUARTER.  Those arguments don't hold any water with me.

As for Augie's pass D, I agree with you that it is poor.  The DB's seem to have little ability to cover man to man and are easily beat.  On the play in question, I was standing with Mike Gray and Mark Long (All American FS and SS during the 80's) on the sideline near the end zone where the ball was thrown.   We all felt like that was a play the FS (Slette) should have made.  He was far enough off the ball to see the pattern develop but took a flat route to the ball instead of angling back to make the play.

I apologize if you believe I am "whining" about the loss.  The bottom line is Wheaton deserved to win the game because they made the key plays when it counted and Augie didn't.  However, I don't apologize for still believing that Wheaton wasn't the dominant team that night and should have won by multiple scores.  That was the point that this discussion started from.

[Mugsy]

The comment about "freaky pass plays" is a little bizarre.  I wouldn't classify any of the pass plays that Augie ran as "freaky". 

"Freaky" was not meant to refer to the scheme (pass routes, effectiveness off play action, etc...).  Freaky was a bad word to use.  I was attempting some tongue-in-cheek for the "shot put" ducks Augie QB's tend to throw.  A few of those passes were absolutely horrible, but made it to the receiver (somehow).  Most Augie completions, while completions on paper, leave you wondering how that just happened.

[CardinalAlum]

I think (from my playing days) the 2 hardest places to win a road game are 1) Bloomington
2) Rock Island
3) Kenosha

Uhhhh, which is it 2 or 3?   

[CardinalAlum]

IMHO,  The 2, and only 2, hardest places to play in the conference:

1)Wheaton-I don't know what it is about playing there, but if it could go wrong, it usually did there.

2)Augustana-They seem to play their best ball at home and the officiating tends to be, shall we say, Viking-friendly.

Using Jaybird math, my "next" top 2 place would be Weenieland!

[Comet 14]

I am just a young whipper-snapper ( when it comes to ths CCIW ) but it appears to me that other than North Park all the road games are pretty tough. Maybe some IWU posters can help me out. I made my first trip to there stadium Sat and the Stadium was great.  I was just surprised that they did not have field-turf yet. Any plans in the near future for this?

[Titan Q]

I think (from my playing days) the 2 hardest places to win a road game are 1) Bloomington
2) Rock Island
3) Kenosha

Just from personal experiences, though with the recent uprising of NC  you could put Naperville up there with Kenosha.
Millikin used to be a stingy, hostile place and is still a tough place to pick up a victory. 

Jaybird,

although I didn't include on my list (for obvious reasons) I am surprised you didn't include Wheaton on your list? considering they are 34-1 at home since 2002 (which should span your playing days) and Elmhurst hasn't been within several TD's of Wheaton when playing them at E. McCully. 

IWU is 25-12 (.676) at home in the CCIW the last 10 years (1998 through 2007), which is not great.  7 of those 12 losses were suffered the last 3 seasons (2004-2006).

[usee]

Since when does a team have to dominate a game to be deserving of a win?  My opinion of the Augie / Wheaton game was that both teams made good plays and bad plays throughout the course of the game, Wheaton just happened to make more good plays at critical times than Augie did.  My whole point in this discussion is that I don't believe that Wheaton dominated Augie and looked like a much better team.  

I agree with this. I never said anything about domination either. My reaction was to your repeated referral to stats as if it was Augie who dominated the game. I don't think either team dominated but to me Wheaton  was clearly the team that had an opportunity to separate themselves and did not.

Also, how do you crawl back into a game when it was a 21-17 game with 12:26 left in the 3RD QUARTER.  Those arguments don't hold any water with me.

I think the crawling was done by then. it was 21-7 with Augie punting when the crawling started.

On the play in question, I was standing with Mike Gray and Mark Long (All American FS and SS during the 80's) on the sideline near the end zone where the ball was thrown. 

Those are 3 pretty good db's watching this play (yes I included you  ). If Augie had 3 guys in their secondary like you three we wouldn't be having this discussion. (which is probably what you guys were saying to each other as it happened).

[Titan Q]

I am just a young whipper-snapper ( when it comes to ths CCIW ) but it appears to me that other than North Park all the road games are pretty tough. Maybe some IWU posters can help me out. I made my first trip to there stadium Sat and the Stadium was great.  I was just surprised that they did not have field-turf yet. Any plans in the near future for this?

I've always liked IWU's football stadium...

http://titan.iwu.edu:82/sports/FootballStadium.shtml

In use since 1893, it is the fifth oldest in the nation, behind Williams (1875), Wesleyan  (1881), Sewanee (1888), and Amherst (1891).

I have not heard about any plans to install field turf.

[matblake]

I am just a young whipper-snapper ( when it comes to ths CCIW ) but it appears to me that other than North Park all the road games are pretty tough. Maybe some IWU posters can help me out. I made my first trip to there stadium Sat and the Stadium was great.  I was just surprised that they did not have field-turf yet. Any plans in the near future for this?

I've always liked IWU's football stadium...

http://titan.iwu.edu:82/sports/FootballStadium.shtml

In use since 1893, it is the fifth oldest in the nation, behind Williams (1875), Wesleyan  (1881), Sewanee (1888), and Amherst (1891).

I have not heard about any plans to install field turf.

I haven't been there since 1997, but I did like the fact that they had a flame on an olympic torch type thing that burned the entire game. 

[Titan Q]

I am just a young whipper-snapper ( when it comes to ths CCIW ) but it appears to me that other than North Park all the road games are pretty tough. Maybe some IWU posters can help me out. I made my first trip to there stadium Sat and the Stadium was great.  I was just surprised that they did not have field-turf yet. Any plans in the near future for this?

I've always liked IWU's football stadium...

http://titan.iwu.edu:82/sports/FootballStadium.shtml

In use since 1893, it is the fifth oldest in the nation, behind Williams (1875), Wesleyan  (1881), Sewanee (1888), and Amherst (1891).

I have not heard about any plans to install field turf.

I haven't been there since 1997, but I did like the fact that they had a flame on an olympic torch type thing that burned the entire game. 

http://www2.iwu.edu/menssports/ftball/images/fb_front07side.jpg

[wheels81]

I know that Wheaton isn't looking forward to playing in Bloomington.   The last time they won was 2002,  (granted they played 03 and 04 in Wheaton).  Maybe they'll have some wounded players back.  But going against a young and seemingly potent offense in IWU (that will have a full year experience) will certainly test them on their ravaged D-line and banged up secondary. On the other hand the veteran green weenies  on defense will be  a real test for the stricken thunder offense.

[Titan Q]

An IWU focus in today's Sun Times Small College piece with other CCIW mention as well...

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/colleges/619289,CST-SPT-small25.article

I like how they lump the I-AA info into "Small College" -- it drives my ISU Redbird buddies crazy when they see their stuff under the CCIW/NAIA type features!


And an article from today's Pantagraph...

http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2007/10/25/sports/doc472025de6d43c277249853.txt

[Redmen96]

RED SOX...again

[matblake]

And an article from today's Pantagraph...
http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2007/10/25/sports/doc472025de6d43c277249853.txt

That ax may be a good start to a trophy game with another CCIW school.  Perhaps Augustana or Millikin considering the rivalries between those schools.  Or, since it has all the CCIW members on it, the school who finishes higher in the CCIW between say Millikin and IWU rather than the direct head to head battle. 

[redman04]

It would be nice to see some more trophies in the CCIW. ie...Big Ten, Little brown Jug, Paul Bunyon's axe, Ect... The only one is the Little brass bell,  Carthage and Carroll (them being a former CCIW Team) play for the Old Musket.