FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[79jaybird]

My HS Football Coach used to tell us this acronym:

TEAM
T- TOGETHER
E- EVERYONE
A- ACCOMPLISHES
M- MORE

And this is what I preach when I coach the youth hockey teams.

[New Tradition]

I think Coach Thorne would say something like, "I don't care one way or another with the COY award, our team has been in the playoffs 3 straight years now and that's all that matters."
He doesn't strike me as a coach that looks at individual honors and awards like some other coaches in this league do.

On top of this, I believe that if Coach Thorne DID get the award, he would not even take credit for it.  He has always been one to give all credit to the players for a victory, and for a loss he takes all of the blame.  I believe the same would hold true if he won a COY award.  He would give credit to the players and his assistants.  I can remember several instances when we lost and he apologized profusely to the team for not having us ready, when clearly we just didn't make the plays that we needed to in order to put ourselves in a position to win the ball game.  It takes a special person to deflect any attempt by anyone to glorify him despite all of the achievements that he has had since entering the college coaching ranks.  Award or no, Coach Thorne is a fantastic coach with an incredible attitude, whom I model myself after as a coach.

edited for spelling and grammar

[washdupcard]

I am glad the CCIW gave the COY award to Eash.  This is not a knock on Thorne, he is a great coach and well deserving, however what Eash did this year is not easy.  He took a team that was picked in no man's land in the CCIW and brought them to the top.  That's COY material and a well deserved honor for Normy.

Congratulations to the All-Conference Selections and to the Bluejays! That made the lists. 

While I understand the logic behind this sentiment (which many have raised on this board discussing this topic), I do not find it entirely logical.  Just because a coach defied other people's expectations of what his team should accomplish, doesn't in and of its self mean that he was dealing with a poor team and that it was simply his coaching brilliance that caused them to win.

Could a more plausible explanation be that the other coaches,  the D3football.com staff, and posters on this website didn't realize how much talent IWU really had on their team?

[Titan Q]

I am glad the CCIW gave the COY award to Eash.  This is not a knock on Thorne, he is a great coach and well deserving, however what Eash did this year is not easy.  He took a team that was picked in no man's land in the CCIW and brought them to the top.  That's COY material and a well deserved honor for Normy.

Congratulations to the All-Conference Selections and to the Bluejays! That made the lists. 

While I understand the logic behind this sentiment (which many have raised on this board discussing this topic), I do not find it entirely logical.  Just because a coach defied other people's expectations of what his team should accomplish, doesn't in and of its self mean that he was dealing with a poor team and that it was simply his coaching brilliance that caused them to win.

Could a more plausible explanation be that the other coaches,  the D3football.com staff, and posters on this website didn't realize how much talent IWU really had on their team?

I agree.  That is what I meant when I posted:

I personally don't think the Coach of the Year should be determined by who does best relative to the preseason coaches poll.  The coaches picked Illinois Wesleyan 7th, be we know now that the Titans did not have 7th place talent...turns out they had a loaded, senior-dominated defense and a young offense full of emerging playmakers.  Having seen both teams play, it seems that there is very little separation in talent between the two co-champs.  I guess I am saying it is not like Norm Eash took 7th place talent and tied for first, just as Augustana did not finish 5th with 2nd place (their preseason poll slot) talent.  The poll was wrong -- and I don't see how that should affect the Coach of the Year award.

I also don't think the IWU/NCC game should be the end all, be all either, as suggested above.  It was a very close game (much closer than 23-7 looks).  It was 13-7 with about 8:00 to play with IWU driving and a chance to take the lead.  Kraid Ladd threw a bad pass at about NCC's 25 yard line that was picked off.  NCC scored 10 points in the final 8:00 and won the game.  I don't think John Thorne out-coached Norm Eash in that ballgame...I think his players just made more plays that day.  Just as Mike Swider didn't out-coach Thorne in that head-to-head game - two good teams played and one team made a couple more plays.

The way I see it, this season John Thorne and Norm Eash both did everything a successful coach has to do.

* They recruited good players.
* They prepared the players.
* They coached the players.

In the end, over the course of the same CCIW schedule, they both finished 6-1.

It just seems impossible to me to distinguish who deserves the award -- seems like a co-Coach of the Year situation.  They both deserve it.

[usee]

I am glad the CCIW gave the COY award to Eash.  This is not a knock on Thorne, he is a great coach and well deserving, however what Eash did this year is not easy.  He took a team that was picked in no man's land in the CCIW and brought them to the top.  That's COY material and a well deserved honor for Normy.

Congratulations to the All-Conference Selections and to the Bluejays! That made the lists. 

While I understand the logic behind this sentiment (which many have raised on this board discussing this topic), I do not find it entirely logical.  Just because a coach defied other people's expectations of what his team should accomplish, doesn't in and of its self mean that he was dealing with a poor team and that it was simply his coaching brilliance that caused them to win.

Could a more plausible explanation be that the other coaches,  the D3football.com staff, and posters on this website didn't realize how much talent IWU really had on their team?

As I posted earlier, if Norm gets it because he finsihed tied for 1st when predicted 7th, how does a coach like thorne, predicted 3rd but finish 1st get it? my  vote was for Norm Eash because I don't agree with sharing the award and I had to pick one. Of course, as a wheaton guy I am going to pick the coach of the team who beat me not of the one I beat.

I don't agree that anyone could have known wesleyan was going to do better. As I posted earlier they had 18 starters coming back for 2006 and finished 3-7. after 5 straight losing conference seasons, who was going to pick them higher than 6th? that doesn't make any sense. But they were obviously a better team than anyone gave them credit for.

I guess the short answer is win em all and remove all doubt!

[usee]

I also offer my congratulations to the all conference performers. In particular Fanthorpe and ittersagen. I believe those two distanced themselves from the field with their performances. I will also mention Wenger from NCC because he was the best LB I saw all year among a very good 'backerhood' for the conference. On balance the selections for all conference were fair and appropriate.

[79jaybird]

New Tradition-
I gave you a karma notch for double digits.  Another 101 posts and you can return the favor. 

[New Tradition]

New Tradition-
I gave you a karma notch for double digits.  Another 101 posts and you can return the favor. 

Jaybird,
Much obliged, given how much I post, it may take me a while to get all the way to 200. 

[FormerCard]

I am glad the CCIW gave the COY award to Eash.  This is not a knock on Thorne, he is a great coach and well deserving, however what Eash did this year is not easy.  He took a team that was picked in no man's land in the CCIW and brought them to the top.  That's COY material and a well deserved honor for Normy.

Congratulations to the All-Conference Selections and to the Bluejays! That made the lists. 

While I understand the logic behind this sentiment (which many have raised on this board discussing this topic), I do not find it entirely logical.  Just because a coach defied other people's expectations of what his team should accomplish, doesn't in and of its self mean that he was dealing with a poor team and that it was simply his coaching brilliance that caused them to win.

Could a more plausible explanation be that the other coaches,  the D3football.com staff, and posters on this website didn't realize how much talent IWU really had on their team?

There could also be some popularity issues that we don't see... Lets be honest, as much as everyone bashes Norm on here, is that same way that Barnes, Swider, Rucks, etc. feel about him?  I don't know, because I am not them.  I do know he has been around a while and JT has not.  

The Cardinals have defeated IWU the last 5 seasons.

Wheaton lost the brass bell for the 1st time in a while a few years ago, shared a conference title last year with us and lost it to us this year.

When Thorne came to NC, he made the lamented cards that stated: (most of you alum will remember this)  "What have you done to beat Augie?"  From what I understand, this fired Barnes up a little.    We have also beat them 3 of the last 4 years.

Its very possible that Thorne is not a well-liked guy among the CCIW coaches because of the resurgence of the program and maybe the attitude that he portrays.

Any thoughts?

last thing... Good for IWU "coming out of nowhere" but if you ask any of those players...did they think they would finish 7th?  I highly doubt it and it was quite a motivator for them.  They had talent and the CCIW coaches helped put a chip on the shoulder.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I am glad the CCIW gave the COY award to Eash.  This is not a knock on Thorne, he is a great coach and well deserving, however what Eash did this year is not easy.  He took a team that was picked in no man's land in the CCIW and brought them to the top.  That's COY material and a well deserved honor for Normy.

Congratulations to the All-Conference Selections and to the Bluejays! That made the lists. 

While I understand the logic behind this sentiment (which many have raised on this board discussing this topic), I do not find it entirely logical.  Just because a coach defied other people's expectations of what his team should accomplish, doesn't in and of its self mean that he was dealing with a poor team and that it was simply his coaching brilliance that caused them to win.

Could a more plausible explanation be that the other coaches,  the D3football.com staff, and posters on this website didn't realize how much talent IWU really had on their team?

But you are overlooking the key factor I cited in my prediction: the coaches vote on COY, and the coaches expected IWU to finish 7th.

As you note, this does not logically mean that Eash was more deserving than Thorne (a debate I did not, and will not, enter).  But as a basis for predicting who would win, I found it quite compelling (and logical).

[New Tradition]

When Thorne came to NC, he made the lamented cards that stated: (most of you alum will remember this)  "What have you done to beat Augie?"  From what I understand, this fired Barnes up a little.    We have also beat them 3 of the last 4 years.

I still have mine!  Reminds me that no matter how bad things may seem at first (65-0 Augie my Freshman year) hard work can always turn them around (31-10 the other way 2 years later).

[usee]

playoff capsules are out:

http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/2007/capsules

[matblake]

Its very possible that Thorne is not a well-liked guy among the CCIW coaches because of the resurgence of the program and maybe the attitude that he portrays.

I can't say for sure, since I don't know any of them personally, but I'm thinking that the CCIW coaches at least don't act very cliquey, on the sidelines at least.  It just seems natural to give the COY award to the leader of a team that came from nowhere.  In 2003 Paul Krohn from Elmhurst shared COY with Swider.  Elmhurst had been 1-6 in conference play since 1999.  Jumping them up to 3-4 warranted the COY spot for him from 4 other coaches (assuming they can't vote for themselves although I couldn't find a rule that would prevent it).  Although Thorne was worthy of winning the award this year, the Cinderella story is hard to pass up.  

Also, remember that we don't get the votes published.  Thorne could have had 3 votes (4 votes would have meant a co-COY).

[washdupcard]

Just to clear up my post....I'm not even saying that Thorne deserved it over Eash.  There were some question marks about the Cardinal team coming into the season (mainly QB), but its not like the Cards had a talent shortage.

If anything, I kind of question a coaching staff that had the CCIW Offensive Player of the year platooning at QB the first few weeks of the season.  Obviously I wasn't around to see the Cards practice...I didn't see Fanthrope early in the year...maybe he was inconsistent and making stupid mistakes...but it does make one wonder.

[washdupcard]

I am glad the CCIW gave the COY award to Eash.  This is not a knock on Thorne, he is a great coach and well deserving, however what Eash did this year is not easy.  He took a team that was picked in no man's land in the CCIW and brought them to the top.  That's COY material and a well deserved honor for Normy.

Congratulations to the All-Conference Selections and to the Bluejays! That made the lists. 

While I understand the logic behind this sentiment (which many have raised on this board discussing this topic), I do not find it entirely logical.  Just because a coach defied other people's expectations of what his team should accomplish, doesn't in and of its self mean that he was dealing with a poor team and that it was simply his coaching brilliance that caused them to win.

Could a more plausible explanation be that the other coaches,  the D3football.com staff, and posters on this website didn't realize how much talent IWU really had on their team?

But you are overlooking the key factor I cited in my prediction: the coaches vote on COY, and the coaches expected IWU to finish 7th.

As you note, this does not logically mean that Eash was more deserving than Thorne (a debate I did not, and will not, enter).  But as a basis for predicting who would win, I found it quite compelling (and logical).

I don't think there is a correct answer to the debate.  I just wanted to stir the pot a little and offer an alternative point of view.