FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[ncc58]

  Nice try, but I'm not buying the line that state schools are financially restricted. Just looking at the facilities as presented on the UWW website will make anyone in the CCIW go WOW. That's one impressive stadium. And the other facilities look pretty good too. And you average 5000 per game. Any CCIW school would love to have one game with 5000 fans. Yeah, and you'll tell me most are students which are free. Ok.

I also look at your booster clubs. You have a National W Club. Umm, well, NCC doesn't, at least not for athletic fundraising. Both schools have a Quarterback Club. I've been a member of the NCC QC for several years. And it has grown considerably in the last 5-6 years. But just by viewing your website, I get the feeling that the UWW QC has a lot more members, has a lot  more events, and raises a lot more money.

doesn't hold water with me.  I am familiar with the academic money, (wink-wink,) thing that happens often.  State schools are financially restricted.  Just making the point about how this all impacts the, "they must be scared," mentality of many in the WIAC.

[Mugsy]

Only a few are really cocky about the game and it won't be the team or coaches.  Most of us know that anyone playing in the 12th week is not a pretender.  But, that said, it doesn't help the CCIW's rep in the WIAC when they all refuse to pick up the phone when WIAC teams call to schedule non-conference games.  Especially UWW which is a very reasonable bus ride away from most of your schools.

I think this is being a bit simplistic and a sweeping generalization.  For one thing some schools (like Wheaton) have their non-conference schedule mapped out 4-5 years ahead of time.   Second, some have challenging non-conference schedules setup already.  For instance, next year Wheaton plays CUW, Bethel and Hope.  With exception to Bethel, not top 20 teams... but 2 of 3 were in the playoff field this year.  The other, Hope, has been in the playoffs several times.

Augustana has played WIAC teams recently (the last 3-4 years).  

So that means all CCIW schools aren't answering their phones?  Gimme a break.

[footballfan413]

We were talking about tuition and cost of students to go to the school and more to the point, football players.  Tuition is cheaper at state schools than what is listed in the brochure of private schools but athletes rarely pay the price on paper at private schools.

Looks like a solid line-up for NCC.  Kudos for scheduling Ohio Northern. 
Again, not looking to beat the dead horse that is private vs. public.  Most schools in the CCIW have their reasons for avoiding the WIAC despite the great geographic proximity of the two conferences to each other.  I get that.  Just made  the point that until there is a little more willingness by the CCIW to test themselves against the WIAC, they shouldn't be surprised how it affects opinions, right or wrong.

 

[footballfan413]

Oh, and you are right.  I shouldn't have said, "all."  Should have said most. Augie is willing to play UW-Platteville.

I already corrected the,"all," comment.

[footballfan413]

No offense intended, Guys. I try not to indulge in trash talk and hope it didn't come off that way.   I find this board to be one of the most respectful and knowledgable boards on the site.  Glad to have a reason to exchange ideas and happy to have a WIAC/CCIW match-up this weekend.  Safe travels to all who attend.  Parking lot is a great place to tailgate so come and enjoy it.  A smaller turnout is expected with the holiday weekend and students gone so come help us, Pack the Perk!"

[Mr. Ypsi]

The NCAA carefully monitors the "academic money (wink-wink)"; if athletes are not within a tight margin (+/- 4%, I think) of receiving the same scholarship money as non-athletes, the school will be in deep doo-doo.  Does it sometimes occur?  No doubt.  But if it is a regular pattern, probation here you come.

[Mugsy]

No offense intended, Guys. I try not to indulge in trash talk and hope it didn't come off that way.   I find this board to be one of the most respectful and knowledgable boards on the site.  Glad to have a reason to exchange ideas and happy to have a WIAC/CCIW match-up this weekend.  Safe travels to all who attend.  Parking lot is a great place to tailgate so come and enjoy it.  A smaller turnout is expected with the holiday weekend and students gone so come help us, Pack the Perk!"

I think more WIAC/CCIW match ups would be very interesting and exciting.  I'm more of the mindset of "if you want to be the best, you have to beat the best..."  I just don't think (maybe I'm naive) all CCIW schools are avoiding it.  (I know you have recognized Augie for playing WIAC teams) 

[Mr. Ypsi]

They can afford to lose a game or two out of conference and still win their league and AQ. 

So can a CCIW school.

Obviously true, but unlike MWC or (now-defunct) IBC schools, several (at least) CCIW schools would also want to keep pool C chances alive.  I too would like to see more WIAC-CCIW matchups (especially in bball, where they are nip-and-tuck for top conference most years), but for the near future, UWW may not be the WIAC team to get started with in fball!

[formerd3db]

fbfan413:

Most do at a school like Hope and also as Mr. Ypsi relates.

[footballfan413]

[
Obviously true, but unlike MWC or (now-defunct) IBC schools, several (at least) CCIW schools would also want to keep pool C chances alive.  I too would like to see more WIAC-CCIW matchups (especially in bball, where they are nip-and-tuck for top conference most years), but for the near future, UWW may not be the WIAC team to get started with in fball!

I don't know......,they graduate 24 seniors this year.    Large number because it is two classes, the last year for the 2003 red-shirts and the true 4 year seniors. 

Let me be clear, did not mean to imply cheating when I talked about academic money, (wink, wink,)  But there is a larger academic pool of money that can be used to reward more of the student population in general for academics though reduced tuition at private schools and therefore athletes benefit also.  Example: a student decides between paying a $14K a year state tuition bill or can go to a private school where the annual tuition bill is $24K but at that school his 26 ACT gets him a $9K a year reduction.  All on the up and up but this practice does take away the arguement that private schools lose athletes to state schools because their tuition is so much higher, doesn't it? 

[BoBo]

No offense intended, Guys. I try not to indulge in trash talk and hope it didn't come off that way.   I find this board to be one of the most respectful and knowledgable boards on the site.  Glad to have a reason to exchange ideas and happy to have a WIAC/CCIW match-up this weekend.  Safe travels to all who attend.  Parking lot is a great place to tailgate so come and enjoy it.  A smaller turnout is expected with the holiday weekend and students gone so come help us, Pack the Perk!"

I think more WIAC/CCIW match ups would be very interesting and exciting.  I'm more of the mindset of "if you want to be the best, you have to beat the best..."  I just don't think (maybe I'm naive) all CCIW schools are avoiding it.  (I know you have recognized Augie for playing WIAC teams) 

ff413, I would never disagree with you, especially here because I think you make many valid points, but other than Whitewater and to a lesser degree Platteville or Oshkosh, which WIAC schools are within a reasonable drivng distance for the CCIW schools?  I don't know the exact milage, but it's probably a better idea for them to schedule schools in Michigan or Ohio than it is, say, Stout, Eau Claire, River Falls, etc. don't you think? 

[Mr. Ypsi]

State schools give academic scholarships too, you know.  My son is at Eastern Michigan (not a varsity athlete, though maybe he would have been if they hadn't dropped soccer! ) and has 2 scholarships he didn't even apply for (totaling c. $4,500 a year)!  (And he's not a 'superstar' academically - don't recall for sure, but 26 ACT and about a 3.6 GPA seems about right.)  Trying to argue that the net cost of public vs. private schools is fairly even is not going to get you very far (too many bill-paying parents in the room)!

[footballfan413]

Ok, guys, I give!  Didn't plan on getting into the ole' private vs public debate.  I know that public schools give academic scholarships but highly doubt that every kid with a 26 ACT gets $9K upon admission.   I have written my share of tuition checks also.

BoBo,  Point well taken.  West side of Wisconsin maybe too far for some but it seems that at least 4 of the WIAC schools are within 2-5 hours hours of the CCIW schools located in the Chicago area.  I would include UW-Stevens Point in your list.  Carthage flew to California for a non-conference game this season for crying out loud.   

Anyway, dead horse..........being beat!  8)

[Gregory Sager]

We were talking about tuition and cost of students to go to the school and more to the point, football players.  Tuition is cheaper at state schools than what is listed in the brochure of private schools but athletes rarely pay the price on paper at private schools.

Perhaps so up front, but a lot of them are taking out loans that will take up to ten years to pay off. WIAC student-athletes don't have that same problem.

Let me be clear, did not mean to imply cheating when I talked about academic money, (wink, wink,)  But there is a larger academic pool of money that can be used to reward more of the student population in general for academics though reduced tuition at private schools and therefore athletes benefit also.  Example: a student decides between paying a $14K a year state tuition bill or can go to a private school where the annual tuition bill is $24K but at that school his 26 ACT gets him a $9K a year reduction.  All on the up and up but this practice does take away the arguement that private schools lose athletes to state schools because their tuition is so much higher, doesn't it?

That's a sweeping generalization, ff413. There are plenty of D3 private schools that don't have enough money in the endowment to put together a financial aid budget that will knock off that much money from the tuition bill -- and even the ones that do aren't nearly as generous as you're implying. Perhaps there are instances here or there of a student-athlete with a high ACT or high class rank who will get that much knocked off of his bill, but that certainly isn't the case for all of them. In fact, I regularly hear griping from Wheaton people (Wheaton's the CCIW institution that has by far the largest endowment of our eight schools) that their school is not as competitive with financial aid as it should be.

[footballfan413]

You are right, Greg.  I have painted private schools with too broad a brush.  My opinion was swayed by letters that came through my mailbox many years ago from several CCIW schools. One painted that exact same scenio and also said that if the ACT was a 28, that the grant would be $11K off the tuition every year for 4 years.    I am sure that isn't the case with every school.  But you are guilty of the same in your first statement.  Why would you say that WIAC athletes don't need to take out student loans because they only have to pay a state tuition bill?  I know plenty that do.  Anyway, I hate to be the reason that a board gets off the football track so forgive me.  How many of you will be making the trip to Perk on Sat?  Beats putting up Christmas lights, doesn't it?