FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[wheels81]

I know there were some new rules added to college football this but I didn't think the yard line markers changed but given the press release from the Bethel/Wheaton game......."Bethel punted the ball to Wheaton All-American Pete Ittersagen at the Wheaton 65-yard line and Ittersagen scampered 65 yards,..."

[CCIW]

Wheaton got real lucky on that score. 

Right, and I'm sure it was also by pure luck that he was named an All-American return man.

I do agree that it would have been nice to see such a great matchup played under better conditions, but a win is a win and bad weather, like it or not, is part of the game.

Did you watch the return?  The Bethel special team guys were falling down, unable to cut to make the tackle.  Nice return by our All American player, but there is no way that would have happened with a field in reasonable condition.  Sometimes you get lucky when a game is dictated by the weather.  I think Bethel was a better team and the game stats show that.   

[Mugsy]

Wheaton got real lucky on that score. 

Right, and I'm sure it was also by pure luck that he was named an All-American return man.

I do agree that it would have been nice to see such a great matchup played under better conditions, but a win is a win and bad weather, like it or not, is part of the game.

Did you watch the return?  The Bethel special team guys were falling down, unable to cut to make the tackle.  Nice return by our All American player, but there is no way that would have happened with a field in reasonable condition.  Sometimes you get lucky when a game is dictated by the weather.  I think Bethel was a better team and the game stats show that.   

I'm not sure we know which team is better.  Poor field conditions level the "playing field" considerably.  Making statements as to how it would have played out on a dry field (in either direction) is purely conjecture. 

Looking at Bethel stats, it's not like they were setting the world on fire either.  You can win nearly every statistical category, but if you turn the ball over more times against comparable opponents, more often than not you will lose - even if you look like a superior team.

BTW: Luck plays a role in virtually every game regardless of conditions - sometimes in a small way, sometimes in a significant way.

The last comment I have is... how can you be so sure that Ittersagen wouldn't have returned a punt on a dry field when all players have sure footing.  He has done so a number of times before, and if I were a betting man he'll do so again this year.

[usee]

Wheaton got real lucky on that score. 

Right, and I'm sure it was also by pure luck that he was named an All-American return man.

I do agree that it would have been nice to see such a great matchup played under better conditions, but a win is a win and bad weather, like it or not, is part of the game.

Did you watch the return?  The Bethel special team guys were falling down, unable to cut to make the tackle.  Nice return by our All American player, but there is no way that would have happened with a field in reasonable condition.  Sometimes you get lucky when a game is dictated by the weather.  I think Bethel was a better team and the game stats show that.   

Your opinion is yours and you are entitled to it. Ittersagen had the same footing as the would be tacklers. I saw the return and the amazing thing is Wheaton had a block on so there were no blockers for Pete other than the hold up on the bullets. The middle coverage lanes were nothing but Bethel players. He did what he has done for the last couple years, made people miss.

No way you could tell who was a better team. You could tell they were pretty evenly matched but the weather minimized the ability to make big plays.

[washdupcard]

I'm curious why Wheaton jumped North Central from week 1 to week 2.  I know it doesn't matter...I'm just curious.  Both team won against ranked teams.  Any thoughts?  Pat, any insight?

[Mr. Ypsi]

Wheaton got real lucky on that score. 

Right, and I'm sure it was also by pure luck that he was named an All-American return man.

I do agree that it would have been nice to see such a great matchup played under better conditions, but a win is a win and bad weather, like it or not, is part of the game.

Did you watch the return?  The Bethel special team guys were falling down, unable to cut to make the tackle.  Nice return by our All American player, but there is no way that would have happened with a field in reasonable condition.  Sometimes you get lucky when a game is dictated by the weather.  I think Bethel was a better team and the game stats show that.   

I'm not sure we know which team is better.  Poor field conditions level the "playing field" considerably.  Making statements as to how it would have played out on a dry field (in either direction) is purely conjecture. 

Looking at Bethel stats, it's not like they were setting the world on fire either.  You can win nearly every statistical category, but if you turn the ball over more times against comparable opponents, more often than not you will lose - even if you look like a superior team.
BTW: Luck plays a role in virtually every game regardless of conditions - sometimes in a small way, sometimes in a significant way.

The last comment I have is... how can you be so sure that Ittersagen wouldn't have returned a punt on a dry field when all players have sure footing.  He has done so a number of times before, and if I were a betting man he'll do so again this year.

Excellent point, Mugsy.  Just compare to Michigan-Notre Dame - Michigan won EVERY statistical comparison except TOs and score.  Who's better?  I'd still say Michigan, but Notre Dame still gets the W.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I'm curious why Wheaton jumped North Central from week 1 to week 2.  I know it doesn't matter...I'm just curious.  Both team won against ranked teams.  Any thoughts?  Pat, any insight?

I was mildly surprised as well, but Wheaton beat #5, while ONU was 16th.  (On the other hand, Bethel lost by 3, ONU by 17, so voters would have to answer this themselves.)

[CardinalAlum]

I wasn't surprised.   When you beat # 5 instead of #17, it should be weighted heavier.  Who cares at this point.  It is going to come down to who beats who come conference games.

[matblake]

I'm curious why Wheaton jumped North Central from week 1 to week 2.  I know it doesn't matter...I'm just curious.  Both team won against ranked teams.  Any thoughts?  Pat, any insight?

In my opinion, the combination of Wheaton beating then #5 Bethel, and Wesley who was #3 last week losing to Delaware Valley, and UW-Eau Claire losing to Whitewater allowed Wheaton to jump North Central.  The points that had been assigned to Bethel, Wesley, and UWEC were assigned elsewhere.  You had 3 teams that had previously ranked above NCC and Wheaton that dropped.  North Central jumped up 3 spots (ie the Bethel, Wesley, and UWEC losses).  Had Wesley won its game I don't think there would have been enough votes for Wheaton to jump the Cards this week.  

[usee]

I'm curious why Wheaton jumped North Central from week 1 to week 2.  I know it doesn't matter...I'm just curious.  Both team won against ranked teams.  Any thoughts?  Pat, any insight?

In my opinion, the combination of Wheaton beating then #5 Bethel, and Wesley who was #3 last week losing to Delaware Valley, and UW-Eau Claire losing to Whitewater allowed Wheaton to jump North Central.  The points that had been assigned to Bethel, Wesley, and UWEC were assigned elsewhere.  You had 3 teams that had previously ranked above NCC and Wheaton that dropped.  North Central jumped up 3 spots (ie the Bethel, Wesley, and UWEC losses).  Had Wesley won its game I don't think there would have been enough votes for Wheaton to jump the Cards this week.  

That's as good a theory as any. I was very surprised by Wheaton's jump of NCC given NCC was higher AND the coaches picked NCC to win the CCIW. But I think Matblake has a point that more votes than usual were available and Wheaton does have a slightly longer (and possibly stronger) reputation with voters than NCC.

[Mugsy]

I'm curious why Wheaton jumped North Central from week 1 to week 2.  I know it doesn't matter...I'm just curious.  Both team won against ranked teams.  Any thoughts?  Pat, any insight?

In my opinion, the combination of Wheaton beating then #5 Bethel, and Wesley who was #3 last week losing to Delaware Valley, and UW-Eau Claire losing to Whitewater allowed Wheaton to jump North Central.  The points that had been assigned to Bethel, Wesley, and UWEC were assigned elsewhere.  You had 3 teams that had previously ranked above NCC and Wheaton that dropped.  North Central jumped up 3 spots (ie the Bethel, Wesley, and UWEC losses).  Had Wesley won its game I don't think there would have been enough votes for Wheaton to jump the Cards this week.  

That's as good a theory as any. I was very surprised by Wheaton's jump of NCC given NCC was higher AND the coaches picked NCC to win the CCIW. But I think Matblake has a point that more votes than usual were available and Wheaton does have a slightly longer (and possibly stronger) reputation with voters than NCC.

I was surprised.  I had NCC in the wildcard pick based on the fact I didn't think Wheaton would jump NCC.

[matblake]

I'm curious why Wheaton jumped North Central from week 1 to week 2.  I know it doesn't matter...I'm just curious.  Both team won against ranked teams.  Any thoughts?  Pat, any insight?

In my opinion, the combination of Wheaton beating then #5 Bethel, and Wesley who was #3 last week losing to Delaware Valley, and UW-Eau Claire losing to Whitewater allowed Wheaton to jump North Central.  The points that had been assigned to Bethel, Wesley, and UWEC were assigned elsewhere.  You had 3 teams that had previously ranked above NCC and Wheaton that dropped.  North Central jumped up 3 spots (ie the Bethel, Wesley, and UWEC losses).  Had Wesley won its game I don't think there would have been enough votes for Wheaton to jump the Cards this week.  

That's as good a theory as any. I was very surprised by Wheaton's jump of NCC given NCC was higher AND the coaches picked NCC to win the CCIW. But I think Matblake has a point that more votes than usual were available and Wheaton does have a slightly longer (and possibly stronger) reputation with voters than NCC.

Imagine if Eau Claire had beaten Whitewater.  Things would have really been shaken up then. 

[CardinalAlum]

Usee.....are you kidding?  Have you ever played on slippery field?  Ittersagen didn't need any blocking because the tacklers got no footing to make the play.  On a wet slippery field the runner has a huge advantage because he is NOT in react mode...he dictating play by what he is proacively doing.  The kicking team must react and shift their weight quickly which causes footing issues.  Watch the tape.  It is my opinion that Bethel was the superior team and they would have won on a reasonable field.  You don't want to share that opinion because you are a Wheaton loyalist,, but so am I and I think got lucky with a wet field of play.  My opinion.....and by the way, it was the opinion of the people around me.   

So what exactly are you arguing?  Wheaton isn't that good?  Ittersagen?  Both?  Ittersagen is one of the best I have seen in this conference and he has made a lot of people miss in his career.  Just because the field was wet, doesn't mean that it was easy to return it all the way.  I know, I didn't see it, but I somehow doubt that everyone slipped and the whole punt team was slipping on the turf.  Can't believe I'm defending a Wheatie against another Wheatie!! 

[CardinalAlum]

Hey, you can't delete a post that I am responding to!  Well, I guess you can, but it makes it harder for me to disagree! 

[usee]

Hey, you can't delete a post that I am responding to!  Well, I guess you can, but it makes it harder for me to disagree! 

Maybe he disagreed with himself?

CCIW, to answer your deleted question--what does it matter if I have played on a slippery field? There were 7 unblocked Bethel guys on the same wet surface as ittersagen. The kid made a play. he's been making them for a while if you care to notice. I have no opinion if Bethel is better than Wheaton and I don't see how you could either based on what we saw. They only scored 7 pts.

If my uncle wore a dress, he'd be my aunt.