FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Mr. Ypsi]

Tailgater, I'm pretty sure it was Woody Hays who said "There are three things that can happen when you pass, and two of them are bad."

I've heard that quote attributed to Vince Lombardi, and since both coached in nearly the same era, both probably said it at least once.

I've heard it attributed to Bear Bryant.  It would fit with any of the 3 guys mentioned.  Probably someone who preceded them came up with the saying, and they all said it at some point in their careers.

I've seen it attributed online to Bear Bryant, Duffy Daugherty, Woody Hayes (I noticed that Chuck, perhaps as a sign of his Maize and Blue loyalty, misspelled the great Ohio State coach's name ), and General Robert Neyland.

Ironically, I first typed it as Hayes, but that didn't look right, so I dropped the 'e'!

To me, he will always just be 'Woody' (just as there is no need to struggle over Schembechler, when just 'Bo' is enough).  RIP both 'evil one' and 'St. Bo'!

[79jaybird]

OK, I am going to throw a curve ball here this morning.  We have highlighted the turnovers and negative stats with penalties and such.  Which CCIW school in your opinion(s) plays the cleanest, most fundamentally sound football? 

[New Tradition]

OK, I am going to throw a curve ball here this morning.  We have highlighted the turnovers and negative stats with penalties and such.  Which CCIW school in your opinion(s) plays the cleanest, most fundamentally sound football? 

To me, the school with the good women's soccer program seems to be playing very good football.  Mugsy keeps highlighting how he thinks that the Crusaders are ranked too high, but even an inferior team (I don't believe for a second that they are) will surprise teams that are perhaps more talented but aren't as well coached and disciplined.  There is a reason this team beats quality opponents like Augie and Bethel.

[CardinalAlum]

I think the statement is more that Elmhurst is not that far away from jumping into the top 4.  

Here we go again......

[NCC.2008]

I think the statement is more that Elmhurst is not that far away from jumping into the top 4.  

Here we go again......

Over the past 5 years Jaybird has been doing the same thing again and again. Elmhurst starts out with non-conference schedule that even North Park could go 3 and 0 with, and then wins a conference game against Carthage, or maybe Milikin and Jaybird goes all gun ho about how good Elmhurst is and how they are this close to getting into the top 4 of the conference. He fails to remember that just a week ago they got pounded by an Augie team 42-6, who then got soundly beaten by a Wheaton team by the score of 26-14. To make it even more interesting he is choosing Carthage over NCC this week in the Pickems. Do you really think that Elmhurst is that much better than NCC that a team you guys beat, we will lose to?

[CardinalAlum]

Remember last year, when the coaching staff tried as hard as they could to make Kniss the starter over Fanthorpe, when clearly, Fanthorpe deserved to be? It cost them the game against Wash U. last year.

Now that was a cheap shot!  Do you think it's fair to put the blame on one kid for a loss?  Last I checked, we played with 11 on offense and 11 on defense against WashU.  For you to put the blame on one kid is irresponsible and unfair.  Kyle is a great kid who has worked his butt off for the program, even in his current role.  Many kids wouldn't have come back to play a senior year knowing they were going to be a backup.  We all know the kids read these boards, too.  Take a moment to think about that before you single a kid out on here like that.

[Mugsy]

I think the statement is more that Elmhurst is not that far away from jumping into the top 4.  

Here we go again......

lol... jaybirds optimism soars into the stratosphere.  

[79jaybird]

"Do you really think that Elmhurst is that much better than NC that a team you guys beat, we will lose to?

I picked Carthage for this reason.  Nothing makes a team play harder and more desperate than losing a game at home, homecoming, etc.  on a game that you had inthe bag for 90% of the time. I think Carthage is going to go to Naperville with nothing to lose and play their hearts out.  Will they win?  I don't know.  But I DO know that Rucks & Co. are going to be ready to give the Cards everything they can.  Nobody expected EC to upset Carthage, just like (I'm sure) not too many are going to pick Carthage over NC.  Fact is, anybody could beat anybody-any given Saturday in this conference. 
Just like, if Elmhurst thinks it's going to be a walk in the park for their HC against North Park, they could be in danger of an upset. 
And to top it off, If you notice, my confidence # was 1, meaning I wasn't very sure this is/was going to happen.

[Comet 14]

OK, I am going to throw a curve ball here this morning.  We have highlighted the turnovers and negative stats with penalties and such.  Which CCIW school in your opinion(s) plays the cleanest, most fundamentally sound football? 

I will rank the top 3, Wheaton then Wheaton then Wheaton. It's not even close.

[CardinalAlum]

OK, I am going to throw a curve ball here this morning.  We have highlighted the turnovers and negative stats with penalties and such.  Which CCIW school in your opinion(s) plays the cleanest, most fundamentally sound football? 

I will rank the top 3, Wheaton then Wheaton then Wheaton. It's not even close.

Ditto.

[Comet 14]

As far as Elmhurst " jumping into the top 4 " I think that if we lose only to Wheaton and NCC the rst of the way that puts us in the top 4 and gives Elmhurst that 7th win that they have not been able to get in recent years. That being said They would still IMO be a long wasy from the top 3. Now if they can pull out a win against NCC or Wheaton ( and I hope they do) we can talk about bigger and better things to come.

[79jaybird]

My goal for Elmhurst the last 3-4 years has been to reach that 7-win plateau, something we haven't reached since 1985 under Bruce Hoffman.  Paul Krohn came close in his final year, Journell had 2 shots, and we will see if Tim Lester can get it. 
Recall, that when I was playing a 500 season was our goal and that was 1999-00.  So the program has jumped from the basement to the middle and is still waiting to try and peck their way into the top tier which begins by winning that 7th game, or beating the frontrunners more consistently.

[wheels81]

Congrats to the Thunder's Shane Woodward and Tim Ellingsen as they were selected CCIW players of week on defense and special teams respectively.

Tim should be a good candidate for Pat's Team of the week as well.

[Mugsy]

OK, I am going to throw a curve ball here this morning.  We have highlighted the turnovers and negative stats with penalties and such.  Which CCIW school in your opinion(s) plays the cleanest, most fundamentally sound football? 

I will rank the top 3, Wheaton then Wheaton then Wheaton. It's not even close.

Not to throw too big of a wrench into this... but Wheaton historially has been in the lower half of the turnover ratio.  In fact in most years Wheaton has a negative ratio.  This has been pointed out numerous times, particularly when Wheaton gets into the playoffs.  Turnovers in playoff games against Mount Union has absolutely killed Wheaton - at least half occurring in the Mount Union red-zone.

Another area Wheaton hasn't alway excelled in terms of execution is penalties.  There are years when Wheaton is one of the higher penalized teams.

Now... I do think there are other factors involved (that may also apply to Carthage this year) in turnovers and penalties.  Often teams that are very aggressive with play calling and that take chances every now then, accumulate more turnovers and penalties.  I don't have any facts necessarily to back this up, other than there are numerous teams at all levels that are documented to be very well coached and very discipled, yet they incure more penalties and turnovers than the average team.

I do believe Wheaton is a very well coached, very disciplined, very fundamentally sound team - I've experienced it as a player and a coach.   Other CCIW schools are as well, though I do not have as much direct exposure to comment on.  I go to the Wheaton game against NCC, Augie and IWU most every year, and from what I could see, they are very fundamental as well.

I'm not getting into the "cleanest" discussion because that always spirals into one persons view against another with little explicit support to either.

[cardinaldad]

Remember last year, when the coaching staff tried as hard as they could to make Kniss the starter over Fanthorpe, when clearly, Fanthorpe deserved to be? It cost them the game against Wash U. last year.

Now that was a cheap shot!  Do you think it's fair to put the blame on one kid for a loss?  Last I checked, we played with 11 on offense and 11 on defense against WashU.  For you to put the blame on one kid is irresponsible and unfair.  Kyle is a great kid who has worked his butt off for the program, even in his current role.  Many kids wouldn't have come back to play a senior year knowing they were going to be a backup.  We all know the kids read these boards, too.  Take a moment to think about that before you single a kid out on here like that.

Definitely a cheap shot! If the blame should have been on anyone it was Coach Jeff Thorne for calling the screen late in the fourth quarter that resulted in Wash U being able to win that game. Actually, Coach Jeff stood in front of the team and apologized for making that call to cost us the game. Also, don't forget that Wash U converted a 4th and long for a TD against the Defense in that game. Blaming that loss on Kyle who is not only a great kid, but a great leader is uncalled for.

Guys, you are taking this post totally out of context and running with it. No where was Kyle Kniss blamed for the loss against Wash U. Not one specific play was mentioned in my post as NCC.2008 mentions. The statement was a generalization that has been stated on this board a number of times. The offense performs better with Fanthorpe under center. To many, it was evident, even early last year that Fanthorpe should have been named the starter. Like you yourself said NCC.2008, put the blame on the coaching staff. THAT was the context of the post. Read the entire post, not just a portion of it. I never blamed Kniss in this post. I agree, he works his butt off and is a leader. He is a fine young man and a good football player. I have nothing but respect for the Kniss family from the top down. Don't put words in my mouth.
CardAlum, you are correct. I'm not sure that many, but some players would quit when put in a situation like that. One of the qb's that was in the qb derby, indeed, did not return when Kniss was put into the mix. Re-read the post. It was not a knock on Kniss. It was a knock on the coaching staff. I have too much respect for any football player, on any level, to stoop to that level.