FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

Too bad, as he's been on a real winning streak in this decade.

Which, for a Cubs fan, is no mean feat.

Does a Twins fan really want to pick up that rock while standing in front of that nice and shiny new glass house just built for him by the Guillen Construction Co.?

[Pat Coleman]

I'll take Minnesota World Series championships in my lifetime vs. both Chicago teams in your lifetime.

[Gregory Sager]

I'll take Minnesota World Series championships in my lifetime vs. both Chicago teams in your lifetime.

I'll raise you all Chicago championships in either of our lifetimes vs. all Minnesota championships in either of our lifetimes.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I'll take Minnesota World Series championships in my lifetime vs. both Chicago teams in your lifetime.

I'll raise you all Chicago championships in either of our lifetimes vs. all Minnesota championships in either of our lifetimes.

I'll just raise you three words:  "Pistons / Red Wings"

We won't be crude enough to mention Tigers / Lions, will we?

[Mugsy]

Perhaps these will provide some insight, perhaps not...

CCIW individuals and teams in DIII National Rankings for week #6:

Category	Team	Individual	Rank	Value
Rushing
	Wheaton	Rocky Gingg	34	111.40 ypg
	NCC	Dominic Sulo	60	92.60 ypg
Passing Eff.
	Wheaton	Sean Norris	9	171.1
	NCC	Aaron Fanthorpe	10	170.0
	Carthage	Evan Jones	40	146.9
	IWU	Kraig Ladd	51	139.4
	NPU	Shelby Wood	59	136.0
	Elmhurst	Chris Kudyba	62	133.4
	Augustana	Tim Podulka	91	124.1
Total Offense
	Carthage	Evan Jones	4	345.0 ypg
	Elmhurst	Chris Kudyba	39	253.4 ypg
	NCC	Aaron Fanthorpe	76	216.0 ypg
	Wheaton	Sean Norris	78	214.2 ypg
	IWU	Chris Ladd	89	209.4 ypg
Receptions Per Game
	IWU	Martin Ceisel	24	7.20 rpg
	Elmhurst	Matt D'Angelo	30	7.00 rpg
	Carthage	Nick Merchut	30	7.00 rpg
	Carthage	Jeff Koeneman	38	6.60 rpg
	Carthage	Jake Smith	89	5.40 rpg
Receiving
	Carthage	Nick Merchut	9	126.20 ypg
	Elmhurst	Matt D'Angelo	9	119.60 ypg
	Carthage	Jeff Koeneman	27	103.80 ypg
	IWU	Martin Ceisel	30	102.20 ypg
	Wheaton	Alex Pokorny	51	89.60 ypg
Punting
	Elmhurst	Tyler Lomnicki	27	40.35 ypp
	Millikin	Chris Hunt	32	39.62 ypp
Punt Returns
	Wheaton	Pete Ittersagen	1	23.60 ypr
	NCC	Joseph Rubin	6	18.50 ypr
	NCC	Joe Schneiderbauer	31	12.62 ypr
	Elmhurst	Matt D'Angelo	38	11.50 ypr
	IWU	Eli Williams	70	9.60 ypr
	Millikin	Kody Smith	80	8.27 ypr
	Carthage	Dan O'Donnell	93	8.17 ypr
Passing
	Carthage	Evans Jones	7	1627 yards
	Elmhurst	Chris Kudyba	34	1300 yards
	IWU	Kraid Ladd	55	1114 yards
	NPU	Shelby Wood	76	1006 yards
Passing Per Game
	Carthage	Evans Jones	5	334.40 ypg
	Elmhurst	Chris Kudyba	25	260.00 ypg
	IWU	Kraig Ladd	52	222.80 ypg
	NPU	Shelby Wood	82	201.20 ypg
	NCC	Aaron Fanthorpe	99	182.25 ypg
Tackles
	Elmhurst	Randy Wright	7	12.80 tpg
	NCC	Matthew Wenger	32	10.80 tpg
	IWU	Nick Nikolich	93	9.20 tpg
Rushing Offense
	Wheaton		29	214.80 ypg
	NCC		41	194.20 ypg
	Augie		65	175.20 ypg
	IWU		140	126.20 ypg
	Carthage		155	115.40 ypg
	Millikin		172	107.00 ypg
	NPU		198	88.80 ypg
	Elmhurst		203	84.40 ypg
Passing Offense
	Carthage		1	394.00 ypg
	Elmhurst		32	261.80 ypg
	IWU		43	249.80 ypg
	NCC		75	215.00 ypg
	NPU		85	210.00 ypg
	Wheaton		105	198.20 ypg
	Millikin		150	165.20 ypg
	Augie		163	155.00 ypg
Total Offense
	Carthage		2	509.40 ypg
	Wheaton		35	413.00 ypg
	NCC		42	409.20 ypg
	IWU		68	376.00 ypg
	Elmhurst		99	346.20 ypg
	Augie		122	330.20 ypg
	NPU		163	298.80 ypg
	Millikin		196	272.20 ypg
Scoring
	Wheaton		21	37.40 ppg
	Carthage		28	35.20 ppg
	NCC		30	34.40 ppg
	IWU		34	34.00 ppg
	Elmhurst		88	25.60 ppg
	Augie		121	23.20 ppg
	NPU		160	19.80 ppg
	Millkin		170	19.00 ppg
Scoring Def
	NCC		3	8.40 ppg
	Augie		7	11.20 ppg
	Wheaton		14	11.80 ppg
	Elmhurst		81	20.40 ppg
	IWU		114	22.60 ypg
	Millikin		160	27.40 ppg
	Carthage		188	30.60 ypg
	NPU		202	33.20 ppg

[Pat Coleman]

I'll take Minnesota World Series championships in my lifetime vs. both Chicago teams in your lifetime.

I'll raise you all Chicago championships in either of our lifetimes vs. all Minnesota championships in either of our lifetimes.

Based on your extensive discussions of the Bulls and Blackhawks here in the past, no doubt. Yawn.

[Gregory Sager]

I'll take Minnesota World Series championships in my lifetime vs. both Chicago teams in your lifetime.

I'll raise you all Chicago championships in either of our lifetimes vs. all Minnesota championships in either of our lifetimes.

Based on your extensive discussions of the Bulls and Blackhawks here in the past, no doubt. Yawn.

The Blackhawks haven't won a Stanley Cup since JFK was in the White House, Pat, so it's not as though the Indianhead sweater is all that great of an asset to my argument. And I'll skip the Bulls and stick to the sports that I have discussed on this site. Plus, I'll stick to teams that have won championships within your lifetime:

pro baseball:
Minnesota 2, Chicago 1

pro football:
Chicago 1, Minnesota 0

college basketball:
Chicago 5, Minnesota 3

college football:
Minnesota 2, Chicago 0

college baseball:
Minnesota 1, Chicago 0

TOTAL:
Minnesota 8, Chicago 7

(I spared you mention of the Arena League football championship that the Chicago Rush won in '06. I am nothing if not a generous man, Patrick. )

However, I still claim a win on points, since you have to resort to using the Concordia-Moorhead women and the St. Thomas women in order to pull ahead.

I'll just raise you three words:  "Pistons / Red Wings"

We won't be crude enough to mention Tigers / Lions, will we?

Since you're invoking pro hockey and pro basketball, Chuck, you won't get off as easily as Pat. This is the comparison within my lifetime (since I have only the vaguest idea how many eons you've walked the earth) between Chicago and Detroit:

NFL:
Chicago 2, Detroit 0

NBA:
Chicago 6, Detroit 3

NHL:
Detroit 4, Chicago 1

MLB:
Detroit 2, Chicago 1

college basketball:
Chicago 6, Detroit 0

That's 16-9, Chicago. If you want to change it to Michigan vs. Illinois, sticking as per Pat to the common database of the sports that I discuss on this site, plus the two extra leagues that you threw in (NBA and NHL), then you get six more wins for college football (four for Grand Valley State, one apiece for Michigan and Michigan State), six more for college men's basketball (two apiece for Calvin and Michigan State, one apiece for Cornerstone and Michigan), three more for college women's basketball (two for Hope, one for Alma), one for college baseball (Michigan won a College World Series when I was a toddler), and two for college men's soccer (Michigan State shared a couple of titles in the late sixties). That boosts your score to 27.

Meanwhile, I get another credit for college men's basketball (Illinois Wesleyan -- feel the pain, Chuck ), two extra W's for college women's basketball (one apiece for North Central and Millikin), four for college baseball (three for Lewis and one for St. Francis) ... and then I lay down my trump card (am I doing this right, Mugsy? ), college men's soccer, and boost my score by seventeen more championships (Quincy, 11; Illinois-Springfield, 3; Wheaton, 2; and Eastern Illinois, 1). So I've got you by a healthy margin, 40-27. And I didn't even have to call upon the Northwestern women's lacrosse team or Wheaton's lady kickers to complete the Chuck's-preferred-sports beatdown.

[Dennis_Prikkel]

oy

i'm glad I grew up in the bronx and I don't have to read all this crop.

dgp 

meanwhile - back to the Cardinal wars.....

who'll be next with a word of praise for ....

[usee]

Looking at the Augie/IWU matchup:

before last week I would have favored Augie in this game pretty significantly. After seeing what Wheaton did to Augie in Rock Island I believe this matchup in Bloomington is close to a toss up but I would favor IWU.

I think the Titans recieving core is too hard to slow down. Their offense has been effective against everyone. Wheaton was successful running the ball right at Augie. I don't know what IWU's running game looks like these days but stretch plays and toss sweep may not be as successful against a viking defense that has speed but not size. Wheaton ran the ball downhill with a runningback who can break tackles. They eventually wore out Augie. I don't see IWU's offense as a wear em out kind of attack but they are diverse with a lot of talent. Offensively, I think Augie doesn't have much outside of Podulka. IWU will see the Wheaton film and defend them similarly. I would be aggressive with the short stuff Augie throws and make Podulka throw the ball down the field. You have to keep podulka in front of you, stay in your lanes and make him beat you. He usually beats you by taking advantage of your aggressiveness and making you miss/throwing it behind you. 

If Ladd completes 60% of his passes with 1 INT or less, I give the edge to IWU. Again, if the Titans can score 24 points they will win in my view. I'm going with IWU 31 Augie 21.

[usee]

Defensive players can look at the game with Carthage in two ways.

1. Wow, we better get our stuff together otherwise we'll give up 700 yards! Or ...

2. This is our chance to intercept 5 or 6 passes in one game!

or

3. All of the above

I think this matchup is pretty easy to predict. While there are many possible outcomes, the most likely outcome is a high scoring game where Carthage shoots themselves and lose by at least 2-3 TD's. The next most likely outcome is a high scoring Naperville team that frustrates and limits the Redmen and a game like last year up in Kenosha is the result. Third most likely is if both teams play well and you end up with a 48-44 outcome and least likely is a defensive battle with a low scoring game.

This is a polished and experienced Naperville offense with many weapons and a defense led by the best LB in the conference. The Carthage offense is young and potent but mistake prone and their defense isn't forcing the turnovers they have in the past but seem to be taking similar risks. They are giving up a lot of yards and just lost arguably their best player (Danny O'Donnell).

I think i'll take the birds over the indians 48-21

[Dennis_Prikkel]

Defensive players can look at the game with Carthage in two ways.

1. Wow, we better get our stuff together otherwise we'll give up 700 yards! Or ...

2. This is our chance to intercept 5 or 6 passes in one game!

or

3. All of the above

I think this matchup is pretty easy to predict. While there are many possible outcomes, the most likely outcome is a high scoring game where Carthage shoots themselves and lose by at least 2-3 TD's. The next most likely outcome is a high scoring Naperville team that frustrates and limits the Redmen and a game like last year up in Kenosha is the result. Third most likely is if both teams play well and you end up with a 48-44 outcome and least likely is a defensive battle with a low scoring game.

This is a polished and experienced Naperville offense with many weapons and a defense led by the best LB in the conference. The Carthage offense is young and potent but mistake prone and their defense isn't forcing the turnovers they have in the past but seem to be taking similar risks. They are giving up a lot of yards and just lost arguably their best player (Danny O'Donnell).

I think i'll take the birds over the indians 48-21

just a quick note - Carthage Red Men does not refer to indians (heaven forbid - here comes the NCAA politically correct goon squad)

they were originally called the Carthage Reds, thus to distinguish themselves from the Carthage Grays (of Mormon historic infamy).

I believe (not really sure) that it refered to a group of townspeople in the old downstate Illinois town of the same name.  I don't know what the affiliation stood for - or what they were a member for - but that it was a group of people.

dgp

[NCC.2008]

If you look at the statistics so far this season, one would think that it is going to be long day for Carthage this Saturday in Naperville.

SCORING DEFENSE     G   TD  XP 2XP DXP  FG Saf  Pts   Avg
--------------------------------------------------------------
1. North Central.......  5    6     3   1      0     2   0     47   9.4
7. Carthage............   5    21  16   1      0     3   0   153  30.6

PASS DEFENSE             G   Att  Cmp Int  Pct.  Yds  Avg TD Yds/G
------------------------------------------------------------------
2. North Central.......   5   163   89   5   54.6  878  5.4  3  175.6
8. Carthage............    5   208  101   9  48.6 1267  6.1 14 253.4

                                          |--Gained--|   |---Lost---|
TURNOVER MARGIN          G  Fum Int Tot Fum Int Tot Mar  Per/G
1. North Central.......        5    7     5  12   3      3   6  +6   1.20
8. Carthage............          5    3     9  12   8    16  24 -12  -2.40

TOTAL OFFENSE            G  Rush Pass Plays Yards Avg/P TD Yds/G
----------------------------------------------------------------
1. Carthage............       5   577 1970   430  2547   5.9   24   509.4
3. North Central.......      5   971 1075   318  2046   6.4   22  409.2

TOTAL DEFENSE            G  Rush Pass Plys Yards  Avg  TD Yds/G
---------------------------------------------------------------
1. North Central.......     5   314  878  309  1192  3.9    5    238.4
6. Carthage............       5   433 1267  384  1700  4.4  18   340.0


Across the board North Central is in the top 2 or 3 in every category where Carthage is in the bottom 2 or three. Carthage does have the advantage in Yards per game, but again they have turned the ball over 24 times, where as NCC has only had 6 turnovers this season. I think the big key to this game is if Fanthorpe plays or not. Kniss is good at managing the game and making the short passes, but he doesn't have the big play ability that Fanthorpe brings to the table. Either way I don't think that the Carthage defense is good enough from top to bottom to handle the air and ground attack that NCC is going to throw at them.

[usee]

Keep in mind Carthage has run over 100 more plays than Naperville and more than 65 more plays than the next highest team (IWU). thats more than a full game of stats. I would expect them to have a lot of yards. A better indicator is yds per play, which Naperville is 2nd to Wheaton with 6.4 and Carthage is 5.9. Carthage's quick passing game and spread sets stop the clock and lengthen the game. By nature their offense will generate more plays. But it often results in defending more plays too (carthage is worst in the conference at # of plays defended).

So, give a quality opponent (who happens to lead the conference in defense) more plays on offense, throw in a few turnovers and what do you get?

8)

[matblake]

Here are the current Rankings of Total Defense of the opponents of Carthage & The School with New Balance Uniforms

Carthage:                                                       
Hope 232
Lakeland 161
Campbell 115 (FCS 118 teams)
IWU 136
Elmhurst 36

New Balance Uniforms:
Ohio Northern 99
Benedictine 182
Olivet 120
Millikin 113
North Park 178

As far as rankings go, neither team has played a defensive stalwart outside of Elmhurst at this point.  Where the real eye opener is with the total defense for the competitors:
New Balance 8
Carthage 129

I think defense rules this one.  New Balance 37-Carthage 21

[New Tradition]

Here are the current Rankings of Total Defense of the opponents of Carthage & The School with New Balance Uniforms

Alright, I hate to admit it, but this one actually made me chuckle.