FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[usee]

7

[redman04]

I can speak from experience that, typically, Coach Thorne doesn't allow his teams to look past anyone.  

I hope your wrong!

I hope they look past Carthage this weekend and the redmen take advantage of it!  I will pick Carthage in the pick ems because I always do!

 
That being said, as I stated before, Carthage flat out scares me with their potential to put up huge points if they simply eliminate mistakes.  

This has the making of a trap game for NCC!  Again, I hope!  

[79jaybird]

How is Carthage's D?

The D-Linemen and LB's are very good, speedy, and smart.  Very stingy on their rush defense and in particular, their DT's are good at plugging up the middle of the line. 
Is O'Donnell going to be playing?   The reason I ask is when DOC was playing, the Red Men really clamped down and stopped the Elmhurst passing attack.  When DOC got hurt, the replacement corner had trouble controlling Elmhurst's D'Angelo and Long.

I think the Carthage defense matches up well with NC's offense because the Cardinals like to establish the run with Sulo.
I DO think the (2) factors in this game are turnovers and penalties, moreso pointing at Carthage with these two variables.  Carthage cannot give North Central Christmas in October 

[Carthage Fan]

Here are the current Rankings of Total Defense of the opponents of Carthage & The School with New Balance Uniforms

Carthage:                                                       
Hope 232
Lakeland 161
Campbell 115 (FCS 118 teams)
IWU 136
Elmhurst 36

New Balance Uniforms:
Ohio Northern 99
Benedictine 182
Olivet 120
Millikin 113
North Park 178

As far as rankings go, neither team has played a defensive stalwart outside of Elmhurst at this point.  Where the real eye opener is with the total defense for the competitors:
New Balance 8
Carthage 129

I think defense rules this one.  New Balance 37-Carthage 21

I have been challenged on my stat comparisons, but, I don't think you should compare defense stats without looking at the total offense stats of the opponents.  

Carthage
Hope  91
Lakeland  214
Campbell 117 (out of 118)
IWU  68
Elmhurst 99

NCC
ONU 212
Benedictine 232 (out of 235)
Olivet 151
Milikin 196
North Park 163

[matblake]

Back to the chicken or the egg, I guess.   

But seriously, I think that is a fair point.  I'm willing to attribute some of Carthage's lower ranking to having played some better offenses, but the gap between them is still large enough to take a look at.

[usee]

Carthage defense:

DL:
DE Annes    6'2" 220lbs JR
DT McNeice    5'11" 208lbs So
DT Radke     5'11" 225lbs  So
DE Harvey     6'2" 230lbs  So

LB:
Hughes      5'11" 225 Sr.
Hernandez     5'11" 220 lbs Sr
Busse     6' 206lbs  Jr

DB:
C O'Donnell Sr.
C  Williams Fr
S Bures Sr
S Brighwell Jr

O'Donnell may be hurt (he and bures are converted offensive players). Brett Hogen is also a player at safety (soph)

[usee]

Back to the chicken or the egg, I guess.   

But seriously, I think that is a fair point.  I'm willing to attribute some of Carthage's lower ranking to having played some better offenses, but the gap between them is still large enough to take a look at.

Its hard to know what to make of stats like these. If you took a look at Augie before last week's game vs Wheaton they were the best defense in the league and their defensive front numbers were very impressive. Now they are middle of the pack on defense statistically. Does that mean Wheaton is that good or Augie was not as good as we thought? Who knows. I thought Wheaton's weak spot was the their offensive line coming in to the season. Now with an average of 214 yds per game and no sacks it doesn't look too weak.

[TitanFan42]

I need to find a job like you guys have....
I barely have enough time to keep up with all the postings.....
I know.... tough to be me.
Keep up the good work and go Titans.

[matblake]

Back to the chicken or the egg, I guess.   

But seriously, I think that is a fair point.  I'm willing to attribute some of Carthage's lower ranking to having played some better offenses, but the gap between them is still large enough to take a look at.

Its hard to know what to make of stats like these. If you took a look at Augie before last week's game vs Wheaton they were the best defense in the league and their defensive front numbers were very impressive. Now they are middle of the pack on defense statistically. Does that mean Wheaton is that good or Augie was not as good as we thought? Who knows. I thought Wheaton's weak spot was the their offensive line coming in to the season. Now with an average of 214 yds per game and no sacks it doesn't look too weak.

Part of the difficulty in looking a conference rankings at this point in the season is that there have only been two conference games, not really enough conference games to have well rounded stats. 

[usee]

Back to the chicken or the egg, I guess.   

But seriously, I think that is a fair point.  I'm willing to attribute some of Carthage's lower ranking to having played some better offenses, but the gap between them is still large enough to take a look at.

Its hard to know what to make of stats like these. If you took a look at Augie before last week's game vs Wheaton they were the best defense in the league and their defensive front numbers were very impressive. Now they are middle of the pack on defense statistically. Does that mean Wheaton is that good or Augie was not as good as we thought? Who knows. I thought Wheaton's weak spot was the their offensive line coming in to the season. Now with an average of 214 yds per game and no sacks it doesn't look too weak.

Part of the difficulty in looking a conference rankings at this point in the season is that there have only been two conference games, not really enough conference games to have well rounded stats. 

For the record, I never look at conference only stats. All of my posts reference composite stats for all games. The problem is, while our conference had a good record in preseason play (19-5), we only beat 1 team with a winning record so we really don't know much about the relative strength of each team. After this weekend, we should be able to compare common opponents a little better, fwiw.

[Tailgater]

just a quick note - Carthage Red Men does not refer to indians (heaven forbid - here comes the NCAA politically correct goon squad)

they were originally called the Carthage Reds, thus to distinguish themselves from the Carthage Grays (of Mormon historic infamy).

I believe (not really sure) that it refered to a group of townspeople in the old downstate Illinois town of the same name.  I don't know what the affiliation stood for - or what they were a member for - but that it was a group of people.

dgp

Close, but not quite. Carthage men's athletic teams have carried the nickname "Red Men" since the 1920's. Refering to the color of their uniforms. The Red Men indeed have no association with Native Americans. Carthage originated in Carthage Illinois. The High School nickname was/is the "Blue Boys" taken from a nickname given to Union Soldiers based on the color of their uniforms. In keeping with that theme, the College adopted their nickname based on their red uniform and a higher maturity/age level of their student body...thus Red Men.

[Mugsy]

Back to the chicken or the egg, I guess.   

But seriously, I think that is a fair point.  I'm willing to attribute some of Carthage's lower ranking to having played some better offenses, but the gap between them is still large enough to take a look at.

Its hard to know what to make of stats like these. If you took a look at Augie before last week's game vs Wheaton they were the best defense in the league and their defensive front numbers were very impressive. Now they are middle of the pack on defense statistically. Does that mean Wheaton is that good or Augie was not as good as we thought? Who knows. I thought Wheaton's weak spot was the their offensive line coming in to the season. Now with an average of 214 yds per game and no sacks it doesn't look too weak.

Part of the difficulty in looking a conference rankings at this point in the season is that there have only been two conference games, not really enough conference games to have well rounded stats. 

Kinda why I opted to look at national rankings because there is more data to compare against and set relative value of ranking.

[ncc58]

All interesting, but then what was the deal with the feathers in the logo?

just a quick note - Carthage Red Men does not refer to indians (heaven forbid - here comes the NCAA politically correct goon squad)

they were originally called the Carthage Reds, thus to distinguish themselves from the Carthage Grays (of Mormon historic infamy).

I believe (not really sure) that it refered to a group of townspeople in the old downstate Illinois town of the same name.  I don't know what the affiliation stood for - or what they were a member for - but that it was a group of people.

dgp

Close, but not quite. Carthage men's athletic teams have carried the nickname "Red Men" since the 1920's. Refering to the color of their uniforms. The Red Men indeed have no association with Native Americans. Carthage originated in Carthage Illinois. The High School nickname was/is the "Blue Boys" taken from a nickname given to Union Soldiers based on the color of their uniforms. In keeping with that theme, the College adopted their nickname based on their red uniform and a higher maturity/age level of their student body...thus Red Men.

[robertgoulet]

All interesting, but then what was the deal with the feathers in the logo?

I believe that it is a reference to the drive to Kenosha. When crossing the IL/WI border, one is apt to hit a few birds, thus leaving feathers stuck to your car.

[matblake]

Part of the difficulty in looking a conference rankings at this point in the season is that there have only been two conference games, not really enough conference games to have well rounded stats.  

For the record, I never look at conference only stats. All of my posts reference composite stats for all games. The problem is, while our conference had a good record in preseason play (19-5), we only beat 1 team with a winning record so we really don't know much about the relative strength of each team. After this weekend, we should be able to compare common opponents a little better, fwiw.

Its hard to know what to make of stats like these. If you took a look at Augie before last week's game vs Wheaton they were the best defense in the league and their defensive front numbers were very impressive. Now they are middle of the pack on defense statistically.

I assumed from the 3rd quote above that you had looked at conference only stats.  However, that quote doesn't specifically say anything about conference only.  My bad.  

I do look at conference only stats about 4 games into conference play.  They are also useful for helping to interpret All-Conference selections since technically only conference stats are supposed to be used.