FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Tailgater]

JMHO----
RE: The the above Redmen vs Red Men discussion:

The nambie-pambies at the NCAA ought to find more constructive things to do with their time than to issue a blanket condemnation of all Indian related logos/images as being offensive to Native Americans. Was there any record of any individual Native American or Native American group filing a complaint? I sincerely doubt that when the Carthage administration chose the name Redmen, they did so with any intent or even thought of demeaning Native Americans in any way, shape, or form.

I realize the CC President and trustees had to change the name for economic reasons and to avoid sanctions after being backed into a corner by the NCAA. I do think it was pretty clever just to separate the Redmen name and make it Red Men. However, rather than Red Men, how do our CC posters feel about Flames, given that a flame is part of the school seal?

I think its a sad day when the NCAA makes an issue out of a perceived rather that real offense. The people who should have been offended were the players, alums, and fans who proudly played for and cheered the Redmen. 

The name separation only put it back to it's original form. The Carthage community was included in the action that was taken. As for the flames I think there is an obvious objection. Hey look at those Flamers!!

[Mr. Ypsi]

As a subtle (or perhaps not so subtle) protest, I always now type it as "RedMen".

[79jaybird]

Elmhurst's nickname was originally the Pirates---then Buccaneers-- then (and to the current) Bluejays.  Not sure why EC changed their nickname.

Keith notes that the Carthage vs. North Central is a game to watch.  I agree.   I think this is a game that is ripe for an upset (assuming NC doesn't bring their A game)  just as I think the Elmhurst vs. NPU game is ripe for an upset (assuming EC thinks it's going to be a breeze on their Homecoming game).  One thing I do know is Scott Pethtel is going to have his boys ready to go.  He is a solid coach, just hasn't had the horses in front of him- or more closely put.   I fear (and don't think it will happen) that Elmhurst might go into this game on the "high" from last week's big win in WI, and not be executing their game on Sat.

[Dennis_Prikkel]

Carthage was the "Redmen" with a feather logo and a Native American theme.  The NCAA ruled that this name was offensive to Native Americans and so they changed their name to the Red Men to associate with the uniform colors from the 1920's.  The also eliminated the feathers and added the torch.  Not sure how the torch relates, but there it is.

Carthage Illinois high school was indeed the Blue Boys until they consolidated with La Harpe and Dallas City 2 years ago and the school is now called Illini West with a nickname of the Chargers.

Redford Redmen was the creaton of former Carthage SID Mitch Rukavina - who, believe me, was a living legend on the Kenosha campus during the sixties and early seventies.  Mitch bled red.  Mitch left Carthage about 30 years ago and soon died of a heart attack.

He was a promoter's promoter - and Ancient Titan and I are probably the only ones who remember his legendary inflamatory prose - and you think this board gets testy....

dgp


Sorry, but that is just not completely accurate information. I've had this conversation with President Campbell, particularly prior to the Board of Trustees voting to change the logo in 2006 to appease the NCAA wishes. The Red Men had no association with Native American Indians in the past nor today. In the 1960's someone at the school was commissioned to develop a logo. What else could be thought of in regards to Red Men?? which morphed into Redmen and now back to the original Red Men nickname. I am not, but should be, clear as to the reasoning behind the feathers which I'm fairly sure had Native Americans in mind at the time of it's implementation, but not intended as representation.

The Torch has always been a symbol at the school before and during my affiliation with Carthage. The Flame is the official symbol of Carthage. Flame imagery characterizes both the academic and athletic identity at Carthage. The crest of the College features a torch and flame. The highest award conferred by the College is the "Carthage Flame". Son of Tailgater was awarded the "Flame Leadership" award in 2004. The athletic logotypes for the Red Men and Lady Reds feature a stylized flame symbolizing heat, fire and commitment. The athletic mascot is "Torchy".... a strange torch like creature with flames coming out of it's head.

[Gregory Sager]

As a freshman, we were Buttons, as Sophs we were Snappers and as Varsity we were Zippers.  Garment workers didn't unite to overthrow our logos.  Seamstresses weren't crying in a huddled mass, thread wrapped around their necks.  No, all of this is was in great fun.  Sports are for fun and entertainment.  They're not life and death.  One of my favorite cheers ever was, "The ______'s can clown around, but they can't get our Zippers down!"  What a classic.  I'm smiling now remembering the humor in all of it.

I'm surprised that your high school hasn't modernized its nickname to "the Velcro".

Carthage is the only college or university in the U.S. whose teams are called the Red Men, but there's another school that uses Carthage's old Redmen nickname: Rio Grande, an NAIA school in Ohio. The other CCIW school that has a totally unique nickname is Millikin, although Bluefield State, a D2 school in West Virginia, is known as the Big Blues. Wellesley, the famous women's college in Massachusetts whose teams compete in D3, is known simply as the Blue.

Link to a pic of the new Torchy!

http://www.printroom.com/ViewGalleryPhoto.asp?shopperid=T9KVPP9K5BSN8KXH72VQ9V1BDNPQ3GUC&userid=tripposcar&gallery_id=1309050&image_id=40

Is he racing a sausage in that picture? Did they let Torchy participate in a sausage race at Miller Park?

Elmhurst's nickname was originally the Pirates---then Buccaneers-- then (and to the current) Bluejays.  Not sure why EC changed their nickname.

No school in the CCIW has a funnier former nickname than the one with which Illinois Wesleyan was burdened back during the Depression. I'll let the Titans fans share it with you rather than divulging it myself.

I think this is a game that is ripe for an upset (assuming NC doesn't bring their A game)  just as I think the Elmhurst vs. NPU game is ripe for an upset (assuming EC thinks it's going to be a breeze on their Homecoming game).  One thing I do know is Scott Pethtel is going to have his boys ready to go.  He is a solid coach, just hasn't had the horses in front of him- or more closely put.   I fear (and don't think it will happen) that Elmhurst might go into this game on the "high" from last week's big win in WI, and not be executing their game on Sat.

The word on campus is that NPU is very banged up at the moment, a natural consequence of having to start the CCIW part of the season by playing the two best teams in the league. I've heard that as many as ten of the regulars might have to sit this one out, and since North Park really has no depth to begin with that's a pretty dire casualty count. While I certainly hope that the Vikings can give Elmhurst a game, I don't know if NPU is healthy enough to hang around for four quarters.

[Carthage Fan]

Link to a pic of the new Torchy!

http://www.printroom.com/ViewGalleryPhoto.asp?shopperid=T9KVPP9K5BSN8KXH72VQ9V1BDNPQ3GUC&userid=tripposcar&gallery_id=1309050&image_id=40

Is he racing a sausage in that picture? Did they let Torchy participate in a sausage race at Miller Park?

Carthage had the sausages from Miller Park/Brewers at our homecoming last week.  Torchy won the race with the aid of a skateboard! 

[79jaybird]

Greg- Elmhurst is pretty banged up too, though not as bad as you have pinpointed with NPU.  The last few games many starters have been out and/or not even 80% healthy, and many positions have been two-platooned.  I had a HS coach tell me that if by the halfway point of the season you are not bruised or less than 100% that means you have not given it all you can throughout the first half.    Don't know how much truth there is in that saying, however this is a contact sport as we all know and with collisions comes bruises and injuries.

[matblake]

Elmhurst's nickname was originally the Pirates---then Buccaneers-- then (and to the current) Bluejays.  Not sure why EC changed their nickname.

While we are on origins,  does anybody know what the original color/mascot of Elmhurst was?  They weren't always the Bluejays.   In fact we used this as one of our trivia questions during an EC fb broadcast.   The Elmhurst athletic teams were originally Goldenrod!  Yep,  Goldenrod in the 20's.

Jaybird, you forgot the Goldenrods, I'm disappointed in you.   

[79jaybird]

MatBlake-  I didn't forget     I just don't like to bring that nickname up.  It's not very "appealing" if you will.  Yes, Elmhurst at one time were the Goldenrods    thank goodness they are known today by something more competitive.
Never an official nickname, but the 1950's Bluejays were known as "Uncle Pete's Puny Ponies".  Uncle Pete referring to former coach Oliver "Uncle Pete" Langhorst.

[New Tradition]

Elmhurst's nickname was originally the Pirates---then Buccaneers-- then (and to the current) Bluejays.  Not sure why EC changed their nickname.

While we are on origins,  does anybody know what the original color/mascot of Elmhurst was?  They weren't always the Bluejays.   In fact we used this as one of our trivia questions during an EC fb broadcast.   The Elmhurst athletic teams were originally Goldenrod!  Yep,  Goldenrod in the 20's.

Jaybird, you forgot the Goldenrods, I'm disappointed in you.   

So were they the Goldenrods before or after they were the Pirates?

[79jaybird]

Goldenrod was the original nickname of the Elmhurst teams when they started incorporating athletics (circa 1920).  After they dropped Goldenrod they adopted Pirates/Buccanneers, and then eventually going to Bluejays.
Just out of curiosity, what could you possibly have as an emblem for Goldenrod?
Big Bird?  a yellow chicken?  eek!

[matblake]

No school in the CCIW has a funnier former nickname than the one with which Illinois Wesleyan was burdened back during the Depression. I'll let the Titans fans share it with you rather than divulging it myself.

I'm not a Titan fan, but I couldn't resist.  Illinois Wesleyan Boy Beauties!  However, Wheaton could have been the Cherubs when the school changed the mascot from Crusaders, so this is the last I will speak on the subject.  

[New Tradition]

No school in the CCIW has a funnier former nickname than the one with which Illinois Wesleyan was burdened back during the Depression. I'll let the Titans fans share it with you rather than divulging it myself.

I'm not a Titan fan, but I couldn't resist.  Illinois Wesleyan Boy Beauties!  However, Wheaton could have been the Cherubs when the school changed the mascot from Crusaders, so this is the last I will speak on the subject.  

Ha!  That's funny.  I was curious and hunted online for the answer to that one last night but was unsuccesful.  Where'd you find that?  Or was it just something you already knew?

[orsky]

This comes from the IWU sports site on their home page.

"The 1929-30 basketball season was the first time the nickname "Titans" was pinned on the Illinois Wesleyan athletic teams. At one time or another, such names as "Gaws," "Green Dragons," and "Boy Beauties" were used, but none of those endured. "

Makes be feel good to have been a Zipper.

[New Tradition]

This comes from the IWU sports site on their home page.

"The 1929-30 basketball season was the first time the nickname "Titans" was pinned on the Illinois Wesleyan athletic teams. At one time or another, such names as "Gaws," "Green Dragons," and "Boy Beauties" were used, but none of those endured. "

Makes be feel good to have been a Zipper.

Dragons would have been pretty cool.  What on Earth is a Gaw?