FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Pat Coleman]

While the CCIW finished 19-5 overall during the non-conference schedule, a 79% winning percentage; the cummulative record of the non-conference foes for the year brings into question just how impressive (or not so) the 19-5 record is for 2008.

Consider:
Coe: 3-6
Benedictine: 3-6
Hope: 1-7
Illinois College: 4-6
Carroll: 7-3
Greenville: 6-4
Olivet: 1-8
Alma: 4-4
Loras: 5-4
Ohio Northern: 4-5
Rose-Hulman: 7-3
Bethel: 4-5
Aurora: 8-1
Albion: 4-5
Concordia (Wis): 4-5
UW-Platteville: 4-5
Campbell: 1-8
Chicago: 3-5

Cumulatively that is a record of 73-90 or 44%.

True. But if that group of opponents hadn't gone 5-19 against the CCIW, they'd look a little better.

[Mugsy]

True. But if that group of opponents hadn't gone 5-19 against the CCIW, they'd look a little better.

Yes, I know.     But a Wheaton win against a Bethel similar to last years Semi-Final team carries more weight than this years 4-5, etc, etc...

I don't know, I was just surprised at how pedestrian the overall record of CCIW non-conference opponents is for 2008.

[redman04]

Pat why is ESPN cutting the time lot down?
15 minutes just doesn't seam like enough time to go through the bracket. 
That Just sucks!   
Should be a half hour show, Hell the IHSA playoffs had a 2 hour show!

[Pat Coleman]

Fifteen? I wish it was that long. 

[Blitz Creed]

Congrats to the Cardinals on a 3rd straight conference title and a 4th straight playoff birth. It is awesome to know that the seniors on the team now have completed in the playoffs every year they have played at NCC.

After reviewing the regional rankings and what they may look like for the seedings. North Central could have the toughest road to the National Championship: Franklin (maybe the most under-rated team in the playoffs), Wabash (could argue #2 avg around 46pts a game), Mt. Union (enough said), MHB/Wesley (Have there been better programs the past 5 years).

Although, its a predicted hard road, I know that the players are ready for the challenge and regardless of the road they may have to take I am sure the player/program are ready to finally break out of the 2nd round slum and show all of d3 they are the real deal.

[ncc58]

True. But if that group of opponents hadn't gone 5-19 against the CCIW, they'd look a little better.

Yes, I know.     But a Wheaton win against a Bethel similar to last years Semi-Final team carries more weight than this years 4-5, etc, etc...

I don't know, I was just surprised at how pedestrian the overall record of CCIW non-conference opponents is for 2008.

You can only play who's on your schedule. Wheaton scheduled Bethel and NCC scheduled ONU, thinking these were playoff teams. Wheaton and NCC also scheduled Hope and Olivet - thinking those teams were close to playoff level teams. Had those four teams lived up to expectations, we'd be boasting about the CCIW record, instead of trying to defend it.

[Mugsy]

True. But if that group of opponents hadn't gone 5-19 against the CCIW, they'd look a little better.

Yes, I know.     But a Wheaton win against a Bethel similar to last years Semi-Final team carries more weight than this years 4-5, etc, etc...

I don't know, I was just surprised at how pedestrian the overall record of CCIW non-conference opponents is for 2008.

You can only play who's on your schedule. Wheaton scheduled Bethel and NCC scheduled ONU, thinking these were playoff teams. Wheaton and NCC also scheduled Hope and Olivet - thinking those teams were close to playoff level teams. Had those four teams lived up to expectations, we'd be boasting about the CCIW record, instead of trying to defend it.

I fully understand you can only play who is on your schedule.  Coming into the 2008 season, I thought Wheaton's non-conference schedule would be very difficult.  Bethel coming off a 2007 Semi-final season, Hope a multi-season playoff team, and CUW a 2007 playoff team.  In turns out to be 4-5, 1-8 and 4-5.  But I digress... that is not my point.

I was merely questioning just how much the 19-5 non-conference result weighs in on the relative strength of the conference.  On the surface it looks really remarkable, a nearly .800% winning percentage.  Digging deeper, it is against competition with a .44% winning percentage.

Like I said... there are many other factors that come into play to gauge conference strength - most noteable: how NCC fares in the 2008 playoffs.

[usee]

you can also look at the OWP and OOWP on front page to see where CCIW teams stack up on a relative basis. I think the conference strength analysis done at the end of the pre season by Keith and Pat is pretty conclusive. they look at all these factors and weigh them accordingly.

Top to bottom the CCIW is in the top 5 of all d3 conferences. We are consistently one of the few conferences that gets 2 playoff reps when we have two that are worthy. That also says something. I think you can go back several years and say all CCIW reps have lost to a team in the playoffs that played in or won the National Championship (NCC/Capital excluded). When CCIW teams have been given a chance to play mulitple games before facing Mt Union they have won those games.

I would love to see NCC in the west to see how we stack up or have MUC moved to east again to see how we do in a Mt Union free bracket. Last year NCC ran into Whitewater. If NCC can finish their business this weekend we will get a chance to see where we are.

[Matilda]

Here's my two cents about Lester (sp?)

Taking a team that has been tough but just not getting a few big game wins is a good first step.  However, since this is Lester's first season at the helm of Elmhurst....these are all not his guys.  In fact, my calander skills might be off a little, but pretty sure Lester didn't even come into the Elmhurst picture until late in recruiting this year.  If that is the case, he might not be playing with close to any of his guys. 

Don't get me wrong, he did a hell of a job at NCC last year with that defense.  And he deserves credit for coming over and making his kids play the way that he is.  But coming in and taking an already tough team to get that first big victory (the first step of getting over the hump) is really only half of the battle.  The second half of the battle is recruiting.  I mean would you just pay a repair man just for taking apart your troubled appliance? No of course you wouldn't.

Thorne, on the other hand has won three (should have been four) straight with his own guys.  I just don't see how that doesn't speak volumes.

[FormerCard]

Here's my two cents about Lester (sp?)

Taking a team that has been tough but just not getting a few big game wins is a good first step.  However, since this is Lester's first season at the helm of Elmhurst....these are all not his guys.  In fact, my calander skills might be off a little, but pretty sure Lester didn't even come into the Elmhurst picture until late in recruiting this year.  If that is the case, he might not be playing with close to any of his guys. 

Don't get me wrong, he did a hell of a job at NCC last year with that defense.  And he deserves credit for coming over and making his kids play the way that he is.  But coming in and taking an already tough team to get that first big victory (the first step of getting over the hump) is really only half of the battle.  The second half of the battle is recruiting.  I mean would you just pay a repair man just for taking apart your troubled appliance? No of course you wouldn't.

Thorne, on the other hand has won three (should have been four) straight with his own guys.  I just don't see how that doesn't speak volumes.

You make a very good point about recruiting.
I remember lobbying for NCC a few years ago and a few people said that until we beat a good team (Augie/Wheaton) on the road, we cannot be considered a "Top 4" team.   

[Mugsy]

Here's my two cents about Lester (sp?)

Taking a team that has been tough but just not getting a few big game wins is a good first step.  However, since this is Lester's first season at the helm of Elmhurst....these are all not his guys.  In fact, my calander skills might be off a little, but pretty sure Lester didn't even come into the Elmhurst picture until late in recruiting this year.  If that is the case, he might not be playing with close to any of his guys. 

Don't get me wrong, he did a hell of a job at NCC last year with that defense.  And he deserves credit for coming over and making his kids play the way that he is.  But coming in and taking an already tough team to get that first big victory (the first step of getting over the hump) is really only half of the battle.  The second half of the battle is recruiting.  I mean would you just pay a repair man just for taking apart your troubled appliance? No of course you wouldn't.

Thorne, on the other hand has won three (should have been four) straight with his own guys.  I just don't see how that doesn't speak volumes.

You make a very good point about recruiting.
I remember lobbying for NCC a few years ago and a few people said that until we beat a good team (Augie/Wheaton) on the road, we cannot be considered a "Top 4" team.   

North Central will not be a top 4 team until they win 5... no 6 CCIW Championships in a row.   

Unfortunately they are loaded enough to make 4 a serious possibility. 

[washdupcard]

I am also not certain Mt Union wouldn't be moved East or NCC West no matter what the result this weekend. There doesn't seem to be any evidence that the committee won't be willing to move a #1 or #2 from the North into another region if they think that gets them the 4 strongest #1 seeds.

You confused me with the double negative...but I'm on the same page now.  Is there no end to your trickery?

[Mugsy]

I am also not certain Mt Union wouldn't be moved East or NCC West no matter what the result this weekend. There doesn't seem to be any evidence that the committee won't be willing to move a #1 or #2 from the North into another region if they think that gets them the 4 strongest #1 seeds.

You confused me with the double negative...but I'm on the same page now.  Is there no end to your trickery?

His profile name should be: Don'tUSee

[RadioNotes]

If you go to the front page and click on Strength of Schedule...
the first column I understand--the Opponents win %...BUT why
is there another comparison, and of what significance is the second
listing....the O-O Win %?     ty

[usee]

"Don'tUsee"--very nice +k

RadioNotes-I think it is a measure of how strong your opponents schedule is. it is your opponents-opponents winning percentage. So if you beat ONU it looks at ONU's opponents winning percentage as another factor in determing strength of schedule. It's all very confusing.

I suggest NCC fans read the General football section. There are some good discussions on playoff seedings, pool C, top 25 etc that looks at all this stuff.