FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[propower64]

USee,
No problem in Indiana there are 3 different schools named Franklin.  Franklin County, Franklin Central, and Franklin Community.  All in different parts of the state. 

[usee]

Two more things for your analysis:

-Franklin beat the OAC #2 and the CCIW #1 on the road (2 of the top 3 "conferences"). Now you have to figure out if Otterbein is really as strong an OAC #2 as those that preceded them AND if NCC was the same NCC that beat wheaton.

-Franklin turned it over an uncharacteristic 4x vs Trine and still barely lost. Trine is as good up front on defense as any team I have seen this year. Their offense is suspect but talented and their secondary was weak in my view. I think Franklin is better than Trine and if they play 10x Franklin wins 7-8. I also think the same thing with NCC/Franklin. (NCC wins 7-8x).

So if you think the Franklin/Trine game was an aberration, you have to think the same thing about NCC/Franklin in my opinion.

Frankly, I don't buy it. These two teams are pretty even all things considered. I think the Thunder have more depth and are better as an overall team but I would be hard pressed to bet against Chad Rupp right now.

[Mugsy]

I'm guessing footballfan413 is looking to understand what type of field Wheaton plays on at home to gauge how moving from Franklin's grass to the high school's turf might affect the game?  Regardless of the reason behind the question... Wheaton plays on "state-of-the-art artificial grass from FieldTurf".

Thanks, Mugsy.  You nailed it for me.  So what is your opinion about how that will affect the game.  Both teams seem to rely heavily on the passing game and looks like Wheaton will have a small advantage regarding being use to playing on field turf. 

Contrary to the opinion of a number of posters, if the game were to be played on Franklin's torn up grass field, I thought it would be an advantage to Wheaton.  How significant, I'm not sure.  Wheaton's starting RB has nearly 1200 rushing this year and is a very tough runner.  That coupled with a string of very solid games by the Wheaton OLine would seem to favor a straight at you running attack on a sloppy field.  

Wheaton is a much more balanced attack than Franklin.  Wheaton averages 235 yards passing a game and 170 yards rushing.  Franklin does aveage 130 yards rushing, so it isn't all pass and no run.  The Franklin offense will keep you more than honest, but Rupp is where they do their damage.

The move to a field turf stadium negates any advantage/disadvantage in my mind.  It now comes down to which defense you think will be able to slow down the others offensive attack and other standard keys in playoff games (turnovers, field position, etc...)

[footballfan413]

My head is spinning...........................

All great stuff.  I agree that they match up pretty closely so looking for tie-breakers.  Rupp is probably one of those and if not for him, I think this would be a lot easier for me!   A lot of talk about the
O.  What is your analysis regarding how the D's match up as they will be the key.  

[dansand]

I'd bet there are at least 4-5 posters (and more on CCIW Chat) who saw Anderson play (he was one year behind me).  Since the game was so different back then, he barely appears in CCIW records, and I can't find any write-ups or game summaries from his era.  He led the league in passing his sophomore and junior years (but not his senior year, when he just had to settle for POY - which apparently was not conferred in his earlier years).  Since I didn't realize at the time that I was watching "FUTURE NFL MVP KEN ANDERSON" , I really am not sure whether he was all that unusually excellent as a college player (IWU beat Augie both his freshman and senior years).  Anyone have a better memory, or has found better stats?

I never saw Anderson play at Augie, but here are his, by today's standards, modest career totals:

Year    Att.  Cmp.  Pct.  Yds.  (W-L)
1967    155    77  49.7  1143   (4-5)
1968    239   136  56.9  2117   (6-3)
1969    199    98  49.2  1432   (7-2)
1970    234   113  48.3  1439   (3-6)
-----------------------------
Career  827   424  51.3  6131  (20-16)

Sorry, I don't have interception and TD totals. Obviously Paul Brown must've known a little about football to take Anderson in the third round. He was the sixth QB taken in the 1971 draft, behind Jim Plunkett, Archie Manning, Dan Pastorini, Lynn Dickey and Leo Hart (?).

DanSand,

Thanks for posting these. Where did you find them? I looked and couldn't come up with anything. Paul Brown is Einstein for picking Anderson w these stats!

They're in Augie's game programs. Dave Wrath puts out a program that's basically a media guide.

Ya, even though it was a different game 40 years ago, his numbers weren't exactly overwhelming. He actually had better stats in basketball. He finished his career fifth on the school's career scoring list (he's currently 21st) and didn't play his senior year.

Year      GP   FG-FGA   Pct   FT-FTA   Pct  Reb  Avg   Pts/Avg
1967-68   24  131-253  .518   83-102  .814  141  5.9   345/14.4
1968-69   25  147-269  .546   97-128  .758  163  6.5   391/15.6
1969-70   23  133-268  .496   42-64   .656  113  4.9   308/13.4
TOTAL     72  411-790  .520  222-294  .755  417  5.8  1044/14.5

[footballfan413]

So, how good are the Thunder DB's?

[Mugsy]

My head is spinning...........................

All great stuff.  I agree that they match up pretty closely so looking for tie-breakers.  Rupp is probably one of those and if not for him, I think this would be a lot easier for me!   A lot of talk about the
O.  What is your analysis regarding how the D's match up as they will be the key.  

Well I think that is exactly where most Wheaton & Franklin posters are right now.  Obviously we are all biased towards our team and are pulling for them on Saturday, but this is a very tough matchup to figure out.  I wouldn't be surprised regardless of which team wins on Saturday.

[usee]

Well, Franklin's offense has scored an eye popping 100 pts in 2 playoff games ON THE ROAD! but their defense has given up 73! I wouldn't call that a dominant performance. Wheaton's defense shut out Trine and had a 52-14 lead on Wabash (their qb was 10-27 when the 1st team checked out) and is led by Pete Ittersagen.

If you look at Franklin/Trine box score you will see Trine controlled the clock for 40min to 20 for Franklin. NCC had the same kind of advantage in the first half against Franklin (20 out of 30 min). NCC's qb and rb went down in the second half and Rupp got to work against a secondary that didn't change their coverage the whole game.

Wheaton's key will be to control the TOP, limiting Rupps plays and to play multiple defensive schemes (which they do--4,5,6 dbs--zone, man under, pressure, etc). If they mix it up on defense and don't let Rupp get a handle on it, they may get some stops. Either way, I think holding Franklin to 35pts is a huge win which means you have to think Wheaton has to score at least 40 to win.

[usee]

I'd bet there are at least 4-5 posters (and more on CCIW Chat) who saw Anderson play (he was one year behind me).  Since the game was so different back then, he barely appears in CCIW records, and I can't find any write-ups or game summaries from his era.  He led the league in passing his sophomore and junior years (but not his senior year, when he just had to settle for POY - which apparently was not conferred in his earlier years).  Since I didn't realize at the time that I was watching "FUTURE NFL MVP KEN ANDERSON" , I really am not sure whether he was all that unusually excellent as a college player (IWU beat Augie both his freshman and senior years).  Anyone have a better memory, or has found better stats?

I never saw Anderson play at Augie, but here are his, by today's standards, modest career totals:

Year    Att.  Cmp.  Pct.  Yds.  (W-L)
1967    155    77  49.7  1143   (4-5)
1968    239   136  56.9  2117   (6-3)
1969    199    98  49.2  1432   (7-2)
1970    234   113  48.3  1439   (3-6)
-----------------------------
Career  827   424  51.3  6131  (20-16)

Sorry, I don't have interception and TD totals. Obviously Paul Brown must've known a little about football to take Anderson in the third round. He was the sixth QB taken in the 1971 draft, behind Jim Plunkett, Archie Manning, Dan Pastorini, Lynn Dickey and Leo Hart (?).

DanSand,

Thanks for posting these. Where did you find them? I looked and couldn't come up with anything. Paul Brown is Einstein for picking Anderson w these stats!

They're in Augie's game programs. Dave Wrath puts out a program that's basically a media guide.

Ya, even though it was a different game 40 years ago, his numbers weren't exactly overwhelming. He actually had better stats in basketball. He finished his career fifth on the school's career scoring list (he's currently 21st) and didn't play his senior year.

Year      GP   FG-FGA   Pct   FT-FTA   Pct  Reb  Avg   Pts/Avg
1967-68   24  131-253  .518   83-102  .814  141  5.9   345/14.4
1968-69   25  147-269  .546   97-128  .758  163  6.5   391/15.6
1969-70   23  133-268  .496   42-64   .656  113  4.9   308/13.4
TOTAL     72  411-790  .520  222-294  .755  417  5.8  1044/14.5

It would be great if they had that on their website. Thanks again.

[footballfan413]

Looked up some key defensive stats for both teams and how they rank within their conference:
   Franklin:
           Last in Pass Defense.  (Maybe a telling stat.)
           1st in Rush Defense  (call this one even, too.)
           6th  in Turnover Margin  (Even)
           1st in sacks

Wheaton:
        4th in Passing Defense
        2nd in Rush Defense
        6th in Turnover Margin
        4th in sacks

Now think of strength of conference for a perspective on these.
         

[usee]

on the OAC board you can get +7.5 to pick Wheaton. If only there was a vegas board where you could take Wheaton +7.5 and turn around and pick Franklin even up!! 

[Mugsy]

So, how good are the Thunder DB's?

CB Pete Ittersagen is a 4 year starter, 4 year 1st Team All-CCIW, 1st Team All American in 2007.  He is right up there with any othe CB in the country in ability.  He is one of the best tackling CB's I seen - a very sure tackler in the open field.  His ability, coupled with Wheaton's Andy Studebaker getting drafted last year, has NFL scouts giving him a look.  If you look at his stats, you won't be overly impressed as only a few teams have really challenged him much this year.  He does have 2 INT's and 12 breakups for the season, along with 51 tackles and a sack.  5'10", 190lbs. Overall I don't think he has played nearly as well this year as in 2007, but still an outstanding CB.

So... since Ittersagen is so solid, that means the other CB gets lots of action.  Tyler Langs has started as a freshman as well, now a junior.  He has 5 INT's and 6 pass breakups, along with 62 tackles and 2 sacks.  A bit smaller at 5'9", 182lbs in the program, so subtract an inch & 7-8lbs.    Tyler is a solid CB, though he had a game or two where he struggled a bit.

S Shane Woodward was a 2nd Team All-CCIW safety.  He has 5 INTs and 11 pass breakups to go with 45 tackles and 1 sack. Shane has been a starter for a couple of years and has good size at 6'0" 210lbs.

Jordan Schirman has been getting much of the playing time at the other safety.  He is senior with good size and is physical - 6'3" 190lbs.  64 tackles, 5.5 TFL, 8 pass breakups.

Overall a very solid, experienced secondary.  Like any secondary, the front 7 must put some pressure on Rupp if they wish to have any success.  I'm hoping the Wheaton coaching staff uses a different strategy than what North Central employed.  It sounded like North Central went with little pressure in the way of blitzing and mixing it up.  It sounds like from the account of the NCC faithful, that Rupp had all day to pass and just picked the secondary apart.

[Mugsy]

Looked up some key defensive stats for both teams and how they rank within their conference:
   Franklin:
           Last in Pass Defense.  (Maybe a telling stat.)
           1st in Rush Defense  (call this one even, too.)
           6th  in Turnover Margin  (Even)
           1st in sacks

Wheaton:
        4th in Passing Defense
        2nd in Rush Defense
        6th in Turnover Margin
        4th in sacks

Now think of strength of conference for a perspective on these.

I mentioned this several times during the week of the Wabash playoff game.  The Wabash fans were pointing to how Wheaton was ranked 199th in the country in yards allowed passing. They were expecting their QB Hudson to have a field day.  I pointed out how Wheaton had played 5 teams whose pass offenses were ranked in the top 36 in the country, so yardage allowed is going to be inflated a bit based on that fact.  I pointed out the more accurate gauge of Wheaton's pass defense was the pass defense efficiency, which has Wheaton ranked #35 or so.

Wheaton completely shutdown the Wabash passing attack as USee pointed out.  Prior to mop up time where the Wheaton 2nd team was playing, Hudson was well below 50% pass completions, with 2 INT and under 140 yards passing.  It helped that Wheaton had 5 sacks.

I believe the past 2 weeks in the playoffs, Wheaton's defense has been playing better than at any point in the season.  They will need to continue this trend if they wish to beat Franklin.  Not an easy task.

[footballfan413]

Great stuff.  Thanks, Mugsy.  Still don't know who I'll pick but I am beginning to get a good feeling about the Thunder's chances.  I always say that a QB can't throw if he is on his a$$ but getting pressure on one who has a 3 step drop and a quick release poses a big risk when you blitz.  Best defense is to keep a guy like that off the field.

[Mugsy]

Best defense is to keep a guy like that off the field.

Which is exactly what USee alluded too... Wheaton needs to get Rocky Gingg on track and he needs 22-25 carries for at least 125 yards rushing.  Wheaton needs some long, clock eating drives, ending in 7 points.

Not too much to ask for, is it?