FB: Northwest Conference

[d-train]

Tux -

The numbers comparison is telling, but here's the real issue. If L&C had the same admissions standards/philosophy as Menlo, their football team would be much, much better. Since they choose to be ultra exclusive, they instead lead the conference in chess and medieval combat reinactments while rejecting plenty of athletes who get in to other NWC schools. I think the committee will bring some of this to light, but the kicker is if there's a decision by the administration to change direction or not.

[rbaikie]

Per their website, Menlo has 73 on their overall roster.

I know that during their bye week, they had enough players to hold thier "Aggie Bowl" - an intrasquad for the non-starters.

Another thing is that this year Menlo has gone to a "cut" policy - in previous years, they were no-cut. (n the past, you always had a number of non-recruited players who tended to be just bodies for practice).

This week is Senior Day at Menlo.

[Tuxguy]

rbaikie, thanks for the info.......

d....look for a Linfield Championship Hat in the endzone sat. The Cats soccer team plays the other cats at 1:30 on the same field. I wonder if I can hide and just stay for the Football game?
Nah, might need a cold one before football!

[rockcat]

If Lewis and Clark is going to base their football problems on admission selectivity their argument isn't going to get very far.  Willamette is more selective than L&C and despite a rough start his year the Bearkitties have been a playoff team as recent as last year. 

The bigger problem is that L&C has created an environment that is anti-athletics.  This is probably magnified with football because of the big dumb jock stereotype that people expect with football.  The fact is though there are a lot of schools with more competative admissions standards than Lewis and Clark who have very good football teams.

[cawcdad]

rbaikie, you going to be at the game Saturday?

[d-train]

I totally agree that the environment on campus is a big factor. It might be the largest of several key things that have crippled the Pio program. I'm not claiming the admissions is the only problem there.

The fact is though there are a lot of schools with more competative admissions standards than Lewis and Clark who have very good football teams.

I guess, but notice how I also used the word admissions 'philosophy' not just competitive standards. In general, UPS and Willamette have admissions standards that are on par with Lewis & Clark. However, I'd bet you anything that over the past several years Speckman and Willenbruck could get guys through admissions that Fanger and Coach V. couldn't. There are a ton of recruits that are right in that grey area - right on the cut - and that's where the environment of support for athletics or not makes a big difference. Plus, regardless of the published admissions standards - most NWC schools get more qualified students than they can let in. The question is where/how do you draw the line, and do you give any consideration (or credit) to what the student brings to campus besides a GPA (like plans to play a sport...or play an instrument for that matter).

[rbaikie]

CAWCDAD -

No, I'm not making any trips this year - Living in Socal, I mainly get to see the Oaks when they play SCIAC teams - I am thinking that next year, we may come up to see them play Willamette since Coach Speckman is a family friend and was one of my coaches in high school.

I would be a little scared to see Menlo play Linfield - I saw the Oaks play Whittier earlier this year and one of their weak spots is DB - 

I hate to pick against my old school but it would have to be some unique circumstances to make me bet against the Cats!

 

[rockcat]

DTrain,

I understand what you are saying completely.  I actually worked in college admissions for a couple of years after I graduated from Linfield (but not at Linfield).

A friend of mine who is an athlete transferred to L&C.  He told me stories about how segregated athletes are on campus.  He explained how much he wanted to hurry up and graduate to get out of there.  If that is the environment they are creating they are going to have a tough time recruiting enough athletes to be competative in football where you need at least 60 players.

Linfield fans, especially alums, have a difficult time understanding this because we came from a place where 60+% of students at least plan on playing a varsity sport.  Willamette and UPS are definitely a better measuring stick but I think both of those schools place a value on athletics, whether as part of the college experience or school spirit or whatever. 

All of that said, I am going to be very surprised if Lewis and Clark doesn't completely drop their program, if not next year than the following year.  At this point they are basically starting from scratch, or even worse than scratch (how do you explain to a recruit you dropped half of your season?) and I don't think they will be able to build enough momentum to fix things.  Hopefully Pacific can get things up and running quick so there can be another conference game on the schedule in the years to come.

[Pat Coleman]

Unfortunately, that sounds a lot like what Swarthmore was like for football players.

[pennstlbu]

Pennstlbu,

I've seen you've been on the board a few times since the game this past Saturday.  I was interested in reading your take on the Cat/Logger game.

I think that the 2005 game might have been worse than the 57-0 beatdown the 'Cats gave the Loggers back in 2002.  Just for the fact that the logger program was looking at this year they would take a big step forward. 

Hope you don't stay away too long, you have some good things to bring to the board.

I was worried about the game going into the weekend. I had a feeling that it could end up how it did based on how UPS played against Whitworth, but I was optimistic. 

This year's loss is more disappointing than 2002, based on how far the program has come since then and based on last year's result. But Linfield's team this year is unbelievably good. I'll be surprised if anyone plays them closer than 2-3 TDs through the West Region finals. I wasn't @ the game on Saturday, but it sounded similar to 2003's game, where Linfield went up 28-0 (or was it 35-0) in the first quarter on quick scores and turnovers by UPS. UPS just got in a deep hole really quick and didn't have a chance to get out of it. They just don't have the team to come back from such a large deficit. Like Coach Willenbrock said, UPS had to make few mistakes, control the clock, and force Linfield into mistakes. None of those things happened, and it was a long day for the Loggers.

One thing that has hurt UPS much more than last year, other than turnovers, is injuries. I don't think a single starter on the team last year missed a game due to injury. I heard that it was so bad this past weekend in the secondary that Drew Sparn, the starting FS, was forced to move to CB due to injuries.

I was thinking though, as UPS' conference season already has ended, the future is still bright. I believe that the Loggers will only lose 2-3 senior starters on offense and 2-3 on defense. Carlson will be a tough player to replace. A 4 year starter @ QB is tough to replace for anyone. But Coach Willenbrock's first full recruiting class will be seniors next year, and hopefully the Loggers can build some more momentum into next season for conference play.

[coco]

L&C didn't do well last season, but a few years ago they were a conference powerhouse in basketball, so they don't suck at all sports all the time.

I, too, hope UPS can continue to improve, as it benefits the whole conference to have strong teams. We don't want another L&C, and Carlson's graduation is going to hurt.

[pennstlbu]

Hearing about L&C's situation, it sounds similar to how UPS football was viewed on campus when I got to UPS in 2001. Logger football was considered as a joke and the players were laughed at at times and ragged on by the campus through 2003. There were several things that happened on campus that was insulting to the football team, but they had to take it and just go out and prove themselves out on the field to the community. 2004's winning season did a lot to improve their image, as has this season's wins. Along with football's new success, basketball has improved the visibility and acceptance of athletics on UPS' campus. I can tell you that UPS is closer to where Whitworth was in the late 90's in football than where L&C has been in the past 5 years.

[coco]

L&C would be a more well-rounded school if they were more accepting and encouraging of athletes.

[cawcdad]

For those who do not look at the front page or the Daily dose blogs, you need to go here and vote for Brett Elliott

[d-train]

Hearing about L&C's situation, it sounds similar to how UPS football was viewed on campus when I got to UPS in 2001. Logger football was considered as a joke and the players were laughed at at times and ragged on by the campus through 2003.

And things weren't much better on the field at Whitworth about 10 years ago, so there is hope for the Pios. But neither UPS or Whitworth were ever this low in terms of numbers or morale - so there is a long road ahead if the choice is to save football at L&C. I'm hopeful that they will choose to save the team. They've got quality facilities and plently of money. Plus, I hear the new President is a supporter...so we'll see.


Penns -
Will UPS win out? Playing @ WOU could be a stiff test, if those guys still give a rip by Nov. 12th.