FB: Northwest Conference

[BoBo]

btw, I think it's been determined that an NAIA ring doesn't count as a real ring!!?       

Weren't the WIAC schools in the NAIA at some time in the past? I believe so.....   And besides the competition in the NAIA back then was equal to or tougher than it is in DIII now.   

Back in the day when UWW finished second in a single division NAIA (1966), the NAIA was strong - as soon as NAIA started a second division, it began to get watered down. By the time you guys started winning a few championships, in the early to mid 80's, many of the "good" teams had already left NAIA for DIII, including the WIAC schools, leaving NAIA II starting the *downward spiral which they have never fully recovered from.

* as opposed to downfield spiral     

[wildcat11]

Yeah DIII was SO superior to the NAIA in the mid to late 90s.  It took the NWC a really long time to adjust to the superior depth and teams in Division III...so long in fact it wasn't till the 2nd year before our conference had a NC in football. 

[snoop dawg]

wc11.....thats what we call a ....budda bing, budda BOOM!!!!!

[bluenote]

I've never understood the WIAC........enrollments of 7-15 thousand students, state run schools with tuition at about $2500 a year.... playing little private colleges with enrollments of about 1-3 thousand and students paying 20-30 thousand. Heck.....you guys actually suck for all the students and low costs you have. 

[BoBo]

Yeah DIII was SO superior to the NAIA in the mid to late 90s.  It took the NWC a really long time to adjust to the superior depth and teams in Division III...so long in fact it wasn't till the 2nd year before our conference had a NC in football. 

wc11 - I don't want to twist your words, so correct me if I do. But, does your comment suggest that during the mid to late 90's, NAIA football was stronger than DIII? Who do you feel is stronger at present?  Back in the day, what were the leading factors prompting the NWC to bail the NAIA ship at a time when possibly, in your view, (again correct me if I'm wrong) the NAIA was stronger in football? Agreed, the NWC may have transitioned well to DIII, as you so sarcastically, yet eloquently pointed out, but other than 4 or 5 years around the time of that early success, the NWC has had only moderate success in football on a West Region or National level.  When do you feel the NWC will re-gain that late 90's-early 00's success? Personally, I think it's about time for a NWC team to make it past the 2nd round of the playoffs - could this be the year, & by whom? 

[bluenote]

BoBo....how long did you say the WIAC has been in DIII? 20 years now?..... NWC has been in DIII 10 years and we already have 2 Titles. I think the numbers favor us up to this point. Give us 20 years and we'll see how things stack up then. 

[BoBo]

I've never understood the WIAC........enrollments of 7-15 thousand students, state run schools with tuition at about $2500 a year.... playing little private colleges with enrollments of about 1-3 thousand and students paying 20-30 thousand. Heck.....you guys actually suck for all the students and low costs you have. 

Come on blue, you know better than quote numbers that are so far out of the ballpark than that!!     I paid more tuition per semester to a WIAC school 30 years ago than you are trying to imply for an entire year today.   

BTW, To correct the record, Eau Claire and Oshkosh have yearly been slightly over 10,000 undergraduates; UWW is over 10,000 when including graduate students.  I'm not sure the total count for this year, but it's traditionally around those numbers.

[BoBo]

BoBo....how long did you say the WIAC has been in DIII? 20 years now?..... NWC has been in DIII 10 years and we already have 2 Titles. I think the numbers favor us up to this point. Give us 20 years and we'll see how things stack up then. 

I think the first year the WIAC was in the DIII playoffs was '83.  La Crosse beat Occidental, then lost to Augustana by 6 in the Semi's.  It wasn't until '86 that they made the DIII playoffs again.  Around the same time La Crosse won a couple NAIA NC.  I'm not sure the exact year all the WIAC schools fully and completely competed in DIII.  It's been 20-25 years, I think.

EDIT:  As I looked back at La Crosse, they were still competing yearly in NAIA as late as 1990.  It appears that 1991 was the year all the WIAC fully joined DIII.  La Crosse was NC in '92 & '95.  Along with UWW, the WIAC has 3 rings.  The NWC has a few more years to catch up and try to get a third, too.     However, if the status quo remains, the WIAC (UWW) might put things out of reach for the NWC in the next few years.   

[wildcat11]

[Very Long Post] Well, I do believe that Division III became a much better Division when the NWC and ASC came on board during the late 90’s.  Who’s stronger now?  I would say that DIII is deeper but we do have almost triple the number of teams in DIII than the NAIA.  I’m of the belief that if you took the top ten of each division and put them in a mixed playoff bracket that sometimes the NAIA would come out on top and sometimes DIII would.  Hard to tell when both divisions have their overlords (Mount and Carroll).

The teams that currently are in the NWC were once members of the power NAIA Division II Columbia Football Association.  There were two conferences that made up the Association (Mt. Hood League & Mt. Rainier League) and they were a mix of Private and Publics.  The Mt. Hood League was comprised of Central Washington, Western Washington, UPS, Whitworth, PLU, and Simon Fraser.  The Mt Hood League was Linfield, Willamette, Western Oregon, Southern Oregon, Lewis and Clark, and Eastern Oregon (Pacific and Oregon Tech each were members of the CFA before they dropped football).

In the early 90’s many of the privates became “concerned” about the advantages that they felt the publics had on them in terms of admissions, access to public funds, cost of tuition, etc, and some of the members started the push to break away from the NAIA and the Publics and go DIII.  There were only two privates to put up resistance in moving to DIII (I’ll let you guess who that was).  Eventually, the holdouts caved and made the reasonable decision and got on board with the privates and reformed the NWC, the publics fractioned, and either went DII or stayed as NAIA independents.

Now moving on....the NWC started strong for the first 7 years in DIII and sent an NWC member to the west region finals for 5 consecutive seasons (2001-2005).  Personally, I thought the NWC was busting with young talent in 2008 and was represented well by Willamette.   I’m of the beliefe the conference will be back on an up-swing for the next few seasons.  Heck, I can remember before UWW went on their great run that the WIAC’s playoff performance was a punch line.  Your fellow schools owe you quite a lot. 

One more thing…I love being in DIII and feel it is the right place for the NWC members.  While my roots are in the NAIA I’m 100% a DIII convert. [/Very Long Post]

[BoBo]

One more thing...I love being in DIII and feel it is the right place for the NWC members.  While my roots are in the NAIA I'm 100% a DIII convert.

Very interesting historical review...thanks.  One last thing, if I may boldly ask, do you feel DIII is the right place for the WIAC's?

[wildcat11]

Very interesting historical review...thanks.  One last thing, if I may boldly ask, do you feel DIII is the right place for the WIAC's?

Well, I do need to go to bed but my answer is simple...yes.  If I start saying the WIAC shouldn't be in DIII then how long will it be before Lewis & Clark's of the world start saying that the Linfield types of privates place too much emphasis on athletics and shouldn't be in the division?  Oh yeah, that's already happen with the now killed Division IV movement.

Granted, UWW has had a hell of a run the past few years and it looks like that they will continue to have a major say in the region.  My advice to the others in the West Region...get better.

[bluenote]

One more thing...I love being in DIII and feel it is the right place for the NWC members.  While my roots are in the NAIA I'm 100% a DIII convert.

Very interesting historical review...thanks.  One last thing, if I may boldly ask, do you feel DIII is the right place for the WIAC's?

I can't say what division they should be in....but off the cuff I'd say DII. But if they were to move up they would have to get better. I see a team like Western Oregon who is an average to good DII team thrashing most of the WIAC teams on a weekly basis.

[OxyBob]

I've never understood the WIAC........enrollments of 7-15 thousand students, state run schools with tuition at about $2500 a year.... playing little private colleges with enrollments of about 1-3 thousand and students paying 20-30 thousand. Heck.....you guys actually suck for all the students and low costs you have.

WIAC Undergraduate Enrollment

Oshkosh 11,355
Eau Claire 10,346
Whitewater 9,231
Stevens Point 8,710
La Crosse 8,634
Stout 7,766
River Falls 6,050
Platteville 5,775

NWC Undergraduate Enrollment

Pacific Lutheran 3,349
Puget Sound 2,569
Whitworth 2,253
Lewis & Clark 1,964
Willamette 1,932
Linfield 1,720
Menlo 680

The WIAC schools have larger enrollments, low in-state tuition, and, most importantly, low admissions standards on par with an Army recruiting station. "Are you breathing? OK, you're admitted to Whitewater. Sign here. Yes, you may sign your name with a big X."

OxyBob

[wildcat11]

The WIAC schools have larger enrollments, low in-state tuition, and, most importantly, low admissions standards on par with Western Oregon*. "Are you breathing? OK, you're admitted to Whitewater. Sign here. Yes, you may sign your name with a big X."

OxyBob

*fixed. 

BTW, that is just a playful jab at WOU but with info like this WOU just makes it that much easier

[D O.C.]

If WC11 is staying up so late may I assume he is working on that OxyBob by popular vote interview? It would be there that the very dangerous WIAC attack could take a new turn.
I HAVE noticed the "cannot make it past the second round" WIAC hook has been hung. That is good for all of DIII.  I have also noticed the ASC and NWC do not fear the conference at all (and visa versa).