FB: Northwest Conference

[beancounter]

Wildcatinwi's post brought back a memory of 2001, when a loss to Southern Oregon kept Linfield out of the playoffs.     The way Willamette supporters look at it, a game like that "shouldn't count".   If that Linfield team at 7-2 sat at home, what case can be made for a 5-4 Willamette team this year??

[Lance Harbor]

Guys, a little late jumping in on this, but I just wanted to throw in my two cents worth about Willamette getting a playoff bid.

The key isn't whether or not they "deserve it," it's more whether or not they deserve higher placement compared to the other teams in the Pool B hunt.

I just ran through some numbers, and I see Huntingdon (AL) and Wesley (DE) as two somewhat-obvious choices for Pool B slots.  Who gets spot #3?

Between these teams (who will all finish with at least three losses):
--Carnegie Mellon
--Washington U.
--Salisbury
--Willamette
Who is the best?

I say Willamette is head and shoulders above those teams.
Yes, it seems a little contrived to have a four-loss team in the playoffs, but they play in a very tough conference  and region.  For years, the OAC runner-up got a free pass because of the unwritten "Our only loss was to Mount Union" rule.  I think there should be a "our only (regional) loss was to Linfield rule."

Put the Bearcats in the playoffs.  They may not deserve it, but if you go by the books, they look like they should be in there....just my 2 pennies worth.

[bluenote]

Well....my scenerio is about to pan out. I said if Whitworth doesn't beat Willamette, only one NWC team will go. And that's Linfield. That way we all won't get bored in the playoffs by playing a NWC team again. I think maybe Foss may be right and we may play Central or would it be Oxy? Cool! DC1...I stick by my score 35-20 Wildcats (burp) I think the game will be fairly close the 1st half but then Willamette may score some in garbage time to bring it closer....you just worry about which pair of cowboy boots your going to wear to the Elks Club when you give us the scouting report.   

[swede]

Beancounter
Your right. that game the cats lost to SOC in 2001 should not have counted leaving linfield at 7-1 with the only loss to PLU. That should have sent the lutes and cats to the playoffs. Instead they took whitworth at 7-2 with a loss both to PLU and Linfield. Regardless of what they say it did count

Bluenote
Providing the sandbags hold and lights are replaced the cats will stay close for the 1st quarter. The 2nd and 3rd will belong to Linfield and the lizcats will make it look close sometime in the 4th due to garbage time.
   

[bluenote]

swede...I talked to TuxGuy and he said you will be required to wear a tux and fodera to the game since he has appointed you "Usher of section B". You will be required to escort the people to their seats or the rest room and give them some candy and goodies to make them feel all warm and fuzzy, like the cheerleaders do. I sit in section C but I would like you to get me a hotdog with 2 minutes left in the 1st quarter if you don't mind?     I will gladly pay you on Monday.

[pennstlbu]

Beancounter
Your right. that game the cats lost to SOC in 2001 should not have counted leaving linfield at 7-1 with the only loss to PLU. That should have sent the lutes and cats to the playoffs. Instead they took whitworth at 7-2 with a loss both to PLU and Linfield. Regardless of what they say it did count

Didn't Whitworth only lose 1 game in the regular season in '01, to Linfield? I thought they beat PLU @ Sparks in the regular season and PLU beat them in a rematch at the Pine Bowl?

At any rate, I'm glad I wasn't a committee member picking the playoffs that year. Who who'd you take between PLU, Whitworth, and Linfield for only two spots? That's a tough call.

[pennstlbu]

Linfield would have a good shot at beating C. Washington this season, and probably any season. From 2001-04, Carroll College beat CWU three times, only losing to them in '02. In fact, I believe they beat them by about 15-20 in '03 @CWU after Sports Illustrated picked CWU as the number #1 team in D2.

[bluenote]

...good info. I think Linfield should look at all GNAC Schools for games and also Carrol College and some of the other teams in that Montana based league...why not? and also why not play Eastern Oregon again too?

[Foss]

Lance, you bring up some good points about comparing Willamette to other candidates across the country. I bet you if those teams (and maybe some of the Pool C candidates, as well) had played Willamette's schedule, they would be 5-4, too, or maybe worse. And yet these teams are in the running for playoff bids, aren't they? I still think the Bearcats blew their chance earlier this year w/ multiple bad losses and that it will be unlikely the Bearcats get in if they don't beat Linfield, but you bring up an interesting comparison to some of these weak East teams who probably have a leg up on Willamette only because they've been able to play other weak East teams instead of non-D3 opponents.

[beancounter]

Bluenote......no way Linfield should play any of those schools....not unless you are interested in losing the streak.    Linfield is division three, they should play a d3 schedule.   I don't even want SOU on the schedule, let alone WOU.    Games like that are going to hose the Wildcats out of a playoff berth some year....like 2001.

Pennst....you are correct.   Whitworth beat PLU in 2001.   The NWC had a "rock-scissors-paper" tie at the top in 2001.

[pennstlbu]

Frontier (Montana) Conference schools might be looking at NWC schools for non-conference games in the coming seasons, with the addition of Eastern Oregon to the conference next year. This means that they will only be playing each team in the conference once per season, instead of twice, which they have been of ryears due to the limited number of teams (5 this year, 4 several years ago before the start-up of the MSU-Northern program). So, instead of 2 non-conference games per season, they'll be having 5.

But the one thing that limits the NWC to scheduling Frontier schools is $. With the exception of Whitworth, the travel is a two day bus trip to the closest schools (Carroll, Montana Tech). And I don't think a plane trip is practical, due to the small airports that teams would have to travel to (Carroll, Montana Tech), having to bus from Butte to Dillon and Great Falls to Havre (Western Montana, MSU-Northern). The only practical team would be Rocky Mountain (Billings), but even that would be an expensive trip.

So, I can only see possibly Whitworth scheduling any Frontier schools anytime in the future, which they have done in the past few years.

[d-train]

Lance,

I think you're missing a few other Pool B teams. The four Pool B bids will likely go to Linfield, Thiel, Washington & Jefferson, and Wesley. If Willamette misses the cut there, they would have to compete for one of seven Pool C bid against the likes of Concordia, Central, UMHB, North Central, the winner of St. John Fisher/Alfred, one or two of Union/Hobart/RPI, Cal Lutheran, DePauw (if they win), Rowan (if they lose), etc. I just don't see it happening for the Bearcats. Foss is right...Willamette's playoffs start this Saturday.



Swede,

You Linfield guys will never let 2001 die, will you? At least get the story right. There was a "rock-paper-scissors" tie. For Whitworth, the one-score loss at Linfield was their only blemish. PLU and Linfield each had an additional NAIA loss. The Wildcats were blanked by the Raiders of Southern Oregon (29-0) and beaten by the Lutes. The Lutes lost by four points to Azusa Pacific and by one point to Whitworth. The committee said that looking at a three-way tie, they felt they had to give preference to the one team without a second overall loss...which is a valid secondary criteria. Given that decision, the Lutes were an obvious choice for the second bid since they'd beaten the 'Cats by two scores and had a hugely different result versus SOU (+39). If there were three bids, all three would have made it. But you should be glad that the 'slight' has motivated the 'Cats so much. You've left little doubt since. Let it go already.



pennstlbu,

My understanding is that the Frontier will stick with the double-round robin for now, resulting in 10 league games and only one non-league. That would mean even less opportunity for NWC scheduling. But I have also heard that they are exploring a future preseason scheduling arrangement with the DAC in which they'd ditch the double-round robin. Do you have anything concrete on that decision?

[beancounter]

d-train...speaking for myself, I only brought up 2001 as an illustration regarding these non region losses and how some games shouldn't count.    Linfield got beat out because of a non region loss....and yet there is an argument here that a 5-4 Willamette team is worthy of playoffs because a few of those losses shouldn't count.

As far as hanging onto that 2001 deal, observing differences in human behavior regarding how people deal with injustices or perceived injustices is interesting.   You can hang onto it all or you can let it go.   Which way would Coach Frosty recommend??  <g>

[pennstlbu]

pennstlbu,

My understanding is that the Frontier will stick with the double-round robin for now, resulting in 10 league games and only one non-league. That would mean even less opportunity for NWC scheduling. But I have also heard that they are exploring a future preseason scheduling arrangement with the DAC in which they'd ditch the double-round robin. Do you have anything concrete on that decision?

From what I've heard, some DAC and Frontier ADs met in Billings a few weeks ago about a possible DAC 10, Frontier merger of the two conferences. Some sort of east-west super conference that would be forming in the next few years. Not sure if it actually took place or what came out of the meeting , if it took place. Plus there's been talk of the DAC moving up to D2. A lot of transition has been taking place in NAIA as of late, and I wouldn't doubt that it continues.

[bluenote]

Beancounter....I have to dissagree with you on that one! We need games... games with a CAPITAL "G". Get It? I'm tired of playing only 3 games at home and 5 away...    I don't care if we play the Bad News Bears... whatever! bring 'em on, DUDE!