FB: Northwest Conference

[bluenote]

.... see, all I do is post and the board come alive.... LOL! 

[MonroviaCat]

.... see, all I do is post and the board come alive.... LOL! 

It helps when you leave your posts up--that's for sure

[D O.C.]

Quote from: D O.C. on Today at 04:12:57 pm

    I think everyone understands when d3football.com has stated many times it's $udget.
    George must know that. He questions all things being equal why he can't see more home games.
    Again, GT, Coach Smith has accepted the way the bones are thrown. We can try.
    If getting back to the Stagg is so hard, we can cling to being mentioned as elite team.
    May be that's de-evolving.


The problem for Linfield is that it hasn't beaten these midwestern opponents in the playoffs and it makes it really hard to justify sending those teams to Linfield when all else is equal:

vs. St. Thomas: Lost in 2015, 2010
vs. UW-Whitewater: Lost in 2014, 2013 (and more)
vs. UW-Oshkosh: Lost at home in 2012

In order to win some of those tiebreakers with these teams, Linfield is going to have to go on the road and beat them, like UWW did when it came to Linfield in 2005. Linfield hasn't beaten any of these teams on the road and they only beat St. Thomas at home in 2009. Linfield lost the homefield advantage in 2010 in a decision even George Thompson doesn't dispute.

On the opposite side, Linfield went to Mary Hardin-Baylor and won in 2014, and then UMHB had to come to Linfield in 2015. There it worked in Linfield's favor, right?

I can't promise this is the committee's thinking, because they surely wouldn't admit to it even if I asked, but there's a decent amount of evidence here to suggest that's the case.
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Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 pm

    Let's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

Bluenote New Year's Resolution. We quote and paste ala MIAC/WIAC and move our pages real fast.

[Foss]

I think everyone understands when d3football.com has stated many times it's $udget.
George must know that. He questions all things being equal why he can't see more home games.
Again, GT, Coach Smith has accepted the way the bones are thrown. We can try.
If getting back to the Stagg is so hard, we can cling to being mentioned as elite team.
May be that's de-evolving.

The problem for Linfield is that it hasn't beaten these midwestern opponents in the playoffs and it makes it really hard to justify sending those teams to Linfield when all else is equal:

vs. St. Thomas: Lost in 2015, 2010
vs. UW-Whitewater: Lost in 2014, 2013 (and more)
vs. UW-Oshkosh: Lost at home in 2012

In order to win some of those tiebreakers with these teams, Linfield is going to have to go on the road and beat them, like UWW did when it came to Linfield in 2005. Linfield hasn't beaten any of these teams on the road and they only beat St. Thomas at home in 2009. Linfield lost the homefield advantage in 2010 in a decision even George Thompson doesn't dispute.

On the opposite side, Linfield went to Mary Hardin-Baylor and won in 2014, and then UMHB had to come to Linfield in 2015. There it worked in Linfield's favor, right?

I can't promise this is the committee's thinking, because they surely wouldn't admit to it even if I asked, but there's a decent amount of evidence here to suggest that's the case.

I agree with that and that's the hump the 'Cats are going to have to overcome.  The program rolled the dice this year in playing at UMHB in the regular season and it didn't work out but I'd rather have the program go for it than play the La Verne, Whittiers, and Redlands of the world in non-conference.

Sorry for the long post, but I've thought a lot about what Pat has said. And my comments are truly out of love for the 'Cats and finding a way to get back to another championship.

I, too, have to agree w/ what Pat said and I think this is something we have to address if we ever want to get back to the Stagg.

First though, I would add that we did handily beat North Central (who I would consider a "Midwestern team" - out of Illinois) in 2012, where we led 30-0, before taking the foot off the gas and just running the clock in order to win. They ended up scoring a couple of TDs, but it was after the game was out of hand.

Now, regarding the East Region - we beaten every team we've ever faced from there (Wesley is considered a South Region team, I believe). Widener, Hampden-Sydney, Cortland & Rowan. And every win has been by double digits, and a couple have been complete blowouts. One a$$ kicking was so bad a certain coach from the opposing team afterwards went into full idiot mode w/ outrageous accusations that will forever tarnish him as a coach. Size has never been a problem when facing these teams. If anything, in addition to being faster, we've also been just as big, or bigger (w/ maybe the exception of that Rowan team at some positions, but we were so much better it didn't matter and blew their doors off).

We can even compete w/ the best from the South Region. Before this year when we ran into likely the greatest UMHB team ever, and either (soon to find out) the best or 2nd best team in the country, we were 4-0 against them. These wins included a 32 point victory, a win on the biggest stage (the Stagg), a win on the road when they were ranked #2, and a win w/ our backup QB after falling behind 21-0, in one of the greatest games and wins in the history of the program. We have also won 4 straight now against a very tough Hardin-Simmons team, including handing them the worst home loss in the program's history (71-21) and 2 of these wins coming on the road. The H-S team we dominated this year (would have won by 20+ if not for 3 missed FGs) was very tough, and almost beat UMHB on the road earlier in the season.

I believe we can compete w/ the strong South Region teams because, like us, they are usually centered around speed, which we have either been able to match or exceed. Until this year when UMHB had the fastest team we've ever seen in some time (and definitely faster than us this season), along w/ one of the greatest Dlines we have ever seen and a great QB/WR combo.

But, like Pat said, it is the Midwestern teams that seem to be our kryptonite when it comes to making it back to the Stagg. It seems to me when we run into the bigger and stronger teams like what STU has put together in recent years, along w/ UWW (man, we HAVE to get a win against them) and UWO, they wear us down and get the W.

It seems to me we must get bigger and stronger on both our O and Dlines if we want to beat the Midwestern teams. Our speed advantage, which we usually have, is not quite enough. We need bigger, stronger bodies in the trenches.

They seem to grow them "bigger" in that part of the country. Which brings me to my question. Are we still getting a good number of kids from Hawaii, especially that play on the O & D lines?

Back in the day, it seemed like we always had a mini pipeline of really good, along w/ big and strong, kids from Hawaii, who often played on the lines. They gave us size and toughness. Do we still get many kids that are from Hawaii that play on our lines? If not, we need to start getting them again. I don't know where else we are going to find the big & physical linemen we need in order to nullify the large, strong & athletic bodies we face and often seem to take their toll on us when playing the big Midwestern teams like STO & UWW.

Aside from the '09 win against STO & '12 win against North Central (both at home), we are 0-7 since 2005 against STO & the top WIAC teams we've faced in the playoffs (2 of them home games). They have been the obstacle that has prevented us from returning to the Stagg. It's just a fact. And something, IMO, we have to address and can't ignore. We almost always have a great QB & WR core, and speed almost everywhere. But when we face the bigger teams from the Midwest, we consistently come up just a bit short. Am I wrong in saying we simply need bigger, and more physical lines to finally beat them? Maybe I am wrong - I don't know, I'm just throwing it out there.

We know we'll at least match, and often have an advantage in speed. If we could just equal, or come close to equaling, their big lines, I believe we could get over the hump. Probably not next year, as we have to do some major rebuilding. But once our kids get some experience and become upperclassmen (like this year's team), I think we'll be back in the mix again. But we will no doubt have to eventually contend w/ a big Midwestern team that will likely once again stand between us and Salem, VA. Will we finally be able to get past them, or will history repeat itself again?

[D O.C.]

and that's why I miss having Foss on the board.

[MonroviaCat]

I agree mostly with what Foss is saying but I would just point out that a majority of those losses to the Midwest schools were games that could have gone either way (OT losses to Oshkosh and St. Thomas had less to do with size/physicality---we literally dropped the ball).  Against Whitewater we've gone toe to toe in nearly every matchup with them.  The only time we really got beat up was last year vs. St. Thomas and we were obviously missing some key players for most of that game.  So---while it would be great to have bigger, more physical guys I think there are some other factors at work as well (and they are not even the same year to year----play calling, ball security, injuries/illnesses to our QB, etc.).  Bottom line is that it is really, really hard to go all the way to and win the Stagg Bowl--only 3 teams have done it in the past 12 years and we're one of them!  But yes--let's do it again and soon!!!!

[CalCat]

I agree mostly with what Foss is saying but I would just point out that a majority of those losses to the Midwest schools were games that could have gone either way (OT losses to Oshkosh and St. Thomas had less to do with size/physicality---we literally dropped the ball).  Against Whitewater we've gone toe to toe in nearly every matchup with them.  The only time we really got beat up was last year vs. St. Thomas and we were obviously missing some key players for most of that game.  So---while it would be great to have bigger, more physical guys I think there are some other factors at work as well (and they are not even the same year to year----play calling, ball security, injuries/illnesses to our QB, etc.).  Bottom line is that it is really, really hard to go all the way to and win the Stagg Bowl--only 3 teams have done it in the past 12 years and we're one of them!  But yes--let's do it again and soon!!!!

I believe there is another challenge we are facing and that is recruiting with both George Fox and Pacific  with new programs now maturing and recruiting from the same pool as the rest of NWC. I think it is really having a negative effect Willamette and has to have created a challenge from at least  a quality of depth perspective for us.

[wildcat11]

I agree mostly with what Foss is saying but I would just point out that a majority of those losses to the Midwest schools were games that could have gone either way (OT losses to Oshkosh and St. Thomas had less to do with size/physicality---we literally dropped the ball).  Against Whitewater we've gone toe to toe in nearly every matchup with them.  The only time we really got beat up was last year vs. St. Thomas and we were obviously missing some key players for most of that game.  So---while it would be great to have bigger, more physical guys I think there are some other factors at work as well (and they are not even the same year to year----play calling, ball security, injuries/illnesses to our QB, etc.).  Bottom line is that it is really, really hard to go all the way to and win the Stagg Bowl--only 3 teams have done it in the past 12 years and we're one of them!  But yes--let's do it again and soon!!!!

I believe there is another challenge we are facing and that is recruiting with both George Fox and Pacific  with new programs now maturing and recruiting from the same pool as the rest of NWC. I think it is really having a negative effect Willamette and has to have created a challenge from at least  a quality of depth perspective for us.

I'll agree but I'm expecting a big recruiting class this year in terms of quality and numbers. I think the staff made some adjustments that may have hurt a little last year but is going to start paying off big this year.

In terms of Willamette...their biggest issues is they lost all of their identity when Speckman left and they dumped the fly.  It was a slow bleed but once Specks guys cycled out of the program, they Bearcats have become steadily worse.

[Foss]

I agree mostly with what Foss is saying but I would just point out that a majority of those losses to the Midwest schools were games that could have gone either way (OT losses to Oshkosh and St. Thomas had less to do with size/physicality---we literally dropped the ball).  Against Whitewater we've gone toe to toe in nearly every matchup with them.  The only time we really got beat up was last year vs. St. Thomas and we were obviously missing some key players for most of that game.  So---while it would be great to have bigger, more physical guys I think there are some other factors at work as well (and they are not even the same year to year----play calling, ball security, injuries/illnesses to our QB, etc.).  Bottom line is that it is really, really hard to go all the way to and win the Stagg Bowl--only 3 teams have done it in the past 12 years and we're one of them!  But yes--let's do it again and soon!!!!

I believe there is another challenge we are facing and that is recruiting with both George Fox and Pacific  with new programs now maturing and recruiting from the same pool as the rest of NWC. I think it is really having a negative effect Willamette and has to have created a challenge from at least  a quality of depth perspective for us.

Thanks D O.C.

That 2OT loss to STU still kills me. But what hurts even worse, for me anyway, was the home loss to UW-O. I believe we were slated to have had home field in the semis had we beat them. The reason that loss hurts more for me is several reasons. One, the loss was at home. Two, we blew a 2 TD+ lead in the 4th on our home field. Three, UW-O wasn't at all a seasoned playoff team (this was UW-O - NOT UW-W, after all), it was like their first or second trip ever to the playoffs.

I believe had we just been able to control the line of scrimmage in the 4th, offensively we could have worked the clock and closed them out. And/or defensively, impose our will, especially the line play, and hold them in check. Instead, they owned the 4th quarter, holding us to 0 points and we gave up more points in the 4th than we had the first 3 quarters combined. Again, I can't help but wonder if the big WIAC lines finally got to us and started to wear us down. I don't know how else to explain how we lost that game when we had them down by more than 2 TDs in the 4th and had the game at the Catdome.

I agree all but last year's game against STU have been close and sometimes could have went either way. And even last year, w/ a healthy Riddle, that's different ball game, even on the road. If we would have had a our healthy dual thread Riddle (as WC11 said, the 2nd greatest QB in program history) AND home field, that really could have swayed things. But, in the end, regardless of what he hoped for, it was a convincing 21 point defeat.

So, although we've been so close in many of these games, the unfortunate truth is that since 2010 against STU and since 2005 against the top WIAC teams, we're, as mentioned, 0 for 7 in these playoff games. That is too many times for there not to be some kind of core reason(s) for it.

Chris Berman, although he gets on my nerves, and Tom Jackson have a saying on their pre game football shows in regards to things that happen in football. Their "mantra" if you will is:

If it happens.....

Once - it's a mistake
Twice - it's a trend
Three times - it's a problem

I don't know what 7 straight times is. But it is an inconvenient truth that can't be ignored, IMO, and one that has prevented us from getting back to the Stagg oh so many times now. Hopefully we will finally get over that hump. I know we have the coaches and schemes to do it, along w/ kids that buy into the program and give it there all. I am truly grateful we are a program that can consistently even get to play in these important games against other D3 elites (yes I said "other," because we are no doubt elite). We just need to break through. We have come so close so many times since our Stagg Bowl win I think at times we could almost taste getting to experience that again.

[D O.C.]

I, like Foss, have the St. T fumble rumble around in my brain every fall.
I have to give credit to OWO for taking advantage of what we gave them. They did have a great (great) running back and their Qb caught his stride.
I'm looking to reload and have to work harder.
I'm not sure how much the new AD search will affect sports programs.

[wildcat11]

I'm not sure how much the new AD search will affect sports programs.

This will be a BIG deal. 

[D O.C.]

Congratulations to Sam for being the AFCA #1 guy.

[wildcat11]

and Nnabue and KJ for receiving AFCA honors as well. 

*still don't know how Reed Peterson wasn't a 1st team All-NWC guy....criminal.

[MonroviaCat]

I'm not sure how much the new AD search will affect sports programs.

This will be a BIG deal.

Anybody know where things stand on this currently?

[D O.C.]

Some local banter with names but to project at this time would be like trying to describe the Crusader - Raider game before it's played.
Now, if you'd like to start a pickems....