FB: Northwest Conference

[d-train]

D-Train - Fellow former Lute player here, 80-84.  

Welcome!

Hatchetman's prediction includes S.Westy on the bubble for keeping the coaching job.  Have you heard any rumblings to that effect?

No, but the Administration was somewhat tempted to go another direction when Frosty retired - and the first losing season in decades certainly doesn't help things. Just because he's a Westering doesn't mean he's untouchable. But I'd be very suprised if something like that happens. There is a fairly strong push to begin an on-campus stadium fund-raising campaign. Frosty is a key figure in the effort, but he'd be very offended if they cut Scott loose and they'd run the risk of the whole thing falling apart.

One thing that I think is true is that PLU needs to do a much better job recruiting.  Frosty was such a unique personality that players around the NW (and beyond) nearly recruited themselves to PLU. While the program is still unique, the personality leading it is much more aloof. Much of the natural draw just isn't there anymore and the coaches need to be out 'selling' high schoolers on the program in ways Frosty never had to.

[d-train]

...although my bitterness of last years debacle will add some more points to Oxy's score.

Not to start anything, but you come off a little bitter overall: "coaching and recruiting blunders of Scott Westering", "their crappy field with their crappy referees", and "last years debacle (L&C's half season)". You were given the unique opportunity to attend a top-notch university and compete in the NWC. I would think you'd reflect on that with a bit more appreciation and less pettiness. Maybe in a few more years?

[fbgcat]

I remember a 1984 Wildcat team that didn't have a sure starting quarterback at the start of the season.  As we all know, that team went on to win it all. 

WOSC scares me, too.   Playing at home is going to be a big plus for the Wildcats.  WOSC has got to have a big chip on their shoulders.  With new personel and a new(ish) coaching staff, I hope the Cats can overcome. 

I say 17-14 Linfield.

[rockcat]

I remember a 1984 Wildcat team that didn't have a sure starting quarterback at the start of the season.  As we all know, that team went on to win it all. 

WOSC scares me, too.   Playing at home is going to be a big plus for the Wildcats.  WOSC has got to have a big chip on their shoulders.  With new personel and a new(ish) coaching staff, I hope the Cats can overcome. 

I say 17-14 Linfield.

I believe it is WOU now..   I mean, how confusing is it?  It isn't like they've changed names a dozen times or anything.

My father in law is big alum guy at WOU.  I'm going to talk to him about starting a campaign to change the name back to Monmouth Normal. 

[speedybigboy]

D-Train - Fellow former Lute player here, 80-84.  

One thing that I think is true is that PLU needs to do a much better job recruiting.  Frosty was such a unique personality that players around the NW (and beyond) nearly recruited themselves to PLU. While the program is still unique, the personality leading it is much more aloof. Much of the natural draw just isn't there anymore and the coaches need to be out 'selling' high schoolers on the program in ways Frosty never had to.

Okay, thanks D-Train.

How do d3 schools recruit?  no scholarships right?  no financial aid of any kind based on athletics?  Does the NAIA allow some sort of financial aid/scholarship to athletes, and if so does that hinder recruiting for d3 schools located near NAIA schools.  What does the d3 coach say to the recruit "I know we're really expensive but we win alot so you should come to our school"??

[Sabretooth Tiger]

D-Train - Fellow former Lute player here, 80-84.  

One thing that I think is true is that PLU needs to do a much better job recruiting.  Frosty was such a unique personality that players around the NW (and beyond) nearly recruited themselves to PLU. While the program is still unique, the personality leading it is much more aloof. Much of the natural draw just isn't there anymore and the coaches need to be out 'selling' high schoolers on the program in ways Frosty never had to.

Okay, thanks D-Train.

How do d3 schools recruit?  no scholarships right?  no financial aid of any kind based on athletics?  Does the NAIA allow some sort of financial aid/scholarship to athletes, and if so does that hinder recruiting for d3 schools located near NAIA schools.  What does the d3 coach say to the recruit "I know we're really expensive but we win alot so you should come to our school"??

D3 schools recruit based on quality of education, chance to play, small school environment (except in the WIAC).

NAIA schools are able to offer athletic scholarships, but not at the rate that DI or DII schools do.

tooth

[hatchetman75]

...although my bitterness of last years debacle will add some more points to Oxy's score.

Not to start anything, but you come off a little bitter overall: "coaching and recruiting blunders of Scott Westering", "their crappy field with their crappy referees", and "last years debacle (L&C's half season)". You were given the unique opportunity to attend a top-notch university and compete in the NWC. I would think you'd reflect on that with a bit more appreciation and less pettiness. Maybe in a few more years?

No, I'm not bitter about the NWC as a whole. Far from it in fact. The NWC is a "conference of champions" and I respect every team in it.  Even the bitter rivals of my school, the Lutes.  However, I won't pull punches when it comes to my take on things. You have your opinions, and I have my own.

Anyway, I'll take a moment to explain my comments.

I've never been a fan of Coach S. Westering.  His father was an exceptional coach, but when I heard that the school had hired Scott as head coach, I was a bit taken aback.  Honestly, PLU's football program has fallen on hard times.  The UPS game last year was evidence to that.  UPS wasn't consistently driving the ball, and yet they still managed to beat the Lutes.  Scott Westering strikes me as a man who just filled his father's shoes.  

That, and I honestly don't like the philosophy behind the PLU football team. Being a UPS alum only amplifies that fact, as most UPS alum can testify too. Frosty made it work, but Scott seems to be doing it half-heartedly, and I can't respect a man who does that.  Either buy into your father's system, or find your own way of doing things.

Even more recently, I've heard that the entire sports program had fallen onto bad times. I've talked with several track coaches who had coached at PLU for years and left angrier than I'd seen any coach who had voluntarily left a program. This certainly cannot help the PLU sports programs, and Scott has got to be feeling even more pressure to excel than he had in the past.

Moving on....

My comments about WOU's field and the referees there (not an NWC school, mind you, but I'll still explain), spring from my attendance at the UPS v. WOU game last year.  It was a rainy game, as most November games on the west coast typically are, and after the first quarter, the field had become a quagmire. Thus, the crappy field statement.  

Now, UPS had an equally crappy field many years ago before Peyton Field was planted.  It was lovingly called, "The Swamp" by many a UPS and opposing player.  It was crappy.

The crappy referee comment only comes about because of the amount of late-hits and unsportsman-like penalties I saw during the WOU game. The Wolves played dirty, and got away with it.  Thus, crappy officiating.


Finally...

I think many NWC posters can agree that what LC did last year was incredibly wrong. If they believed that they couldn't field a team, why not simply cancel the schedule, and allow some of the other NWC teams to pick up the games that LC gave up.  

Not only did the NWC have to scramble for games to play, but many teams felt cheated out of games because they could not justify a long road trip. Linfield, Willamete, and Whitworth suffered this problem, and there were some folks who believed the Pirates missed the playoffs because they had not played a conference opponent and therefore did not have the strength of schedule they needed to make the playoffs.



*breaths*


There you go d-train.  I'm not bitter.  Just honest.

[rockcat]

In certain parts of the country there isn't much competition between d3 and NAIA.  NAIA is kind of the incredible shrinking athletic organization.  The upper midwest and socal probably have some good competition but the population, especially in California is big enough to support both easily.  I would be suprised if any NWC school ever seriously recruits against an NAIA in football because there aren't any NAIA football schools in the region any more (outside of Carroll if you want to include Montana in the NW).  It seems like in some areas there is either one or the other but not both.

In general there is much to sell against NAIA.  As tooth said, the big one is quality of education.  NAIA's are often just as small as d3's but may be weaker academically.  I know that there are many NAIA's who give athletic scholarships simply to keep enrollment up because they are financially unstable institutions.  For those schools it is better to give half an athletic scholarship to (x) number of students and get half tuition+room and board than to not have those students at all.  For many schools it definitely becomes a business decision whether to compete at d3 or NAIA.

[d-train]

speedybigboy,

Linfield doesn't have scholarships either - and they pulled 70+ new players into camp this fall. Last I checked, they weren't much cheaper (just more successful recently).

Yes, NAIA's can offer scholarships (as well as WWU and CWU in D-2). I think the two Washington schools are landing a few of the kids that PLU used to get. But a lot of Olympia-to-Everett kids are heading to Linfield as well. Linfield battles WOU and SOU for some guys, but they most often win those battles.

The PLU coaches need to be out there promoting the program. Talking about the personal development and the unique experience. They need to get the talented guys who were thinking of hanging it up since they didn't land a I-AA scholarship (or whatever). They need to get guys to at least apply to the school to see what the financial aid department can do for them. For some 'needy' student-althetes, PLU may not actually cost that much more.

They need to be out there selling the university as well, the graduate school acceptance rates and job placement rates of the alumni. They should have an inside angle on most PacNW Lutherans. They have a network of high school coaches that should be helping if the right relationships have been maintained. PLU also has an Army ROTC program which paid every dime of a few of the guys I played with.

[d-train]

Hatchman75,

Based on your follow-up post, let me retract my statement about you seeming 'bitter'. You explained yourself well even as I put you on the spot. I disagree with some of your perspectives on S.Westy and the Pio's, but that's beside the point. I hope you continue to stick around the board and offer your thoughts. Karma to you.

[rockcat]

My experience as a former admissions counselor at a NWC school (not Linfield or PLU) showed me exactly what kind of financial aid PLU gave out.  It was without a doubt the best in the conference.  Linfield and Whitworth give out a lot but not as much as PLU.  The same kids financial aid to PLU would probably be at least a few thousand less than at the other schools in the conference.  That is quite a recruiting tool for those looking at NWC schools.

[D O.C.]

The crappy referee comment only comes about because of the amount of late-hits and unsportsman-like penalties I saw during the WOU game. The Wolves played dirty, and got away with it.  Thus, crappy officiating.

In a way that is good to hear from another school because this board HAS been dominated by LINFIELD and when the 'Cats continually say such things it almost starts to sound like whining-even tho' winning.

d-train....how you doin'? There is a very (lately - kind of like LINFIELD,eh?) successful Orange Lutheran High School in So Cal.  I would think PLU would be in a tent in the parking lot.  Are there many Lutheran high schools in the NW now? Seems like every church in So Cal has a school attached nowadays but high schools are another thing.

[hatchetman75]

Hatchman75,

Based on your follow-up post, let me retract my statement about you seeming 'bitter'. You explained yourself well even as I put you on the spot. I disagree with some of your perspectives on S.Westy and the Pio's, but that's beside the point. I hope you continue to stick around the board and offer your thoughts. Karma to you.

Thanks. Even though I haven't been posting long, I have followed the boards for some time. I must admit that one of my UPS alumni didn't make a good impression on anyone here, and I understand if there is still some lingering doubts about the quality people that come out of the Logger program. 

I'm guessing it will only continue to get better as the current run of Logger success allows Logger alum to speak without that "bitter" disregard for others.  Thanks again d-train, and I look forward to "Tacoma Bowl 2006".

[hatchetman75]

The crappy referee comment only comes about because of the amount of late-hits and unsportsman-like penalties I saw during the WOU game. The Wolves played dirty, and got away with it.  Thus, crappy officiating.

In a way that is good to hear from another school because this board HAS been dominated by LINFIELD and when the 'Cats continually say such things it almost starts to sound like whining-even tho' winning.

d-train....how you doin'? There is a very (lately - kind of like LINFIELD,eh?) successful Orange Lutheran High School in So Cal.  I would think PLU would be in a tent in the parking lot.  Are there many Lutheran high schools in the NW now? Seems like every church in So Cal has a school attached nowadays but high schools are another thing.

Yeah, I saw the Linfield v. WOU game last year. The UPS game was just as ugly, although it would have been worse if we would have played in the middle of the season, I suspect.

[d-train]

d-train....how you doin'? There is a very (lately - kind of like LINFIELD,eh?) successful Orange Lutheran High School in So Cal.  I would think PLU would be in a tent in the parking lot.  Are there many Lutheran high schools in the NW now? Seems like every church in So Cal has a school attached nowadays but high schools are another thing.

I don't know of all that many Lutheran high schools. But between Portland and Bellingham there are countless Lutheran churches. It's that Norse influence that's been around for a few centuries (and what led to the founding of PLU in the first place).