FB: Northwest Conference

[Bubs1856]

If I remember correctly also, NAIA "Talent Grants" (scholarships) were also only given on a financial aid need basis.  If you didn't qualify for financial aid you weren't eligible for a Talent Grant.  Things may have changed or perhaps I misunderstood but believe that to be the case.

[wildcat11]

Nice piece on Linfield.edu/sports on Linfield Rover: Cam Rodgers

Wildcat Sportlight: Cam Rodgers

[speedybigboy]

Rockcat - I can't buy the d3 schools are academically superior to naia schools.  Did PLU and Linfield get academically better when we switched?  Also, specifically in the NW, isn't Linfield competing with SOU (NAIA), and what happened to OIT's program, are they NAIA still.

My experience as a former admissions counselor at a NWC school (not Linfield or PLU) showed me exactly what kind of financial aid PLU gave out.  It was without a doubt the best in the conference.  Linfield and Whitworth give out a lot but not as much as PLU.  The same kids financial aid to PLU would probably be at least a few thousand less than at the other schools in the conference.  That is quite a recruiting tool for those looking at NWC schools.

You got me confused there but I assume you meant the final cost to attend PLU was lower because of the financial aid PLU was giving out.  Is that past tense, as in when we were all NAIA, or still the case.

Actually I'm thinking what D-train alluded to, specifically when Western & Central Washington went D2, PLU started losing a significant number of players to them because of the scholarship issue.  But that's coming from 1500 miles away with virtually no connection to the University for 2 decades.

[Catville Commissioner Elect]

Welcome to all the new posters on the NWC Board and those that have not posted in quite some time.  I agree that the majority of the posts are from Linfield backers and a couple of PLU, Whitworth, and UPS backers, but I hope more non Cat fans start posting from other NWC schools.  For the most part I feel all posters do a great job although at times some Linfield and other school posters can get a little obsessed with their opinions and forget the purpose of the board.  

That being said, a lot of talk on the board lately has been about the NWC teams and  how good they are or are not.  If you look at the NWC top to bottom, there are several teams each year that are play-off caliber but since it seldom happens that the NWC gets 2 spots and will probably never get 3 spots, someone has to be left out as Linfield learned when PLU and Whitworth were selected a few year back.  

I think a good indicator of the overall strength of the NWC can be seen on the playoff winning percentages by league.  The OAC is first and the NWC 2nd.  If you look at the number of playoff games and the length of time that each conference has been a D3 affiliate eligable for the playoffs, the OAC has 15 more play off games as D3 then the NWC  has.  Other than the Mid Atlantic and New Jersey Athletic Conference many of the East Region leagues are very weak with a fairly poor playoff history as the last few years has shown in the playoffs.  

I am quite positive that if the NWC had been in D3 longer, had an automatic qualifier, and more teams selected for the playoffs, the real power of the NWC would be evident.  With UPS continuing to get better, Whitworths continuing success, Willamettes mostly good success, and of course Linfield I would think that the majority of the NWC teams would beat the majority of the Eastern Region teams any day of the week.  

One issue that is bugging me is, if I understand it correctly, is how games between teams in the West and South Regions will be counted as in-region games.  This to me is a way to ensure that the weaker East Region will continue to get more non-deserved playoff berths.  In order to get games top caliber teams such as Linfield, Willamette, the MIAC, and the WIAC teams need to do extensive traveling to even schedule games such as the case with Linfield going to Hardin-Simmons, Wisconsin- Stevens Point going to the same place, etc, etc. etc.  which will mean that some of the best teams in the nation will not make it to the playoffs because they are playing non league games against only the best D3 and even D2 teams.  What ever happened to selecting the BEST 32 teams for the playoffs regardless of region.

Maybe we need a little formal strength of schedule figured into the play off selection so teams such as those mentioned above do not get penalized for playing the top caliber teams and teams out of division in the pre-season.  Now if I don't have it right or don't understand I am sure LBC or others will straighten me right out and believe it or not I won't take objection to it either!

[ClassicCat]

Hatchetman, as far as I'm concerned, to you and all others, as long as you're honest, you can speak your peace. Provoking someone only stirs the pot and livens the discussion. I know absolutely nothing about PLU, but I can only address Linfield .

When I was a Cat, we had terrible facilities, but yet we were successful. As a NAIA school then, no one received scholarships, only grant-in-aids for those who qualified. Sometimes part-time jobs were available.

There was a nucleus of Linfield grads in coaching that insprired their athletes to attend Linfield, but the Cats in coaching ranks grew tremendously with my graduating class.

All of us have our reasons for choosing a school. In my case it was 1) visiting the campus, 2) sitting down and talking one-on one with a GREAT football coach, and 3) hangin out with football players and listening in awe. God that was inspiring!

As I posted earlier, I was really impressed with the quality of recruits choosing to come to Linfield. Karma to Clyde Powell, an old friend, for doing a great job coordinating recruiting. However, we all know it's a team effort to get the best to Linfield. Everybody on campus in some way or form, recruits. We, the alumni recruit. The commonality - we "love" our school. As you grow olders, you'll know what I mean. Can that be said of other schools?

It can only be said, a poor athletic program does not fill its stadium with alumni and athletic supporters.

TWENTY SEVEN HOURS TO SATURDAY NIGHT FEVER!!! Go CATS!

[Sabretooth Tiger]

Rockcat - I can't buy the d3 schools are academically superior to naia schools.  Did PLU and Linfield get academically better when we switched? 

Look at DIII v. NAIA overall.  In DIII you have the NESCAC conference which is simply top flight.  In the SCIAC you have Claremont, Pomona and the other Claremont Colleges, Occidental and w/o football, Cal Tech.  In the NWC you have Lewis & Clark and Willamette as well as Whitman (w/o football . . . no offense intended to the 'Cats)

Other top DIII academic schools include Colorado College, Macalester, Grinnell (I think) and others too numerous to mention . . .

Look at the Newsweek top 50 national small liberal arts colleges and you find DIII . . . not NAIA.

tooth

[rockcat]

The NAIA of 2006 is not the NAIA of ten years ago or longer.  It is shrinking dramatically.  Take a look at the schools out there who are still NAIA and compare them to the academic profile of d3 schools.  The NAIA's are generally not as strong.  Not always the case but more often than not.  Like I said, many NAIA's are financially unstable.  Albertson's in Idaho is a perfect example (though no football).  Right now they have a dorm that was built like five years ago that still has the plastic on the furniture.  Without bodies on campus they will go under.  The last time they were up for accreditation they almost lost it which would make the degrees worth about as much as $3 bill. 

My admission experience ended just a year ago.  The entire time was after the move to d3.  My professional experience then and since has given me some insight to who different institutions are academically. 

To clarify my PLU financial aid statement what I was saying was that a kid who applies to multiple NWC schools will probably get more financial aid from PLU, thus making it the least expensive of the group.  They give HUGE academic scholarships out and some mysterious "Leadership" scholarship with an unclear definition that often went to athletic recruits (not implying anything, they were often very good leaders!).   The school I worked at would often be $10,000 per year more than PLU after financial aid went out.  Every college plays the financial aid game a little differently.  Again, its a business.

Linfield will compete with SOU and some others but much more often against Willamette, the other NWC schools and WOU. 

Of course a d3 will lose some athletes to d2 CWU and WWU but that is why d3's recruit big.  You can't lock a kid in with a scholarship so you recruit high numbers knowing that you will lose some along the way.  Teams that haven't figured that out (and many haven't) will definitely struggle with recruiting.

[d-train]

If I remember correctly also, NAIA "Talent Grants" (scholarships) were also only given on a financial aid need basis.  If you didn't qualify for financial aid you weren't eligible for a Talent Grant.  Things may have changed or perhaps I misunderstood but believe that to be the case.

NAIA football had two divisions going for quite a while. As I understood it NAIA D-I could give pure scholarships and D-II was more restricted to the 'talent grants' (at least the NWC schools were). The current state of NAIA has two divisions for basketball (and maybe some other sports), but only one football division. Some schools are competing with very little scholarship money (or possibly in conferences that don't allow it), but others (like Carroll College) are giving out quite a bit. Interesting, many of the former NAIA D-I powers are now NCAA D-2, while the former NAIA members in NCAA D-3 tended to come from the NAIA D-II.

[speedybigboy]

Rockcat - I can't buy the d3 schools are academically superior to naia schools.  Did PLU and Linfield get academically better when we switched? 

Look at DIII v. NAIA overall.  In DIII you have the NESCAC conference which is simply top flight.  In the SCIAC you have Claremont, Pomona and the other Claremont Colleges, Occidental and w/o football, Cal Tech.  In the NWC you have Lewis & Clark and Willamette as well as Whitman (w/o football . . . no offense intended to the 'Cats)

Other top DIII academic schools include Colorado College, Macalester, Grinnell (I think) and others too numerous to mention . . .

Look at the Newsweek top 50 national small liberal arts colleges and you find DIII . . . not NAIA.

tooth

Tooth,

I might have to get out my wallet and "buy" rockcats' statement.  I did a quick search like you indicated and you are correct Newsweeks ratings are filled with d3 schools.  Academic quality of Institutions is not something I keep up on.  On the face of it rockcats statement seemed illogical.

Topcat1,

What is the "purpose" of the board?

Rockcat,

Linfield's battle with Willamette will at least be on equal footing.  WOU is d2 though right? and if they get their program on a steady winning track it'll be had to compete with them for the slightly below D1 player.  So beating them this week will help with that!

I better get back to work.  Got a big High School game I'd like to get to tonight.

[rockcat]

speedy,

The WOU game surely is a big game for recruiting.  However, I think a lot of non D1 athletes want to go to a place they can win.  If financial aid comes through and makes it close to what it would be at a scholarship level school they will often go to the place they will win.  I know that's what happened with myself.  Also, from what I understand WOU doesn't fund their athletics department to the fully D2 capability.  A bird once told me that they "are playing at D2 with NAIA money."

Footing is never truly equal.  Each place as weaknesses and advantages.  Willamette surely has cards they'll play against Linfield and vice versa.  That's why having somebody in the program who is good at recruiting is so important.

[Lever Street]

Best of luck to Linfield and the entire NWC this season.

Go CATS!

[Tuxguy]

WOW.........

Look what happens when I get busy and can't keep a watch on you guys 

3-4 pages of football talk..........Welcome to all the new guys! Wish I had some great philosophical answer to  the questions posed,    but not enough time. Got to get my Tailgate supplies ready! Priorities  they call IT! 

I think It's going to be a Good game tomorrow, But the Wolves still have a ways to go!!!    Coach Smith will have Cats  ready to go!  By the second half I predict the Cats will be fine tuned and score big.    Cats 44 Wolves 17  I see big things from our "D" tomorrow.
See everyone at the Game. 

                                               GO WILDCATS
                                         LEAVE NO DOUBT '06

[Orca Jr.]

Alright, last post before game time.  Strap it up and bring the hit stick 'Cats, time to prove once again why we are the class of the west.
Let it Rain Baby!!!

[swede]

I for one appreciate hearing hatchetman's logger reports.  The one problem with us Cat Fans being....uhm.....rather dominant on this board is we miss out on some of the insight on the competition.  Instead, a lot of the posters from other schools come on to talk a little trash and then melt away.  I like to hear substance about the other teams in the NWC!  Karma to hatchetman!

More karma going to the hatchetman! It is indeed refreshing to hear the insight of someone other than a cat poster without having to put up with
a bunch of trash talking.  

[swede]

I'll get in on this prediction stuff too.  I think you are both on the right track but my prediction will be even less popular than MonroviaCat's.  An improving WOU keeps it close in the first half as some inexperienced Cats take a little time to get going before pulling away. 
Cats-31
Wolves-17

Of course I could be playing it safe as purple frisbees might reign supreme from kickoff with the Cats droppin' 50+ on Monmouth Normal. 

Have fun all who can make it to the Dome.  I'm jealous!

I was thinking along the same line. The 'cats will try and establish the run first and will have some success but the wolves will stay close at halftime.
early in the 3rd Linfield will go primarily with the pass and establish a 14 pt. lead. The D ( especially the corners) will have it's work cut out.
Linfield-29
WOU-   21